How about it? I haven't really heard anything "great" about it other than it performs about the same as BG-42. Sounding more and more like the BG-42 is better. Of course I can't make an educated judgement on that because I only have a BG-42 version, but it makes sense to hold on to them until we find the real truth about S30V.
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The real skinny on S30V.
- Thread starter kutch133
- Start date
This is an uneducated reduction of what has already been said on the subject:
Both S30V and BG42 are very pure (by different methods), and have a small grain. This means they will both take a very fine edge.
S30V is said to be tougher, perhaps more wear resistant, and more stainless.
Therefore, in hardening the S30V blade to 58-59 Rc (instead of 60-61 Rc as with BG42), it is my <em>guess</em> that S30V and BG42 will perform just about the same, except that the S30V blade will be more dependable in high-stress situations, owing to the tougher blade, and it will not stain in some situations where BG42 would.
Since Chris makes these folders to be extremely reliable -- rather than trying to excel in any one specific area of knife performance -- then S30V certainly seems like an upgrade.
But if you just use your blade as a fine slicer, and don't ever stress it much, I think the actual performance difference will be hard to notice.
That's just what I've compiled from comments so far. At the moment, I've decided to keep my BG42 blades because they do the job just grand. But keep those results coming! Now if only somebody would send Cliff a plain large sebbie in both metals, to wreak his lovely havoc upon...
Both S30V and BG42 are very pure (by different methods), and have a small grain. This means they will both take a very fine edge.
S30V is said to be tougher, perhaps more wear resistant, and more stainless.
Therefore, in hardening the S30V blade to 58-59 Rc (instead of 60-61 Rc as with BG42), it is my <em>guess</em> that S30V and BG42 will perform just about the same, except that the S30V blade will be more dependable in high-stress situations, owing to the tougher blade, and it will not stain in some situations where BG42 would.
Since Chris makes these folders to be extremely reliable -- rather than trying to excel in any one specific area of knife performance -- then S30V certainly seems like an upgrade.
But if you just use your blade as a fine slicer, and don't ever stress it much, I think the actual performance difference will be hard to notice.
That's just what I've compiled from comments so far. At the moment, I've decided to keep my BG42 blades because they do the job just grand. But keep those results coming! Now if only somebody would send Cliff a plain large sebbie in both metals, to wreak his lovely havoc upon...
Professor
Gold Member
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- Apr 6, 1999
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- 3,427
That sums it up in a nutshell, though many people still have a problem believing S30V can exceed BG42 in performance when only at 58RC. I've been very, very happy with the new steel, though I really haven't cut quite enough to make the call on which is better. I'll leave that to Cliff and the other nay-sayers 
Professor.
Professor.
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- Dec 20, 2001
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- 1,217
I have a mnandi in S30V and a small sebbie in BG-42.Both cut about the same. I haven't had the need to sharpen the mnandi yet. I gather that is where we'll see any sort of performance dividend (S30V is supposed to be easier to sharpen) Since the price has remained the same, this is probably a small performance dividend. In speaking with several makers who will use S30V or ATS-34, they aren't convinced that the switch is worth it for them. The reason is that S30V is a bear to work with, this causes a steep learning curve. I emphasize that these are HANDMADE knives. I don't think I'd use it in a custom yet, since the risk of frustrating a maker isn't worth the small dividend in performance. CRK is a small shop that uses CNC machining, which opens up the appropriate use of this steel. Also, they can buy from Crucible in bulk which offsets the cost significantly. IMHO, S30V is nice, and if you don't have to pay extra, is a great way to go. I wouldn't push it on a maker and risk a potential error in a $800-$1500 custom, or any custom knife for that matter.
Why S30V and not S60V or S90V? Aren't the other two suppose to be even better? Just curious, I don't really know. Thought I read somewhere(probably Blade mag)the others were even harder and or more corrosion resistant. Again, maybe someone here on the forum is an expert. 
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1999
- Messages
- 1,685
Briefly, I have been using an S30V Sebenza for the past three weeks.
I am having to touch the blade up once a week, as compared to every other day with BG-42.
Here is a partial list of my materials:
ROPE
CARDBOARD
SOFTWOODS (PINE, CEDAR)
HARDWOODS (MAPLE, MAHOGANY, WALNUT, CHERRY--WITH GRAIN, AGAINST GRAIN AND ENDGRAIN CUTTING)
PLASTIC BANDING
FIBERGLASS REINFORCED PLASTIC
OCCASIONAL GYPSUM BOARD (will dull anything!!)
But then again, what do I know?--just a wood butcher(journeyman carpenter/woodworker) p.o.v.
What's everyone else cuttin'?
Barry H
I am having to touch the blade up once a week, as compared to every other day with BG-42.
Here is a partial list of my materials:
ROPE
CARDBOARD
SOFTWOODS (PINE, CEDAR)
HARDWOODS (MAPLE, MAHOGANY, WALNUT, CHERRY--WITH GRAIN, AGAINST GRAIN AND ENDGRAIN CUTTING)
PLASTIC BANDING
FIBERGLASS REINFORCED PLASTIC
OCCASIONAL GYPSUM BOARD (will dull anything!!)
But then again, what do I know?--just a wood butcher(journeyman carpenter/woodworker) p.o.v.
What's everyone else cuttin'?
Barry H
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2002
- Messages
- 472
I just wanted to add that anyone interested in getting rid of any of those "bad" steel Sebenzas to please let me know and I will take them off of your hands 
On a serious note, I now have ATS34, BG42 and S30V. I haven't put the ATS34 through any paces because it is an early NIB Sebenza and I am kind of keeping it back. I have used a Large Plain in S30V and another one in BG42 interchangeably for about a week at a time. My use has been primarily cutting carboard shipping cartons, plastic banding and shrinkwraps, and heavy weight roofing materials for samples. The S30V might hold an edge just a little bit better, but not enough to make a real difference. Granted, I haven't let any of them get real "dull" and I tend to use another knife when I intend to really abuse it. So if you think S30V is for you over the BG42, drop me a line
On a serious note, I now have ATS34, BG42 and S30V. I haven't put the ATS34 through any paces because it is an early NIB Sebenza and I am kind of keeping it back. I have used a Large Plain in S30V and another one in BG42 interchangeably for about a week at a time. My use has been primarily cutting carboard shipping cartons, plastic banding and shrinkwraps, and heavy weight roofing materials for samples. The S30V might hold an edge just a little bit better, but not enough to make a real difference. Granted, I haven't let any of them get real "dull" and I tend to use another knife when I intend to really abuse it. So if you think S30V is for you over the BG42, drop me a line
Good discussion so far. My arguments for BG-42 are mostly from what I've read here on BF. In comparing the two: BG-42 takes a easier to achieve, finer polished edge, S30V is only marginally better in edgeholding, S30V is tougher than BG, but how much tougher do we really need the blade to be since it is already more than adequate.
bob_glassman
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2000
- Messages
- 414
I carry and use a BG-42 bladed small sebenza every day and I am very satisfied with the performance of that knife. I also have 2 other BG-42 bladed sebenzas that are wonderful I have absolutely no reason to switch to or desire a new Sebenza with the new steel.
I have read everything that I have been able to find regarding the benefits of the new steel. The funny thing is, I heard the same thing about BG-42 when it started becoming more popular.
You may recall the article in Blade Magazine that named BG-42 as the best all around general purpose knife steel (440A was close second). This came out a little more then a year ago.
I don't always use my sebenzas hard, but when I do, I am never disappointed with the performance of the "OLD" steel..
Unless there is a "SIGNIFICANT" and I mean "SIGNIFICANT" advantage between blade steels, considering the extra difficulty for manufacturing, I just don't see it..
Now, I respect Chris Reeves' decision to go to a new steel, not that I understand it entirely, but I respect it. That doesn't change the fact that there are many, many happy people out there with BG-42 bladed sebenzas.. That won't change.
Just my $.02.
I have read everything that I have been able to find regarding the benefits of the new steel. The funny thing is, I heard the same thing about BG-42 when it started becoming more popular.
You may recall the article in Blade Magazine that named BG-42 as the best all around general purpose knife steel (440A was close second). This came out a little more then a year ago.
I don't always use my sebenzas hard, but when I do, I am never disappointed with the performance of the "OLD" steel..
Unless there is a "SIGNIFICANT" and I mean "SIGNIFICANT" advantage between blade steels, considering the extra difficulty for manufacturing, I just don't see it..
Now, I respect Chris Reeves' decision to go to a new steel, not that I understand it entirely, but I respect it. That doesn't change the fact that there are many, many happy people out there with BG-42 bladed sebenzas.. That won't change.
Just my $.02.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2001
- Messages
- 1,217
The problem I see with CRK using S30V is, it's pushing the industry, particularly, the custom makers into something that is marginally beneficial.
. People hear well "CRK uses S30V, why can't I get a knife made from you that way..." Let's face it, most knife knuts don't really know Jack Schitt about metallurgy, and I'm not going to pretend I do. Do I notice a performance difference between 440C and ATS-34? Sure! BG-42 and S30V, I doubt it. Like I said before, if I don't have to pay extra, fine. Once the dollar meter moves....you can keep it!
. People hear well "CRK uses S30V, why can't I get a knife made from you that way..." Let's face it, most knife knuts don't really know Jack Schitt about metallurgy, and I'm not going to pretend I do. Do I notice a performance difference between 440C and ATS-34? Sure! BG-42 and S30V, I doubt it. Like I said before, if I don't have to pay extra, fine. Once the dollar meter moves....you can keep it!I haven't tried S30V yet, but look forward to it.
It does strike me kinda funny though. This is the first time I have seen a manufacturer questioned for improving their products. The price remains the same, edge holding and ease of sharpening are said to be improved (even if only marginally). All actual use reports so far are positive. Am I missing something???
Paul
It does strike me kinda funny though. This is the first time I have seen a manufacturer questioned for improving their products. The price remains the same, edge holding and ease of sharpening are said to be improved (even if only marginally). All actual use reports so far are positive. Am I missing something???
Paul
MarcAngel,
Spend a MONTH of your life reviewing all the steel posts on the forum and in the archives here and you will have amassed more information than six or eight college credits in metallurgy. As for CRK switching to a new steel, you guys decide, I can't figure it out.
JC
Spend a MONTH of your life reviewing all the steel posts on the forum and in the archives here and you will have amassed more information than six or eight college credits in metallurgy. As for CRK switching to a new steel, you guys decide, I can't figure it out.
JC
I still don't know the exact crystaline differences between pearlite and martensite, so I guess I'm still waiting for that definitive post...
But it's true, BF has some of the most interesting and informative postings of any forum I've read -- on any subject! It's led me to so far to the following opinions:
- Fixed blades are better than folders, unless you need smaller carry.
- Carbon steels are better than stainless, unless you need rust protection.
- 10V and S90V make killer slicers, in production steel. Forged 52100 makes a killer slicer for custom steel. I still don't know which is "best".
- 3V and S30V make for very tough knives, in production steel.
- There are so many different steel factors, it boggles the mind:
toughness
hardness
ductility
impact toughness
wear resistance
abrasion resistance
stain resistance
edge holding
heat treatment
grain size
grain structure
carbide formation
matrix vs. carbide hardness
thickness
geometry
grind
All of these effect the performance of a knife!
- If you can, get a custom. Not only can you specialize the knife to suite your tastes, but the attention to detail, quality of materials, quality of the heat treatment (this is EXTREMELY important), etc., can't be found elsewhere. Also, it's the only way to go for a forged blade.
- CRK is one of the best production makers out there. He uses high quality materials, pays attention to detail, and does an great job with heat treating. A BG42 blade from him will probably outperform every other production blade of the same metal from anywhere else.
Opinions can be so much fun sometimes; a great distraction from the arduous task of finding the truth.
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Read the posts here for a month, and I'll have 6-8 college credits worth of metallurgy....I don't think so. Let me give you a little background. My dear ole grandpappy was a Master Tool and Die Maker for the Frankford Arsenal. He personally manufactured 10 specific parts for every Norden Bombsight. He worked for NASA on the first few Appolo programs. He had a 6th grade education. Not to the 6th grade, the 6th grade. I cut my first piece of steel on his lathe when I was 7. Did I mention I have a Master's in Physics? Now, I KNOW how unforgiving metal work can be. (I still remember getting my hands smacked for breaking two of his bits while cutting Aquamet-22 shafts for our boat.) When I ask a maker, like Aaron Frederick what he thinks of it, and the reply is, "It's a pain in the ASS to work with!" I respect that. The whole point I'm trying to make is, I don't think that the dividend is there. We're talking about knife blades folks, not a freaking lunar module! D2 is a great steel, for a Tool and Die Maker, not Sam the Butcher! Try and sharpen D2 to a razor edge (by hand) after it's been rounded. When you're finished, post a reply. I should be collecting Social Security by then.
Well Marc, I have taken Two classes in Meatllurgy, and the info I have gotten from the classes does not compare to the two other sources (only about 10 hours of reading from other sources on the net, and three seperate books) coupled with the information I have learned on the forums in regards to steel as a cutting implement. I never wanted to learn how to build an airplane, or make bombs like your pappy, I did the reading for knives.
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Marcangel posted:
Read the posts here for a month, and I'll have 6-8 college credits worth of metallurgy....I don't think so.
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Now read what I typed originally, and tell me you didn't misquote me? It still bewilders me that people can be misquoted in a forum setting, when the original post lies just inches below on your screen. Especially esteemed individuals like yourself who hold a Masters degree. Have you read what I typed below? Why take a pot-shot at me here bro?
JC
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Marcangel posted:
Read the posts here for a month, and I'll have 6-8 college credits worth of metallurgy....I don't think so.
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Now read what I typed originally, and tell me you didn't misquote me? It still bewilders me that people can be misquoted in a forum setting, when the original post lies just inches below on your screen. Especially esteemed individuals like yourself who hold a Masters degree. Have you read what I typed below? Why take a pot-shot at me here bro?
JC
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2001
- Messages
- 1,217
I'd say it may be slightly different syntax, but the point is the same. BTW my Master's is in physics, my Doctorate is in medicine. And my grand-father built Bomb sights , not bombs. You might care to take some of your own advice! Back to S30V...
The equation is CRK (Marketing strategy/Value of S30V)(CNC machining)squared= increased knife sales!
Assume the intrinsic added value of S30V to be vey small, therefore sales can increase exponentially. JC, my whole point is that this stuff is a potential disaster for the custom maker. My concern is that this will push makers into a steep learning curve, which SUCKS for me, the custom buyer. I'm not trying to take any "potshots", just trying to add a chuckle. It's really great to talk about "super steels" but I don't think they make much of difference, except in very special applications. BTW, ATS-34 did come to us from the space program, since it will maintain its hardness at over 600 degrees....a little overkill for box cutting or fish filleting here on planet earth. (it might actually be 1600 degrees, I don't feel like looking it up).
The equation is CRK (Marketing strategy/Value of S30V)(CNC machining)squared= increased knife sales!
Assume the intrinsic added value of S30V to be vey small, therefore sales can increase exponentially. JC, my whole point is that this stuff is a potential disaster for the custom maker. My concern is that this will push makers into a steep learning curve, which SUCKS for me, the custom buyer. I'm not trying to take any "potshots", just trying to add a chuckle. It's really great to talk about "super steels" but I don't think they make much of difference, except in very special applications. BTW, ATS-34 did come to us from the space program, since it will maintain its hardness at over 600 degrees....a little overkill for box cutting or fish filleting here on planet earth. (it might actually be 1600 degrees, I don't feel like looking it up).