The problem with 'survival' knives

22-rimfire said:
What about a assembling a pile of twigs rather than splitting larger wood. Splitting somewhat larger wood down to a useful size with a knife is a useful skill and I don't care what anyone thinks about that. However, it is not my first choice unless I am doing it for fun.
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FWIW, I usually use twigs and sticks as "most" of the small stuff for starting a fire. I do however regularly split something (again, something modest in size) for that area immediately around the birds nest/tinder bundle. It seems to light much easier, as frequently twigs and small sticks are damp/wet, as they soak through a lot faster than the bigger stuff. If everything is bone dry then I don't usually bother, but so far that's not been a common occurrence for myself at least.
 
Of course, one could carry a sealed tiny bottle of gasoline or similar (but that is not very woodsey, pure methanol works and is not showey), you know something sized like those small paint bottles for painting models.
 
comis said:
I too like my GSO10, it's a good piece of gear and quite well made too. :D

I think we are probably in the same boat, to not think linearly when it comes to tool option in 'survival/emergency' situation. Just thinking out of the box, given the right situation, what I often curious about is, will a good folding saw and a smaller knife be a more effective combo than a chopper, and in some way safer than axe(at least this will be true for me)?

Btw, great axe, Gransfors is without doubt my favorite too. :)
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There are many good saws out there which are light and packable and cheap. Again, not a bad item to have. Out of all my tools, my leatherman gets more of a daily workout than all else. I just wish the blade wouldn't dull so fast
 
22-rimfire said:
Of course, one could carry a sealed tiny bottle of gasoline or similar (but that is not very woodsey, pure methanol works and is not showey), you know something sized like those small paint bottles for painting models.
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Or wetfire.
 
okto said:
I hate to quibble, but that is just flat wrong. You need kindling and several sizes of split wood before you can get 2" branches to light, unless you douse them in gasoline.
I have to ask, and no disrespect intended: have you ever built a cooking fire without accelerant?

Apart from that, if you're actually stuck in the bush, you aren't gonna be able to be choosy about what fuel is around and it might not be ideal.
Say you find yourself with only mesquite wood to build a fire with. You damn sure need to split it, because that tough bark evolved to repel the Texas sun, anything that wants to eat it, and wildfires, and it's pretty good at not burning. Even the heartwood is super dense, so it needs to be split smaller than say, nice dry pine would.
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Yes I have but around here up north w never really have to split our wood unless it's pouring down rain
 
Hi! I also feel these definitions “survival”, “tactical”, “military”, “hard use”, etc. regarding knives are mostly marketing terms and sometimes misleading. I also agree “survival” is not the same as “bushcraft”, though some skills one can learn by bushcrafting, can be very useful in a real survival situation. Rarely I have heard stories about people who really survived disasters having their favorite “survival” knives with them :). Survival is more a state of mind, the ability to endure in sometimes hostile, harsh environments without all the commodities we give for granted in daily life. One can train for that, to some extent, but it’s not so uncommon to hear even big, well trained guys breaking down and dying and not surviving disasters. The main issue, in my opinion, is disasters mostly come unexpected and life it’s the thing happening while you are busy making plans :).

About knives, I think that what is generally called improperly “survival” knife is, in reality, any good all-rounder utility camp knife. Like someone said, I also don’t think that this is necessarily “the best tool” in a survival scenario. It can be, sometimes, somewhere, a SAK would be a much better choice for some folks, for some others it would be a axe, for others a saw, etc. It really boils down, in my opinion, to individual skills.

About batoning, I have nothing against this practice and, like for all the other techniques, I think it’s worth practicing. And it’s rather funny at the end of the day! :D Frankly speaking, when out hiking, if the case, or simply if I wish to, I’d rather baton with a small camping hatchet (the Fiskars X5 these days) and use my knife for the cutting tasks it’s designed for. I agree, at least for my experiences in alpine environment, 90% of the cases batoning it’s not necessary :). I get easy wood just by breaking dead branches with my hands most of the time and use “as is” or do some feather-sticks out of it. Batoning, for me, it’s mainly for fun!
 
But, if you are testing a bushcraft/survival knife, you will baton with it to demonstrate that it is possible and the knife hopefully is reliable. As an owner, you might very well do the same thing. That doesn't mean that the baton test means any more than what you see... splitting some wood with a knife when struck with generally a wood "club".

I don't see much need for a survival knife per se, but I see a great need for a knife that you are comfortable using in a woods environment for the tasks you are likely to do from slicing, whittling, making stakes or handles to hang pots over a fire, cutting poles for a tarp or tent, chopping wood, perhaps digging (god forbid that you need to use a knife for this), light to medium prying, and of course batoning wood for kindling. That doesn't usually include cutting your way out of a downed helicopter or plane, breaking glass, or cutting wire fencing. But ya never know, right?
 
22-rimfire said:
But, if you are testing a bushcraft/survival knife, you will baton with it to demonstrate that it is possible and the knife hopefully is reliable. As an owner, you might very well do the same thing. That doesn't mean that the baton test means any more than what you see... splitting some wood with a knife when struck with generally a wood "club".

I don't see much need for a survival knife per se, but I see a great need for a knife that you are comfortable using in a woods environment for the tasks you are likely to do from slicing, whittling, making stakes or handles to hang pots over a fire, cutting poles for a tarp or tent, chopping wood, perhaps digging (god forbid that you need to use a knife for this), light to medium prying, and of course batoning wood for kindling. That doesn't usually include cutting your way out of a downed helicopter or plane, breaking glass, or cutting wire fencing. But ya never know, right?
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It wasn't a survival scenario but I batoned a ZT 0180 with a steel mallet today. It came out fine. The Brazilian purpleheart wood didn't. The 4 x 4 piece was a bitch. Drill bits only created smoke and wouldn't penetrate the wood so out came the knife and the old mallet. Made splinters shortly. A saw would've been nice, but alas, I cannot carry everything with me all the time. I wasn't about to mess around with the tiny saw on my leatherman.
 
Back in high school, I belonged to a "Outdoor Wilderness Adventure Club" Our club activity's were mainly Hiking, Camping, Long distance cycling etc. One of us had the bright idea for our final graduation project, that we would go out and survive in the wild for an entire week, with nothing more then a Swiss Army Knife and our Uber Manliness...We all almost died...No joke lol (Never been so hungry in my life)

From that situation I can honestly say, probably the best survival tool (IMHO) would be a hatchet. You need to be able to not only cut firewood, but also cut decent sized branches to make a lean to etc. You can also sharpen it on a flat rock with some water.

When I was a kid there wasn't any of these "Survival Knives" You had your Bowie knives which were for your truck driving psychopaths, not necessarily for hunting. Then you had your Western knives, which were good for carving up a Deer, but I never heard anyone splitting logs with them. And finally you had your Swiss Army's, for all the wanna be MacGuyvers out there. (myself included)

With modern survival knives they seem to be combining everything into one really great package, and I can see the appeal. A Solider for example, carries 87 -120 pounds of weight on his back. So the lighter, and more roles a knife can play is a huge benefit.
 
Nothing wrong with a sharp hatchet.

Not sure when you were a "kid" or what you mean by "survival knife." Opinions vary. (as they do about what a "Bowie" really looked like.)

Consider what Finns think of as a knife to keep you alive in the woods.


My uncle trades "smokes" for this brute in case he crashed in the jungle in WW II.


This was a pre-WWII favorite, and it's 3/16" thick.


These Randalls were called "survival knives" when they came out over fifty years ago. They are not thin by any means.


This beast is the UK military's idea of a survival knife, and it too is over fifty years old.


Hard to believe by First Blood and its iconic "survival knife" appeared thirty-three years ago.

Not to mention bolos, parangs, khukuris, and machetes, all of which get votes as survival knives.
 
I have that Randall Model 15, and believe it or not, it was my "survival knife" of choice for a while. The other early one was an EK Commando bowie knife. Funny thing is that I never had to survive anything other than perhaps wandering off the trail and getting a little mixed up looking for plants in the woods. And, all I had with me anyway was my SAK. I survived.

Yes to Rambo, his "First Blood" movie and knife was iconic. That is about when I in fact got my Randall. Didn't want the cheap Rambo knives. Really doesn't matter as I still would like to have a Rambo knife or three for the fun of it. Probably never use one for anything.
 
Hi Thomas,

It was back in the 80's and 90's...dang I'm getting old lol. It may have been simply where I lived, which was a small city in the middle of western Canada. There was plenty of your "WW2 Era" knives to which we would call either Western, or Hunting knives. What I meant by the Bowie knife, would be more so your "Crocodile Dundee" monster of a knife. Which would probably make a decent survival knife.

It was just a different time and age. You would always hear rumors of someones dad having a "Real" Army knife, but he keeps it locked up in his dresser drawers. I remember finally finding a Kabar style knife, at an army surplus store. All for the owner to say "it's not a knife it's a bayonet, and you will never get it sharp" to outright refusing to sell it to me. (Now I realize, he didn't want to sell something he considered a weapon to a teenager)

And though it was extremely rare. Every now and then you would come across a "Rambo" knife...except they actually weren't Rambo knives they were "Survival Knives" you know the ones with the hollow handle for matches and a compass on top. The ironic thing about them though, is you wouldn't be able to survive with the ones they sold out here! Within 10 mins of use the handles would snap off the blade.

Before the internet made it big..You were stuck with either what the Sears catalog had or what the local dept store sold. You just didn't know any better.
 
There may not have been gun shows in Canada like there were here. I recall back in the 80's in Fort Worth TX seeing all these camo clad people carrying guns over near the arboretum. Realized it was a gun show. Didn't go to a gun show until the mid-80's and I was pretty hooked after a couple. There were many regional knife shows then too. Lots of Rambo knives. It was a good time for gunshows. The only "internet" sales were though Shotgun News and Gun List and a number dealers had mailing lists that they periodically mailed out looking for sales.
 
cbrstar said:
Every now and then you would come across a "Rambo" knife...except they actually weren't Rambo knives they were "Survival Knives" you know the ones with the hollow handle for matches and a compass on top. The ironic thing about them though, is you wouldn't be able to survive with the ones they sold out here! Within 10 mins of use the handles would snap off the blade.
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Every now and then?
Heck, I grew up in Alberta, and I remember those things at every big drug store, as well as the hardware stores.
Got my dad one from V-Mart (I think that's what it was called) for $5 when I was there with my mom.

He still has it to this day, complete with fishing line, sinker, and the wire saw that's ready to snap at the first use. :D
 
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