The Shovel Discussion Thread!

I just love the feeling of jumping up on the steps and sinking the blade all the way into unbroken dirt. :D
 
That's actually a pretty clever way to store them--the sand would abrade off any rust and the oil would protect them from rusting!

It's kind of a form of "lost innocence" going into big box stores once you know what to look for in farm and garden tools. Open sockets and open backs are both easier and cheaper to produce because they can be press formed in seconds from a single cut plate. Good for economy when it's just going to be used for light duty. I suspect that the reason why more economy models also have rear-facing steps is because that means that the whole blade can be formed in one press rather than two.

All I can say is there's truth to the adage that a poor man cannot afford a poor tool. I'm not exactly independently wealthy or anything, but I'm glad I decided to put the extra money towards quality tools. The work around the property would be absolutely murderous with cheap big box tools! Heck--some of the tools that make my life the easiest (like my Hiram Holt "Lightning Hay Knife") aren't even made anymore! :eek:
 
Strictly single purpose. Can't really think of anything a hay knife would be good for besides cutting hay! The edge retention isn't amazing but the tool itself is a joy to use. Some day in the future I'll probably commission one from a sword maker as they'd have a forge long enough to handle it and would be able to give it the distal taper it needs. A lovely invention!
 
An armorer would be the best sort of metal worker to get in touch with for a custom shovel, I'd expect! Though George Lesche at Predator Tools does semi-custom variations of his items.
 
Here's a shovel head made of aeronautical aluminum, which weighs just under 1 pound.

falcitools.com-6313dc4b-f4de-4886-8fa2-ab358c18af51-Fix330x800.jpg

http://falcitools.com/En/News/News_Detail.aspx?NewsIDMaster=3998

Peter Vido told me that he loaned a similar Falci shovel to a guy he knew in Austria who was the town's gravedigger (done by hand not machine). The guy had nothing but praise for it and he refused to give it back.
 
For a small trowel I like the Zenbori soil knife (hori hori) and for a larger model the CS SF Shovel does a good job though I'd change a few things about it if I could. I intend on getting a Predator Tools "Hercules" at some point and I suspect it'll make a very handy companion.
 
Just sat down and read through the whole thread. I've always believed they don't make tools like they used to, but shovels never occurred to me as one of those tools. Going to have to change that, the only one I have is a well used box store Truper rolling in the back of my truck. Might buy one online, like the Bullies that have been mentioned, but hoping to find a vintage one. Got a few questions from this thread though, if someone doesn't mind answering them.

Are solid backed shovels those shovels with a weld in the back, in the crack of the rolled socket?

I read online what lift is, but what does more lift versus less lift equal?

Size of the shovel head, from what some of the online stores here have. Some have wide but short shovel heads, others have a few inches thinner but longer heads. Is this for different types of soil?

Does handle length vary randomly, I'm guessing more would equal more leverage and less bending over, but is a good handle sized to the person using it?

Thanks.
 
Solid-backed shovels simply do not have an open top of the socket for dirt and debris to accumulate in, and this can be accomplished in several ways. Most commonly in modern closed-back shovels the blade is welded to the neck, while in the case of the Council and many vintage models the whole thing was forged. A third method involves welding a filler plate over the back.

More lift vs. less lift will end up affecting prying ability, chopping ability, and comfort of transfer shoveling. More lift gives greater leverage due to increased range of travel, and vastly increased comfort when transfer shoveling (think shoveling up dirt from freshly broken ground) while less lift increases the ease of chopping or piercing with the point. This is handy when shoveling hard, rocky soil, cutting a plug, or chopping roots.

Size of the shovel head will be determined by the soil type and specific purpose of the shovel.

Handle length does vary a good deal but a long one is usually best for a general use shovel while a shorter one may be better for a spade when working hard or resistant soils since you can put more force directly behind the handle.
 
I've used those council tools some and am not a big fan. They're really heavy for what they are, the threads on the nut that lets you adjust the blade get clogged with dirt, and the bolt that holds the pieces together tends to loosen up under extended use. For that kind of work (trenching, scraping, etc) I'm really partial to what they call a rhino. You take one of those pointy FS shovels, cut it at the neck, cut off the pointy part, rotate the handle 180 around the long axis and weld it back on at a right angle to the blade... It's like that council tool when the blade is folded at a 90 except lighter and more elegant ergonomically, and able to move a lot more dirt. Will get photo.
 
VintageAxe said:
I've used those council tools some and am not a big fan. They're really heavy for what they are, the threads on the nut that lets you adjust the blade get clogged with dirt, and the bolt that holds the pieces together tends to loosen up under extended use. For that kind of work (trenching, scraping, etc) I'm really partial to what they call a rhino. You take one of those pointy FS shovels, cut it at the neck, cut off the pointy part, rotate the handle 180 around the long axis and weld it back on at a right angle to the blade... It's like that council tool when the blade is folded at a 90 except lighter and more elegant ergonomically, and able to move a lot more dirt. Will get photo.
Click to expand...

Sounds like...a hoe??? :confused: Looking forward to pics. :):thumbup:

But yeah I overwhelmingly don't care for moving parts on digging tools. It's just asking for problems.
 
It's a lot like a big hoe, only sturdier and you sharpen all three edges. For some reason the concave edge seems to be part of its advantage, though I can't really say why. Sorry about that attempted description. That is, remarkably, a tool I don't have just laying around. So this will have to do.

IMG_1830.jpg

Cut where the 2 marker lines are (only try to make them straight :)) Throw away the pointy piece. Take the piece where the handle goes and orient such that the two parts you just separated are touching again, only with the handle coming toward you (it would be pointing pretty much straight out of the floor as oriented in this photo - it's hard to tell but it's sitting concave side up) and weld together. The angle between the handle and the head is best when it's just a bit under 90 degrees. Then give yourself some good edges. I prefer to sharpen mine on the outside though I've seen people use the existing inside profiles on the sides and then file the cut edge on the inside too. It's just hard to make a flat file put a good edge on a concave surface. Of course the handles on those shovels are on the short side, and I'm not, so I wind up stealing a piece of ash from some other tool and fitting it in there so I don't have to hunch over to use it. Against that collins folding tool, the flat edges are much better for cutting through brush and small tree limbs. Even that collins' flat edges don't really cut very well.
 
VintageAxe said:
It's a lot like a big hoe, only sturdier and you sharpen all three edges. For some reason the concave edge seems to be part of its advantage, though I can't really say why. Sorry about that attempted description. That is, remarkably, a tool I don't have just laying around. So this will have to do.

View attachment 271976

Cut where the 2 marker lines are (only try to make them straight :)) Throw away the pointy piece. Take the piece where the handle goes and orient such that the two parts you just separated are touching again, only with the handle coming toward you (it would be pointing pretty much straight out of the floor as oriented in this photo - it's hard to tell but it's sitting concave side up) and weld together. The angle between the handle and the head is best when it's just a bit under 90 degrees. Then give yourself some good edges. I prefer to sharpen mine on the outside though I've seen people use the existing inside profiles on the sides and then file the cut edge on the inside too. It's just hard to make a flat file put a good edge on a concave surface. Of course the handles on those shovels are on the short side, and I'm not, so I wind up stealing a piece of ash from some other tool and fitting it in there so I don't have to hunch over to use it. Against that collins folding tool, the flat edges are much better for cutting through brush and small tree limbs. Even that collins' flat edges don't really cut very well.
Click to expand...

What are your thoughts on the Predator "Richmond Shovel" then? Not as long, but certainly more packable.

41.jpg
 
It looks expensive :-) Packability isn't really an issue for me, I like to have it in hand in case I need it, and it doubles well as a hiking staff on tricky ground and steep hills.
 
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