The Shovel Discussion Thread!

Bully Tools shovels are good stuff. They need a good sharpening when you get 'em, but that's easily done!
 
15 minutes of progress with a wire brush and the entrenching tool is looking better. Rich brown patina. Only markings are a CA
DSC02319.JPG

DSC02320.JPG
 
Looks like it'll clean up nicely! The riveted back place gives it an oddly steampunk kind of look. :p:thumbup:
 
Speaking of saws to pack with a shovel, another folding saw to consider is made in the USA by Bob Dustrude
(available in 21", 24", and sometimes 30"):

[video=youtube;vyPSsRZOxx4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyPSsRZOxx4[/video]


Below is Peter Vido's review of this saw:


Creative People, Essential Tools and the Future of America by Peter Vido

The various versions of a hand saw were among the essential tools which had helped the European settlers wrestle this continent from its former inhabitants, and -- in place of a harmonious co-existence between Homo sapiens and the natural environment -- built a civilization very efficient at gradually destroying the bounty initially found here. Thus, along with the ax, the plow and, of course the gun, the hand saw could be viewed as a kind of former "accomplice in a crime".

The times have changed, however. In view of our future, the handsaw (as well as the ax; forget the gun!) may, at least by some, be appreciated as a valuable gift from the past for the morrow...

With thoughts like these in mind, I was particularly delighted to have recently made an acquaintance with Bob Dustrude -- a passionate designer and maker of folding bucksaws.

He makes them "right here" in Minnesota, in a shop heated with local self-split wood and thereby defies the widely-manifested notion that we (the "developed" nations) can no longer afford to make many of the things that we use and must therefore outsource their production to the corners of the world where labour is cheap. Thus relative to the prevalent trend, Bob does embody the concept of "regional self-sufficiency". In addition, what he also is a living example of is the previous generations' work ethic at it's extreme. At 61 he was entitled to a pension, but could not grasp the logic of quitting work that young. When I asked him how old he was now he put it in an uncommonly positive way: "in ten and half years I will be hundred". Amazingly, his hands are still making tools for others to use! My concern is that this one-man production has no apprentice... and when questioned why, Bob's answer echoed many other old men I've talked to regarding this issue -- "You know, the young people today..."

We have used one of these saws here on the farm, while building log structures this past season, and can state that they are well-designed and well made. Of course, the chief reason for the folding designs is the ease of portability, and you do not need one if you stay put in place. But while on a move (for example during a wilderness adventure, or a permanent journey from a city to some more convivial place in the countryside) compactness is a blessing. In winter survival-like situations (while your hands may be nearly frozen) Bob's saws fold from traveling (photo 1) to working position (photo 2) in seconds without any need to screw around with nuts; hands clad in mittens are perfectly capable of the job.

One note:
The blades included with these saws are made in Portugal, and in line with what has become an international standard, they too are "point-hardened".
This prolongs the period of initial cutting efficiency but also makes the common files useless as tools for their further maintenance.
The USA- or Canada-made re-sharpen-able buck saw blades have been swept off the scene by Father Progress approximately 20 years ago. The modern versions (whether made in Sweden, Portugal, China, India, Mexico etc.) are now all "replaceable" -- meaning you should throw them away once they get too dull to meet your personal standards, and buy a new one. (There's no need to be that wasteful, however. We shall address this issue in the forthcoming section on "tool maintenance by the owner". In the meantime if any of you are aware of a company -- anywhere on this planet -- that still manufactures "re-sharpenable" blades please let us know.)

He makes the aluminium model also in 21", (and occasionally a few 30") plus has another version in 21" with a wooden frame (which we are presently testing..)

-- Peter Vido
 
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I've seen those, and will likely pick one up in future. Looks to be a quite handy piece of work!
 
What snow shovel do you guys prefer? I just ordered a Bully Tools Snow Shovel with the AlumNi scoop. I'm about 6' 1" tall and wanted something a bit longer than most snow/grain shovels.

92402_lg.jpg

Does anyone have experience or opinions on this thing? It's called the Snow Wovel or Snow Wolf, maybe... All the videos make it seem like they aren't throwing very much snow with each toss, IDK? Looks akward, and like a waste of time for anything deep.

41WW2BIMoX1g8L.jpg
 
Steve Tall said:
Speaking of saws to pack with a shovel, another folding saw to consider is made in the USA by Bob Dustrude
(available in 21", 24", and sometimes 30"):

[video=youtube;vyPSsRZOxx4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyPSsRZOxx4[/video]


Below is Peter Vido's review of this saw:


Creative People, Essential Tools and the Future of America by Peter Vido

The various versions of a hand saw were among the essential tools which had helped the European settlers wrestle this continent from its former inhabitants, and -- in place of a harmonious co-existence between Homo sapiens and the natural environment -- built a civilization very efficient at gradually destroying the bounty initially found here. Thus, along with the ax, the plow and, of course the gun, the hand saw could be viewed as a kind of former "accomplice in a crime".

The times have changed, however. In view of our future, the handsaw (as well as the ax; forget the gun!) may, at least by some, be appreciated as a valuable gift from the past for the morrow...

With thoughts like these in mind, I was particularly delighted to have recently made an acquaintance with Bob Dustrude -- a passionate designer and maker of folding bucksaws.

He makes them "right here" in Minnesota, in a shop heated with local self-split wood and thereby defies the widely-manifested notion that we (the "developed" nations) can no longer afford to make many of the things that we use and must therefore outsource their production to the corners of the world where labour is cheap. Thus relative to the prevalent trend, Bob does embody the concept of "regional self-sufficiency". In addition, what he also is a living example of is the previous generations' work ethic at it's extreme. At 61 he was entitled to a pension, but could not grasp the logic of quitting work that young. When I asked him how old he was now he put it in an uncommonly positive way: "in ten and half years I will be hundred". Amazingly, his hands are still making tools for others to use! My concern is that this one-man production has no apprentice... and when questioned why, Bob's answer echoed many other old men I've talked to regarding this issue -- "You know, the young people today..."

We have used one of these saws here on the farm, while building log structures this past season, and can state that they are well-designed and well made. Of course, the chief reason for the folding designs is the ease of portability, and you do not need one if you stay put in place. But while on a move (for example during a wilderness adventure, or a permanent journey from a city to some more convivial place in the countryside) compactness is a blessing. In winter survival-like situations (while your hands may be nearly frozen) Bob's saws fold from traveling (photo 1) to working position (photo 2) in seconds without any need to screw around with nuts; hands clad in mittens are perfectly capable of the job.

One note:
The blades included with these saws are made in Portugal, and in line with what has become an international standard, they too are "point-hardened".
This prolongs the period of initial cutting efficiency but also makes the common files useless as tools for their further maintenance.
The USA- or Canada-made re-sharpen-able buck saw blades have been swept off the scene by Father Progress approximately 20 years ago. The modern versions (whether made in Sweden, Portugal, China, India, Mexico etc.) are now all "replaceable" -- meaning you should throw them away once they get too dull to meet your personal standards, and buy a new one. (There's no need to be that wasteful, however. We shall address this issue in the forthcoming section on "tool maintenance by the owner". In the meantime if any of you are aware of a company -- anywhere on this planet -- that still manufactures "re-sharpenable" blades please let us know.)

He makes the aluminium model also in 21", (and occasionally a few 30") plus has another version in 21" with a wooden frame (which we are presently testing..)

-- Peter Vido
Click to expand...

That thing looks great. I have packed a Wyoming saw for years. The kind that takes down and you can wear as a belt. Came with a metal cutting blade,wood cutting blade and one for bone. Felled many a tree for bow staves with that saw and a hatchet. Passed some trees up because of its limitations though. I will look into getting one of those. Thanks for the post.
 
I purchased one of those Bob Saws a while back, and I have mixed feelings about it.

I have not used the saw much, and when I have used it I haven't had any problems.

However I am intrinsically leery of the construction materials and techniques. The angles are made from aluminum channeling held with copper pins, and the strength is dependent on the thin edges of the channeling aligning perfectly. Any sort of interruption or wear in the pin or geometry of the channeling is going to be catastrophic for the joint and ruin the saw. I really doesn't look like it's going to hold up to any sort of serious use. I could be wrong, and I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I would have purchased one if I could have seen it first.

I think there are much more robust saws available for the money, though they don't pack up as small.
 
Here's an interesting design for a shovel (ever see a shovel with handlebar grips?)

[video=youtube_share;h_lxpA0lhDc]http://youtu.be/h_lxpA0lhDc[/video]
 
Very interesting! Looks perfect for ditch and berm laying and manual tilling!
 
MagenDavid said:
What kind of saw do you keep?
Click to expand...

A Tajima G240.

These cut incredibly fast. The flat tooth line makes them great for carpentry tasks as well as pruning and camping duties. When folded they fit nicely in the left Carhart pocket.

'Silky' makes saws that appear almost identical to Tajima but come in more sizes and larger sizes. I've heard good things about the Silky's. I suspect that Tajima might be making the Silky's. I want to try out the Silky Big Boy 360mm with medium teeth (8.5 tpi). I've found that coarser teeth like 6 tpi don't do quite as well in hard woods.

Edit: My truck tools are all smaller sized tools which can fit in my day pack. Full sized tools would be more practical and efficient for truck rescue but I have these with me for the trail not the road.
 
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Pullrich, I seem to remember that the "CA" indicates the Soviet Army. Looks like an older one but could be anywhere from 1917 to WWII or even later. John
 
Thanks John! I'm calling it a Soviet army shovel until told otherwise. I've linseed-oiled the handle, planning to give it a coat of durable black paint. There are faint small chips of what I guess is the original black paint.
 
I bought a cheap folding shovel for $21.99 on Amazon for a survival trip with my Squadron, I'm gonna post some pics tomorrow but that thing is worth twice it's weight in gold. :cool::thumbup:
 
I haven't read all the posts, so forgive me if this has been mentioned. Glock makes a nice light folding shovel with a saw in the handle. It may even be a NATO issue piece of equipment. If you need a pick, the Korean War US shovel is hard to beat, but it is heavy.
 
tiguy7 said:
I haven't read all the posts, so forgive me if this has been mentioned. Glock makes a nice light folding shovel with a saw in the handle. It may even be a NATO issue piece of equipment. If you need a pick, the Korean War US shovel is hard to beat, but it is heavy.
Click to expand...
I bought a couple of old German shovels with the pick last year. Those things are sweet.
They also came with leather sheaths :)
 
tiguy7 said:
If you need a pick, the Korean War US shovel is hard to beat, but it is heavy.
Click to expand...

Just don't get your hand caught between the pick and the handle when you have the tool in straight shovel mode. It creates a nasty pinch. And gripping over the pick isn't comfortable. In 'pick-n-hoe' mode the tool works great. I keep one of these behind the seat of my truck.
 
bearhunter said:
I bought a couple of old German shovels with the pick last year. Those things are sweet.
They also came with leather sheaths :)
Click to expand...
Yeah, You mean the ones with the oak handles and square peg release? Those are some of the best. ;)
-Bruce
 
bearhunter said:
I bought a couple of old German shovels with the pick last year. Those things are sweet.
They also came with leather sheaths :)
Click to expand...

+ 2 on this one Bear. I bought a few of the German Military E-tools myself. They are heavy and tough as nails, and the pick and angled shovel head make them great at moving dirt.
They would be a pain to lug around all the time because of the weight, but as a truck tool, or a car camping tool, they are hard to beat. I heard someone complaining that you cant replace the handles, but you can, they are screwed down, and can be unscrewed and cleaned out and a new handle fitted. Good stuff.
 
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