The " Roosters " are crowing for the " Farmers"

[wlfryjr]

Here's one from our friends and the revered cutlers in Sheffield.

A Joseph Elliot ,most likely a pattern sample we suspect.Probably '60s or early '70s I am told.Handled in horn,engraved pattern number on pile side of pruning blade.

 

[Gevonovich]

A fine example, Lyle!! It is just a pleasure to see these knives!! Thank you for your time and effort to bring them to us.

 

[waynorth]

Another great example, Lyle.
Those knives must have had a heyday. Considering all the different makes and brandings, that usually indicates competition, and sales!
Harness Jacks had a similar period, before Henry Ford and others made it possible to have a car in every garage!

 

[puukkoman]

Oh, my! That horn-handled Sheffield is quite a gem! Lovely. Thanks for showing.

 

[wlfryjr]

Well ,considering the weather here,I thought I'd throw another log on the fire. Someone has to do it or we'll get cold.

This is an unusual one,in that it is not handled in natural material.and not made by Schrade . Apx. 85%I've seen are handled in natural materials. The majority of those not, are of Schrade origin. Others were made,but apparently,not in the same numbers or diversity of makers. I would say the chronology of materials and this pattern are in play there..

Seems this cell has been rather stable,fingers crossed. She has a little fire in her, fitting for the season here.

Ulster Knife Co NY____________ I say Christmas glitter,don't know the proper term.

 

[puukkoman]

Well now, that's a special one! Thanks for sharing it with us, Lyle.

 

[wlfryjr]

I've made a couple errors ( at least ) since starting this thread. The worst being with my manners.

I forgot to thank most of those ,whose responses help me to enjoy this pattern:

Gevo
Jeff
Jon
cutty
Jack
Robin
wazu
Steve
Charlie
Sarah
Jamie
Ken
Alex

Thank you'al for sharing in my passion.

2nd faux pas:

Wrong pictures of the Schrade Walden NY USA, I posted the Schrade Walden NY again(same knife as on pg. 1)

This is the real NY USA knife,NM marked on reverse of pruner 730

 

[wlfryjr]

Well since I talked about unnatural materials a post or so ago,I'll show another unnatural farmer.I hope this thread isn't getting too creepy.

This DE has done it's business,yet retains quite a bit of beauty.Shapleigh had Schrade contracting this time.Schrade also made their own ivory cell in a shadow pattern during the Schrade Cutlery years.I do not know if Schrade sold this bolstered pattern in ivory cell under their mark.

I know Shapleigh had Empire and Schrade contract this knife in bone also.Schrades and Empires of this pattern are extremely closely related.They are the only ones I have found with rat tail bolsters, and not having the pin on the pruner blade in the groove. Both 4 1/8", which helps in accommodating this.

Another predecessor of Charlies SPO Diamonds.

Shapleigh Hdwe Diamond Edge ivory cell (commonly called French ivory ) marked B686 on reverse of pruner

 

[Codger_64]

Great knife show!

1900 Sears catalog

 

[wlfryjr]

EDIT: After Charlie's post,I called a friend whose opinion I trust and he concurred with Charlie. All I have seen called pickbone may not be pickbone,but early jigging.I will leave my posts intact,I don't have time now to properly edit,and leave this disclaimer.All comments about pickbone are welcome,sorry about the confusion.

Here is one of the earlier knives that I have, of 4 or 5 that were probably made in the 1800s.

This AF Shapleigh has the AF Shapleigh Hardware Co mark c1888 and has a distinguishable diamond etch of such on the pruner blade. Notice the style of the spey blade,as observed in older knives of this pattern.
4 1/8" marked on the reverse of the blades, D ♦ E .

Pretty sure made by Empire,and probably the heaviest knife of this pattern I have. The handles are pickbone and the blades are heavy,no catchbits (I think they come several years later). I believe a rare jewel.

 

[Jack Black]

Some absolutely stunning knives Lyle, but most enjoyable of all is your passion for them. Thanks for sharing them with us with such enthusiasm

Jack

 

[wlfryjr]

Thank you Codger and Jack,as said before, these would not be as enjoyable unless shared.

 

[puukkoman]

Impressive!!

 

[waynorth]

How does that recently posted D<>E compare to that worn Empire, Lyle?
Any recognizable DNA??

You are putting on a fine show my friend!!

 

[John L]

Lyle: Does pick bone mean a very small jig.....as compared to jigged bone? This knife has very small and widely spaced jigging. Just wondering........

John

 

[wlfryjr]

How does that recently posted D<>E compare to that worn Empire, Lyle?
Any recognizable DNA??

You are putting on a fine show my friend!!

EDIT: After Charlie's post,I called a friend whose opinion I trust and he concurred with Charlie. All I have seen called pickbone may not be pickbone,but early jigging.I will leave my posts intact,I don't have time now to properly edit,and leave this disclaimer.All comments about pickbone are welcome,sorry about the confusion.

Thanks Charlie,


Here are two DEs compared with the Empire you're talking about on the right. I know Schrade supplied these to Shapleigh in later years. I believe they are Empire and whoever Empire's Farmer jack cutler was went to Schrade or there was industrial espionage.

The rat tail on the Empires are a little wider and the shape of the pruners are a little different.Hard to tell the subtle differences in scans.I'm glad someone let me get that Empire to compare with. Thanks CC.

In hand ,you can see real resemblance in the bone on the two on either end.Look closely at the jigging on them,the ones on the far left and far right. You can almost see the exact pattern in jigging.

You can see the difference in jigging and what we call pick bone by comparing them to the one in the middle also.Notice the deep lines (gouges) on the middle one's handles John ,covered by small flecks overall.

Next these with a schrade

I guess y'all know the knife on the left is Schrade. About the only differences are the small bolster on the Schrade is a little smaller and rounder,and size of rat tails. All are 4 1/8".

 

[wlfryjr]

Lyle: Does pick bone mean a very small jig.....as compared to jigged bone? This knife has very small and widely spaced jigging. Just wondering........

John

EDIT: After Charlie's post,I called a friend whose opinion I trust and he concurred with Charlie. All I have seen called pickbone may not be pickbone,but early jigging.I will leave my posts intact,I don't have time now to properly edit,and leave this disclaimer.All comments about pickbone are welcome,sorry about the confusion.

John,
Here is a look down on, what I think is, mint or NM pickbone handles(only mint or NM pickbone I remember having ever seen,course I'm way up a holler) on a NYK. The deep lines or gouges appear to be made first. These will often appear as hash marks or Xs on a pocket worn pickbone knife.

They are on most,but not all pickbones,some are just the small flecks or chips that cover the handles. The "picks" over the deeper lines seem to vary with makers.

An IXL that has pickbone a little pocket worn,but not real bad,they seemed shallower.

An Ulster pickbone (I think)real pocketworn.

John, I believe pickbone was done mostly(but probably evolved into machine jigging by steps) or all by hand,as opposed to machine jigging,and was it's predecessor. This all would seem to come about,with bone being more available and a cheaper material. Someone with more expertise may come along and make me edit these statements,because most is my opinion.

Charlie talked about pickbone somewhere,and he may further expound or clarify my opinions. It may be answered by the time I post this,I'm slow at this and edit frequently.

 

[wlfryjr]

EDIT: After Charlie's post,I called a friend whose opinion I trust and he concurred with Charlie. All I have seen called pickbone may not be pickbone,but early jigging.I will leave my posts intact,I don't have time now to properly edit,and leave this disclaimer.All comments about pickbone are welcome,sorry about the confusion.

This picture I borrowed better shows the lines evident on pocket worn pickbone.

 

[waynorth]

The zig-zag pattern of "picks" indicates machine-assisted jigging.
The older, hand-done stuff is completely random.
These statements are opinion only, from studying the knives, and talking to a codger or two who have seen the operation.
It is rare to find anyone still around who has "been there"!

 

[navin74]

Hello Lyle. Thank you for sharing your collection of great knives. Do you have a photo of this Ulster open? Thank you again,
Nathan

An Ulster pickbone (I think)real pocketworn.

John, I believe pickbone was done mostly(but probably evolved into machine jigging by steps) or all by hand,as opposed to machine jigging,and was it's predecessor. This all would seem to come about,with bone being more available and a cheaper material. Someone with more expertise may come along and make me edit these statements,because most is my opinion.

Charlie talked about pickbone somewhere,and he may further expound or clarify my opinions. It may be answered by the time I post this,I'm slow at this and edit frequently.[/QUOTE]