The Price of a Name, and Diminishing Returns

[alan0354]

Not sure what to make of your writings?

You are willing to buy expensive things....Rolex watches, cars.
$700 is nothing to you.....

You practice self-defense, and it's one of your reasons for carrying a knife.

45-90 dollars is what you think is best for you......

You trust your life with a $45 knife???
When money is clearly not a factor?

(Me personally) Idc what time it is?
I'll wear a timex, and carry that 300+ dollar knife! Thank you.

For clarity, I address another just if not more important function of a knife.....Self defense. I mainly talking about folding knife that can conceal carry.

In my opinion, there are a lot of knives that are NOT FIT for self defense or knife fight. To use for knife fight and self defense, one feature is VERY IMPORTANT as shown in picture:


The FLIPPER TAP is very important. In knife fight or SD, you not only do slashing, you do SHANKING(THRUSTING). This TAP shown by RED ARROW is very important to prevent the knife from being shoved back into your hand. You cut yourself really bad if the knife get shoved back into your hands. The TAP is absolutely vital to stop the knife from being shoved back. Look at this knife below, it's is USELESS in my book and dangerous for fighting and SD:
peoms for friends

You can see a lot of very expensive knives don't have the TAP, they are not good for SD purpose.

Get a rubber knife with no TAP, do combination of slashing and shanking and you can see. When in the middle of slashing/shanking, you might forget to squeeze the knife before you shank and it will work back into your hand. THAT'S DANGEROUS.

 

[DMG]

Depends on the brand. Some people will buy a Benchmade no matter what they charge, they have that kind of name power.

Most of benchmade's knives are pretty reasonably priced.

$500+ knives and knives that are essentiallypocket jewelry or man accessories are more in line with the op's query.

 

[Danke42]

Nothin' beats the hobo life, Stabbin' folks with my hobo knife.

 

[Knives&Lint]

To me, the price of diminishing returns for a name comes with the aftermarket prices after they are snatched up at retail. I have no problem with the list prices of CRK, Hinderer, Les George, etc. Sure, those could (and do) serve some as mere pocket jewelry and Instagram props, but they can (and do) serve many as hard use tools by enthusiasts who enjoy and appreciate using high quality tools.

Where I really see diminishing returns for me personally is when the knives from the high-volume major brands creep into the $250-300+ range. At those prices I'd rather put my money towards a purchase from companies like the ones listed above. To be clear, when I refer to diminishing returns in this regard I am referring to diminishment in my own enjoyment of ownership as an enthusiast, not simply as a pure cutting tool. Frankly, I don't think I'd be here if that was all I cared about.

 

[DocJD]

how it made you feel to

...have foolishly overpaid !

The pain gradually fades , but never goes away .

 

[Crag the Brewer]

That's a "Tracker Dan".

Idk his brand name, I'll have to look him up?

I'm a recent Maker during the last few years, I don't think I've seen others talk?
I'm guessing there is an unwritten rule about talking about Others? I assume.

I only know, what I know, but I have a different perspective on knife costs, as I know quite a bit on how they are generally made.....
Some, I'm surprised at the high cost, and some maker's don't charge enough.

It's a very interesting topic, with no clear answers.
We are paying for both opinions, and facts.

 

[Spillproof]

I'm a pipemaker (among other things).
You can buy a decent factory pipe for $120.
Or you can buy an artisan pipe up to several thousand dollars.

The cost of making a pipe "with the best materials available" (not including tooling or screw-ups) is around $65. They sell for $300+. The difference between a very well-made $500 artisan pipe and a $10k artisan pipe is the name of the maker, and maybe the finish.

Same with knives.
If you're spending more than around $300 you're paying for more than a functional knife. If you're paying for materials that do not help the knife work (i.e. Ticarta Thumb Studs) you're buying art. Nothing wrong with any approach- we all have different means and rationales.

I'm primarily a User of knives, not a collector. The things I think are ridiculous about collecting knives absolutely apply to me collecting pipes - but it's totally not the same!
(It is exactly the same)

 

[Danny Linguini]

Part of what contributes to the value of a name is beyond the quality of the knife itself. Reputation, particularly for customer service and how well a company (or maker) stands behind their product, goes a very long way in building brand loyalty, and with it, the price one would be willing to pay for one brand over another for an otherwise similar product.

 

[SomebodySomewhere]

I'm a pipemaker.
You can buy a decent factory pipe for $120.
Or you can buy an artisan pipe up to several thousand dollars.

The cost of making a pipe "with the best materials available" (not including tooling or screw-ups) is around $65. They sell for $300+. The difference between a very well-made $500 artisan pipe and a $10k artisan pipe is the name of the maker, and maybe the finish.

Same with knives.
If you're spending more than around $300 you're paying for more than a knife. If you're paying for materials that do not help the knife work (i.e. Ticarta Thimb Studs) you're buying art. Nothing wrong with any approach- we all have different means and rationales.

I'm primarily a User of knives, not a collector. The things I think are ridiculous about collecting knives absolutely apply to me collecting pipes - but it's totally not the same!
(It is exactly the same)

Lots of good points here. I do think there’s a functional element to knives that has to factor in there — like, the tolerances in machining, the discarding of knives that would sell fine for other brands, the consistent action of opening and closing, etc. I definitely think there’s still a point where it’s beyond even the materials, and it’s also true that a perfectly machined knife really doesn’t do a lot that a practically disposable knife doesn’t, but there’s a sweet spot where knives are noticeably better made apart from their materials. I’d like to have enough money and time to know where that limit is, but as yet, I have not. Though I’ve seen enough of the bottom end to know there are better and worse knives.

 

[DavidABQ]

I suspect that for the majority of members here pockets knives, expensive ones at least, are status symbols or pocket jewelry. If I am going to be honest, my cutting chores can easily be carried out with an inexpensive knife like something from Buck knives. I don't really need the latest and greatest in blade steel or exotic handle materials. I spend money on knives that appeal to me in some way but I don't need anymore knives nor expensive one to fit my needs. It is something more like a status symbol anymore.

 

[DMG]

For clarity, I address another just if not more important function of a knife.....Self defense. I mainly talking about folding knife that can conceal carry.

In my opinion, there are a lot of knives that are NOT FIT for self defense or knife fight. To use for knife fight and self defense, one feature is VERY IMPORTANT as shown in picture:


The FLIPPER TAP is very important. In knife fight or SD, you not only do slashing, you do SHANKING(THRUSTING). This TAP shown by RED ARROW is very important to prevent the knife from being shoved back into your hand. You cut yourself really bad if the knife get shoved back into your hands. The TAP is absolutely vital to stop the knife from being shoved back. Look at this knife below, it's is USELESS in my book and dangerous for fighting and SD:
peoms for friends

You can see a lot of very expensive knives don't have the TAP, they are not good for SD purpose.

Get a rubber knife with no TAP, do combination of slashing and shanking and you can see. When in the middle of slashing/shanking, you might forget to squeeze the knife before you shank and it will work back into your hand. THAT'S DANGEROUS.

I am not a knife fighter wnd you are not a knife fightrr but i can tell you with certainty that forgetting to hold the knife firmly when stabbing will be a problem, flipper tab or no flipper tab. It will be worse when your hands are swesty or bloody.

 

[craytab]

For regular production knives I don't think so. There is a huge selection at different price levels.

As soon as you hit mid techs and customs and that sort of Instagram clout stuff there's no doubt that some names that command huge prices with ridiculous blades that would be tossed in the trash if they didn't have one of those names.

$995 for some kydex a shoelace and a 1.25" edge.

That example is so unfair lol.

 

[WedgeAntilles]

Story also plays a large part of the name. Koenig fans have read and know Bill's story, and the rebound from tragedy that is that brand. For CRK, many of us have watched the BHQ documentary on YouTube of CRK and heard the words of Chris that he wanted us to have something reliable in our pocket for the next 20 years. The maker's story and the stories from satisfied customers are vital to it all. And it cuts both ways. Story is also why many wouldn't shell out for a Strider, in spite of materials and build quality .

 

[alan0354]

I am not a knife fighter wnd you are not a knife fightrr but i can tell you with certainty that forgetting to hold the knife firmly when stabbing will be a problem, flipper tab or no flipper tab. It will be worse when your hands are swesty or bloody.

It's a lot worst if there's no flipper tap. You try practicing on a heavy bag? Try it first, don't just talk. I practice, not just carry. You DO NOT carry for self defense without actually practicing CONSISTENTLY for a while.

It's easy to say "I will hold it tight before shanking". Try doing combination in good speed, slashing and shanking, you likely forget to squeeze one time. That's all it takes.

Don't sit back and talk.

 

[Hackenslash]

It's a lot worst if there's no flipper tap. You try practicing on a heavy bag? Try it first, don't just talk. I practice, not just carry. You DO NOT carry for self defense without actually practicing CONSISTENTLY for a while.

It's easy to say "I will hold it tight before shanking". Try doing combination in good speed, slashing and shanking, you likely forget to squeeze one time. That's all it takes.

Don't sit back and talk.

Are you lecturing us about knives while continuing to mis-name their parts?

Lots of folding knives have been successfully used for stabbing before the comparatively recent development of flipper knives with a flipper “TAB”.

Thanks for your contributions though.

 

[Danke42]

Are you lecturing us about knives while continuing to mis-name their parts?

Lots of folding knives have been successfully used for stabbing before the comparatively recent development of flipper knives with a flipper “TAB”.

Thanks for your contributions though.

Knives with a flipper tap cost 83% less so you know you're not spending extra for "name".

 

[strategy9]

It's a business, so of course profit is part of the equation. If people are willing to pay a little bit more, then a maker is foolish not to charge a little more.

 

[amunderdog]

I agree. Find the Spyderco that checks your boxes and pay what they are asking.
The after market support is also expansive.

 

[alan0354]

Are you lecturing us about knives while continuing to mis-name their parts?

Lots of folding knives have been successfully used for stabbing before the comparatively recent development of flipper knives with a flipper “TAB”.

Thanks for your contributions though.

No, just practical science. Folding knives as so simple and primitive it's barely above stone age. Who cares about the terms as long as people know what I mean. It's not even worth study deep into folding knives.

Obviously a lot of those that design folding knives have NO engineering background judging from the design. You cannot tell whether the pivot point is the weak point of knives with BALL BEARINGS until you actually open the knife up. The knife can look very rugged tactical/survival knife with thick and wide blade. The critical thickness of the blade at the pivot can be as thin as 0.03"!!! They thin it out to fit the bearings without thinking. Then there's the quite popular brand "OFF_GRID" knife. I bought the baby Rhino with ball bearings. The pivot part is beefy as it should be. Then I bought another bigger one and open up. They thin out on the side plate to PAPER THIN on both sides to fit the bearings!!! HOW STUPID ARE THEY. Even pivot point should not be the most stressed point, but thin like that, you can develop cracks during the processing of milling!!!

I watch so many folding knives disassembly on youtube and look at the pivot part. Most are very thin like 0.03" to 0.04". It's so easy to do it right and OBVIOUSLY the designers has NO BASIC COMMON SENSE. You really have to buy, open and judge, not by the name, but by looking at it.

I finally gave up and only buy knives with FB washers.

I am an engineer, so don't tell me whether I know about basic simple stuffs like this. Folding knives are so simple!!!

 

[alan0354]

Lots of folding knives have been successfully used for stabbing before the comparatively recent development of flipper knives with a flipper “TAB”.

It's good that they developed the flipper tab. It's safer. You practice knife fight on heavy kicking bag? Try it, try combination of slashing and shanking. all it takes is one time out of concentration and forget to squeeze and you might injure yourself. Why take the chance?