The "Sebenza" effect

[Gator97]

For future reference, quotes only make sense if you are repeating something someone actually said.

And did the quote not repeat what you said?

I said he helped develop. Giving feedback and making suggestions is part of the development...

You also said "If it wasn't for him, " which literally implies S30V wouldn't be around w/o CR involvement, which doesn't sound plausible. The fact that you didn't see anyone in this thread saying CRK invented it doesn't mean nobody on BF(or outside of it) said it generally, and my comment was regarding CRK fans telling tales about how CR singlehandedly developed S30V, not you personally.

For that matter, IMHO it'd be more appropriate if CRK FAQ mentioned other makers involved in S30V development, as it is on CRK site quoting: During 2001/2002, Chris worked with Crucible pursuing the challenge of creating a new blade steel , that does give impression, especially to novice CRK initiates, that CR was the only one guiding Crucible Inc into creating perfect S30V. It's not false, but not the complete picture either. No shame in saying "I was one of the people who helped" vs. "I helped", especially if the former is true.

 

[ericvar101]

I have been collecting for about 3 years and have been a skeptic on the price of a CRK, I finally bought my first one and its true that I have not had the desire to carry any of my other knives since getting it. However, it has only been a few weeks and its still pretty new. I am already about to pull the trigger on another one. I am not ready to sell off my ZTs and Spyderco's yet I don't want to react prematurely to something the "newness" hasn't wore off of yet. I will give it some time but down the road I can see trading my others in for more CRKs, but we'll see what happens, need a little more time to pass before making that move. But so far, I am hooked on the CRK, may buy another before the day is through : )

its not any one thing, and it's not a total logical decision. Its smooth and precision and all those things, but I believe the whole is greater than the sum of its parts which individually are great in themselves. Its also personal preference, the knife fits my personality.

 

[Fanglekai]

Oh, GOOD GRIEF! What to say...what to say?

Integrity is important. Telling the truth is important. Claims that Chris Reeve developed s30v are not accurate and therefore not true. He is not a metallurgist. He did not create or develop the alloy. Knifemakers don't have to develop steels. That's not their job. Saying he tested the steel along with other industry leading knifemakers is not shameful and it is true.

Let's be precise and not let marketing claims spin the truth.

 

[RamZar]

Barber received feedback from a number of other knife users and knifemakers such as Sal Glesser, Ernest Emerson, Tony Marfione, Phil Wilson, William Harsey Jr., Tom Mayo, Jerry Hossom, and Paul Bos in the development of CPM S30V.

"Barber received feedback from a number of other knife users and knifemakers such as Sal Glesser, Ernest Emerson, Tony Marfione, Phil Wilson, William Harsey Jr., Tom Mayo, Jerry Hossom, and Paul Bos in the development of CPM S30V."
​

Above is a direct quote from the last sentence of the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article on CPM S30V steel.

Here's the first sentence of the same paragraph:

"CPM S30V is a martensitic (hardened) powder-made (sintered) wear and corrosion resistant stainless steel developed by Dick Barber of Crucible Materials Corporation in collaboration with knifemaker Chris Reeve."​

Of course, not saying Wikipedia is all knowing!

 

[fetzer85]

I had to quickly check your work, make sure the "F" followed the pattern, good job lol.

lol, thanks for recognizing my excellence in stupidity!

 

[Kai Corp.]

Of course, not saying Wikipedia is all knowing!

When you are not in the know, and rely on Wiki as your source, you won't always be close to the truth.

Has this thread spiraled into exactly what degree Chris had with the development of S30V? Seems like it's drifted off topic here.

Maybe you guys should leave it as Chris was involved in the process, recognize, and thank him. As to the degree, unless the man chimes in (we know that isn't going to happen, and I understand why), we don't really know. I'm unsure why you're even arguing about it...

Advocacy is not always necessary or needed...

 

[RamZar]

When you are not in the know, and rely on Wiki as your source, you won't always be close to the truth.

Has this thread spiraled into exactly what degree Chris had with the development of S30V? Seems like it's drifted off topic here.

Maybe you guys should leave it as Chris was involved in the process, recognize, and thank him. As to the degree, unless the man chimes in (we know that isn't going to happen, and I understand why), we don't really know. I'm unsure why you're even arguing about it...

Advocacy is not always necessary or needed...

Good points. :thumbup:

As my final thoughts on this, I did not rely solely on Wikipedia but included what CRK's own FAQ says on the subject in Post #109 (you can interpret that as CR's own take or marketing spin -- your choice):

Chris Reeve Knives > FAQ > What is CPM S35VN stainless steel?

"What is CPM S35VN stainless steel?
CPM S30V and S35VN Stainless Steels were developed by Crucible Steel in Syracuse, New York. During 2001/2002, Chris worked with Crucible pursuing the challenge of creating a new blade steel specifically for the knife industry that was tough, corrosion resistant and readily workable. The product of their efforts was S30V, alloyed to accommodate these specific capabilities and manufactured to ensure clean, uniform steel. Unlike traditionally cast and rolled steel, CPM (Crucible Powder Metallurgy) is produced in a process that reduces molten alloy components to minute balls – or powder – which results in every grain comprising the exact composition of alloy elements. The powder is compressed under significant force to a homogenous, solid state and the steel is rolled to required stock size.

A small yet significant advance was made when S35VN was introduced in 2009. The addition of Niobium to the alloy results in finer grain structure which gives more toughness. This means slightly better edge retention, shock absorbency and corrosion resistance. For the technically minded, the major alloy components of S35VN are:
Carbon (C) 1.4%
Chromium (Cr) 14.00%
Vanadium (V) 3.00%
Molybdenum (Mo) 2.00%
Niobium (Nb) 0.5%"​

 

[Blade Runner 7]

And did the quote not repeat what you said?


You also said "If it wasn't for him, " which literally implies S30V wouldn't be around w/o CR involvement, which doesn't sound plausible. The fact that you didn't see anyone in this thread saying CRK invented it doesn't mean nobody on BF(or outside of it) said it generally, and my comment was regarding CRK fans telling tales about how CR singlehandedly developed S30V, not you personally.

For that matter, IMHO it'd be more appropriate if CRK FAQ mentioned other makers involved in S30V development, as it is on CRK site quoting: During 2001/2002, Chris worked with Crucible pursuing the challenge of creating a new blade steel , that does give impression, especially to novice CRK initiates, that CR was the only one guiding Crucible Inc into creating perfect S30V. It's not false, but not the complete picture either. No shame in saying "I was one of the people who helped" vs. "I helped", especially if the former is true.

When you take a word like, invented, and put two lines on either side of it like this, "invented", that's called a quote. If you are saying something someone else actually said, it works. If you are paraphrasing, it doesn't make sense. So to answer you, no. The quote did not repeat what I said.

When I say "if it wasn't for him" (see how I did that), I mean it might be a little different. I never meant that Chris singlehandedly created it. Just that his input helped bring about what we now know as S35VN. It might be S34VN if his input wasn't there. Who knows.

I do agree that he should word it differently on his site.

 

[Sonnydaze]

this thread... Seems like it's drifted off topic here.

Perhaps. To what end? To right some perceived injustice? Sounds much like the Strider haters...

 

[Jeru]

Exactly. I want my knives tip-down(!) and without a hollow grind.

I know it's completely OT but I find that interesting... I like mine tip up and love a good hollow grind. Funny we enjoy the same hobby so differently. Cheers.

Thanks. The tip-up part is not surprising: 99% of the knife nuts prefer tip-up; that's exactly my problem

 

[stabman]

I like my Umnumzaan.
Well built, cuts things like a knife should, and fits in the pocket nicely.
I often carry other knives though.

And to put it to rest, I invented the very first knife when I traveled time back to the caveman days.
I made it of stone to fool all the later archaeologists...judging by all the bickering, my diabolical plan worked. :thumbup:

 

[Comeuppance]

Allllright. Locking this down. The thread is kinda pointless now that it seems everyone with something to say has already chimed in and now the last two pages have been about who was more involved in the development of a blade steel.

Thank you, everyone who responded about their experiences regarding Chris Reeve knives.