• The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
    Price is $300 $250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
    Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.

  • Today marks the 24th anniversary of 9/11. I pray that this nation does not forget the loss of lives from this horrible event. Yesterday conservative commentator Charlie Kirk was murdered, and I worry about what is to come. Please love one another and your family in these trying times - Spark

The "Sebenza" effect

Status
Not open for further replies.
After a few years of being into the knife thing I noticed there are three types of Sebenza people....

Type 1) The haters.... these are the ones who can't afford to spend $350-400 on a knife so they find every reason to justify the fact that they can get a knife that is "just as good" for $60.

Type 2) The honey-mooners.... these are the ones who newly ventured into the realm of more expensive mid-tech knives after having bought entry level $60-150 knives for a while. After reading about all the hype they finally get to experience what people have been raving about and are head over heels. They are 100% convinced that their new sebenza is going to be "THE" knife for eternity.

Type 3) The loyal cult collectors.... these are the people who have a massive collection of CR knives and are true lovers of these particular knives and have been for years.

I fell into the type 2 category for a while when I first got into knives. Don't get me wrong, they are really really nice knives, but after venturing into the realm of custom knives and owning a wide range of mid-tech knives I think there are much better stuff to be had out there.

You left out "Type 4"
Those of us that had other, more expensive blades before getting into CRK. I have a couple of Hinderers, Brous custom, etc... I've had a decent selection and now I've address a few CRKs to the batch. Having seen and used other quality folders of equal or greater cost, I can honestly say CRKs are better built. There is more of a feeling of security with the Umnumzaan. You can just tell the lockup will never fail.

I just want to mention (for those that don't know) Chris Reeve helped develop S30V and S35VN. If it wasn't for him, we might not me debating heat treats on it right now.
 
Interesting question.
The Sebenza has a special place in my EDC rotation.
There are others, but the Sebie has a permanent place.
Did it change my buying habbits - yes. I think twice before i buy impulsive.
red mag
 
Good post al g blenny.
It comes down to what one thinks is the best knife at the time because, as mentioned, tastes change.
rolf
 
Type 1) The haters.... these are the ones who can't afford to spend $350-400 on a knife so they find every reason to justify the fact that they can get a knife that is "just as good" for $60.

I think this should be changed to "the ones who can or can't afford" because to many folks, money isn't an issue. However, there are some people that put a lot of thought into "bang for their buck" and diminishing returns. Someone may buy a $200 knife and think it's "the one" and the greatest thing on earth and it does everything they want. As stated before, I don't own a Sebenza yet. I haven't worked my way up to that point yet. I'm trying out a bunch of different things to see what's right for me so it's got nothing to do with money. Just because you don't own X doesn't mean you hate X. Just because X may not be right for you doesn't mean that you hate X. If I did get a Seb, I'd probably sell some knives off because I, personally, don't want thousands of dollars invested in this hobby. I've got too many other hobbies along with the everyday obligations of life.

I relate it to folks who buy a $65k 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 and don't tow or haul anything whether they can afford it or not. They drive it back and forth to work and to the mall and could get by with a 2wd 1/2 ton just fine but just want it because it's big, it's nice, and their buddies will like it...and there's not a thing wrong with that. I own a 4x4 1/2 ton and it's nice and it's reliable and it does everything I need it to do, and I don't hate that guy who's got the bigger truck. I wouldn't mind having a truck like that and can afford it, but I like that money going to other places. I don't think a BM 940 is on the same level as a Seb, not close, but if all my others were taken away and it's the only one I had for the rest of my life, I'd be just fine with that...but I like variety too much. And don't get me wrong, I like nice things and will gladly pay for them if the cost warrants it, but in some cases for some people, function wins over form.
 
Good post al g blenny.
It comes down to what one thinks is the best knife at the time because, as mentioned, tastes change.
rolf

I certainly agree with that notion, but I would note, that in my case, taste "evolves." And, regardless of what other knife I try, I seem to circle right back to the Sebenza. And, I'm happy with that.
 
Just got a plain small Sebenza 21 yesterday. Beautiful knife with fantastic F&F, Thumb stud feels too close to handle for me but may grow used to it. I will give it a try for a few weeks but at first glance I don't think it is going to replace my Emerson Traveler for EDC in my right hand pocket. Maybe it just takes time for the magic to work; we'll see.
 
You left out "Type 4"
Those of us that had other, more expensive blades before getting into CRK. I have a couple of Hinderers, Brous custom, etc... Ive had a decent selection and now I've address a few CRKs to the batch. Having seen and used other quality folders of equal or greater cost, I can honestly say CRKs are better built. There is more of a feeling of security with the Umnumzaan. You can just tell the lockup will never fail.

I just want to mention (for those that don't know) Chris Reeve helped develop S30V and S35VN. If it wasn't for him, we might not me debating heat treats on it right now.

He didn't help develop the steels. He isn't a metallurgist. He and a number of other knifemakers tested steels for Crucible.
 
I think this should be changed to "the ones who can or can't afford" because to many folks, money isn't an issue. However, there are some people that put a lot of thought into "bang for their buck" and diminishing returns.
Exactly. I want my knives tip-down(!) and without a hollow grind.
 
He didn't help develop the steels. He isn't a metallurgist. He and a number of other knifemakers tested steels for Crucible.

From what I gather, Chris Reeve helped develop S30V and S35VN with Crucible and Crucible got additional feedback from other knifemakers.

Wikipedia: CPM S30V steel
Chris Reeve Knives > FAQ > What is CPM S35VN stainless steel?

What is CPM S35VN stainless steel?
CPM S30V and S35VN Stainless Steels were developed by Crucible Steel in Syracuse, New York. During 2001/2002, Chris worked with Crucible pursuing the challenge of creating a new blade steel specifically for the knife industry that was tough, corrosion resistant and readily workable. The product of their efforts was S30V, alloyed to accommodate these specific capabilities and manufactured to ensure clean, uniform steel. Unlike traditionally cast and rolled steel, CPM (Crucible Powder Metallurgy) is produced in a process that reduces molten alloy components to minute balls – or powder – which results in every grain comprising the exact composition of alloy elements. The powder is compressed under significant force to a homogenous, solid state and the steel is rolled to required stock size.

A small yet significant advance was made when S35VN was introduced in 2009. The addition of Niobium to the alloy results in finer grain structure which gives more toughness. This means slightly better edge retention, shock absorbency and corrosion resistance. For the technically minded, the major alloy components of S35VN are:
Carbon (C) 1.4%
Chromium (Cr) 14.00%
Vanadium (V) 3.00%
Molybdenum (Mo) 2.00%
Niobium (Nb) 0.5%
 
Last edited:
I just want to mention (for those that don't know) Chris Reeve helped develop S30V and S35VN. If it wasn't for him, we might not me debating heat treats on it right now.
I just want to mention that C.R. was ONE OF THE KNIFEMAKERS providing feedback to Crucible who actually developed the steel.
So, if it wasn't CRK very little would've been changed in S30V. We'd still have it. And CRK would've used it just fine.
What we wouldn't have - CRK fans running around and claiming CRK "invented" CPM S30V and S35VN :)
 
From what I gather, Chris Reeve helped develop S30V and S35VN with Crucible and Crucible got additional feedback from other knifemakers.

Wikipedia: CPM S30V steel
Chris Reeve Knives > FAQ > What is CPM S35VN stainless steel?

Barber received feedback from a number of other knife users and knifemakers such as Sal Glesser, Ernest Emerson, Tony Marfione, Phil Wilson, William Harsey Jr., Tom Mayo, Jerry Hossom, and Paul Bos in the development of CPM S30V.

So um....a huge number of well known knife makers were involved. Chris Reeve isn't a metallurgist. He doesn't develop steels. He doesn't have a ph d in materials science. This is ok. Knifemakers don't have to develop steel to be successful.
 
Exactly. I want my knives tip-down(!) and without a hollow grind.

I know it's completely OT but I find that interesting... I like mine tip up and love a good hollow grind. Funny we enjoy the same hobby so differently. Cheers.
 
Oh, GOOD GRIEF! What to say...what to say?

thumper-300x188.png
 
fwiw- A fews years back, I spoke with a gent from crucible and he told me Chris did not come up with the s30v steel.
rolf
 
I just want to mention that C.R. was ONE OF THE KNIFEMAKERS providing feedback to Crucible who actually developed the steel.
So, if it wasn't CRK very little would've been changed in S30V. We'd still have it. And CRK would've used it just fine.
What we wouldn't have - CRK fans running around and claiming CRK "invented" CPM S30V and S35VN :)

For future reference, quotes only make sense if you are repeating something someone actually said. I said he helped develop. Giving feedback and making suggestions is part of the development. I have not seen anyone say he invented it. You can all relax now.
 
First we had S30V...then S35VN...the only logical thing to do is to wait for S40VNF, right?
 
I might be a little late to the party to share my bit, but here goes: I bought my first Chris Reeve in 2002, A large, flat grind, Sebenza. I had kinda believed that the Sebenza was going to be the end-all knife for me. I couldn't imagine ever needing to get another knife, that's how I rationalized the price. Indeed I carried it religiously for years, and during that time, my other knives kinda faded away.

Gifts, sold, thrown into toolboxes, forgotten in gloveboxes, etc. None of my other knives were particularly expensive or rare. Maybe an odd buck or case knife in with the cheaper ones. I finally decided that the large was just too big for some things, like carrying in my suit pants to church, so I bought a second Sebenza, small decorated.

Then I saw the Spyderco Sage 2. I had only used one other Spyderco knife before, but honestly, I liked the hole as an opener better than the stud on my Sebenza. Gifted the small, sold the large and got a sage 2. Even though my small Sebenza and the sage 2 had the same steel, S30V, The sage held an edge much better. (No, I didn't have both knives at the same time and do a head to head cutting tests. I just found that the sage 2 held an edge longer than either of my Sebenzas in my useage.)

I have since moved the sage 2 to backup duty and carry a Spyderco Techno, Partly because I like the looks of the techno and partly because I am of Polish descent, and the designer of the Spyderco Sage, Marcin Slyz, is from Poland.

Now back to the OP's question about a Sebenza Effect. The Sebenza is a great knife, no doubt. Some people are collectors by nature. Owning a Sebenza won't cure you of collecting. I wasn't a collector as much as I was learning what I did and didn't like in knives. The gerber EZ-out taught me that I liked knives without thumbstuds...they also taught me that I detest cheap blade steel. (That knife wouldn't last through the cleaning of a single rabbit before being butter knife dull.)

Also a note, technology continues to move foward. The Gap between my 2002 Sebenza and most anything made then, from other makers, was a large difference. (Price and Quality.) Now their is still a pretty good price difference, but the quality gap is almost gone. I am obviously not a fan of Chris Reeve's heat treat. In my case, I think the modern Spyderco knives are a much better value. It's like everything else in life, you have choices. My Sebenza cut everything I wanted it to cut, so does my techno....and I could use a Buck, ZT, Case, Benchmade, etc. just as well.

Grizz

It's up to you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top