The Spear for defense and food procurement

Oh puhleezw stop. Wolves do not kill or eat people.
They are much too busy and content harassing the three little pigs. :D

Personally I would like to have a copy of this nonagression pact we have with wolves. That way I could show it to them when they attempted to bite my A$$.:cool:
 
http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolf_attacks_on_humans.html

Kevin, you shouldda had your Firehardenednucleartippedspear. the wolves would've run and told all other wolves.
"He has one of those pointy stick thingies!"

I don't think it's likely that bears or Wolves would attack, but in a wilderness survival situation, and a pack of wolves that are hungry....well??
 
Mike,
could you post a link to the lightfoot knives pig hunting, I could not find it on his site. Chris
 
Everytime i go out to the woods i find a stout branch to use as a walking stick. If i decide to sit down for even a minute i end up putting a point to one end. It's just always been that way. I don't know why there would be folks who don't sharpen up sticks when out and about. I don't see a single disadvantage. I see alot of advantages though.

I find if you want to go up a real steep slope you can bury the tip in and get up pretty quick and easy, not alot of slipping in icy weather, a chance to use your knife, something to kill time, a means of defense from animals, it makes your sticks look cooler (especially if you carve other designs into it)...

Etc :)
 
I've never had to do this (knock on wood) but I've read and been told a stout walking stick/spear can save your bacon if you fall through the ice on a frozen lake or river. If the surrounding ice is strong, bracing your spear across it will distribute your weight evenly and hopefully you can pull yourself to safety. (if you have to just grab the edge of the ice-hole, all your weight is in one spot and much more likely to break the ice further.) Even if that doesn't work, you may be able to reach bottom with the spear and push yourself towards safety?

That's the theory anyway; as y'all have said, it's sure better to have it, than not. Besides, making a spear by the campfire sounds like a fine way to relax. While I haven't purposely made a spear since I was a kid :D, I do always select a stout stick for stirring the coals, etc. With use it quickly develops a pointy, hard tip.

Terry Newton said:
Can we get a pic of the other side. I am curious if the socket is solid all the way around, or made in the cold steel manner.
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I agree that bowie and spear pricecw made are very cool. As far as the spear haft construction, I would think the CS design (open, not welded together) would be best, since carbon steel or tool steel like that will have a bit of "spring" to it, and grip the wood better. This may be a very small distinction, but a slight advantage and also, I think, easier to build.

Great ideas and food for thought in this thread, thanks for starting it SkunkWerx :)
 
Redwolf said:
Skunk: "wolves growling in the background"

Contrary to popular belief there are no verified and documented cases of wolves ( canis lupus ) attacking and killing human beings.

On the subject of nuclear tipped spears, some Tops knives, and most Busse knives have a hole in the handle as well as a hole just behind the choil to facilitate lashing the knife securely to a shaft of some sort.

I'm rather perplexed that more manufacturers/makers haven't caught on and followed suit. It's simply a good idea for an hostile conditions knife.

Red
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North61, I was thinking of the same case!

Redwolf, there was another incident in Alaska where wolves went after a healthy 20 some year old woman camping.

Here in Idaho, we had a guy running his dogs when a pack attacked, he got away, because one of his dogs bit the wolf as it went for him. Killed and ate all of his dogs.

Historically, there are a lot of cases of wolves attacking humans, the statistics most quoted, is no known healthy wolves killing humans. Problem is, back when we had the most human/wolf interaction, people didn't document if the wolves where "healthy" or not. Thus, the statistics can be warped anyway you want.

I really believe, that with the wolves new taste for dog, we are going to loose a child in the west in the next couple of years.

--Carl

btw--will respond to the spear/knife next.
 
Terry Newton said:
That is awesome. Can you tell us more about it? You mentioned farm implement. Can you be more precise? Do you know what type of steel it might be?

Can we get a pic of the other side. I am curious if the socket is solid all the way around, or made in the cold steel manner.

What are the dimensions?

Thanks.
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Thanks all for the comment on the seax/spear. The Seax was supposed to be for a SITH, but I screwed up two sets of scales and couldn't get it done in time. This is my first seax, and I enjoyed making it.

The farm implement was a bracing piece from a manure spreader. It sparked pretty good, so I gave it a try on my kid's spears. I wasn't going for sharp on theirs, so I forged it and heat treated them. They took a wicked edge, so I dulled them up, and let them throw them at boxes. I had to have one too. So I made this one (third spear). Still need to haft it. Cool thing is, this helps me learn alot about forging dagger blades.

The socket is done on the anvil. Just forged round freehand to where the side touch. The work really well. This one is then acid etched to give it a little rust protection.

runningboar, I still haven't figured out the sale thing, currently bladesmithing is therapy for me. I am planning on getting my website constructed this Christmas break from work. http://www.firebirdforge.com, but you will be disappointed visiting now.

Thank you all for your kind words on my blades.


--Carl
 
I cant take credit for this one but I'll pass on a good idea. A couple of weeks ago longbow50 posted a picture of a food gathering kit he put together which included a couple of frog gigs / 3 & 4 prong fishing spear tips. Not much good for defense but probably more useful in the long run.
Like one buzzard said to the other.

"patience my ass I'm gona kill something and eat it".
 
have any of you guys ever read the book "THE LOOP" by nicholas evans.. he is the same guy that wrote "the horse whisperer"...

it is a fiction book about wolves making their return/comeback, and the affect it has on the local livestock and people of a small montana town... it was a pretty decent read... http://literati.net/Evans/EvansBooks.htm

"of wolves and men" by barry lopez, is also a really good book.....:thumbup:

mike
 
I'm in the same boat with Terry. I've got the Bushman full size and mini. I've never used it as a spear but I really like them as utility/camp knives (Espically at their price point.). I don't see any reason that they wouldn't make a decent spear tip in a pinch. Acually I was going to try it today while out on a little hike. Couldn't find a d%m* legnth of wood on the ground worth a S#i@. Thats the NJ Pine Barrens for you, everything on the ground was rotted. I'd have had to cut something down to give it a go.
 
Mike that sounds like a good book. Reintroducing wildlife is a tough call for me.
I am all for it. I also respect that people live in the same area. I don't like to get too touchy feely about wildlife. Naming something you might have to eat or might eat you is counterproductive to me.
 
Redwolf said:
Skunk: "wolves growling in the background"

Contrary to popular belief there are no verified and documented cases of wolves ( canis lupus ) attacking and killing human beings.
Click to expand...

Did your local PETA rep tell you that? "Learn" it on the Animal Planet? Bull crap. There are 3 or 4 documented wolf attacks in the last 200 years IN NORTH AMERICA. There are many more from Europe, but none even close to recent.

it IS important to note that most attacks occured on lone travelers or groups of 3 or less, durring periods where normal game animals were exceedingly scarce.

While it is EXTREEMLY rare, and wolves are normaly very cautious of humans, if wolves get hungry enough and you come blundering along all by your lonesome its not going to be prety.
 
There are 3 or 4 documented wolf attacks in the last 200 years IN NORTH AMERICA. There are many more from Europe, but none even close to recent
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WHOA, whoda thunk it, 3-4 in 200 years!:rolleyes:

it IS important to note that most attacks occured on lone travelers or groups of 3 or less, durring periods where normal game animals were exceedingly scarce.
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Being in wolf country all my life and I've never seen one. You're a damn lucky soul to get a glimpes.

While it is EXTREEMLY rare, and wolves are normaly very cautious of humans, if wolves get hungry enough and you come blundering along all by your lonesome its not going to be prety.
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I'm geussing this comes from your experience.:confused:
There's a heck of alot more encounters with Black bear and they mostly want your food, not you.
 
mr.trooper said:
Did your local PETA rep tell you that? "Learn" it on the Animal Planet? Bull crap. There are 3 or 4 documented wolf attacks in the last 200 years IN NORTH AMERICA. There are many more from Europe, but none even close to recent.

it IS important to note that most attacks occured on lone travelers or groups of 3 or less, durring periods where normal game animals were exceedingly scarce
While it is EXTREEMLY rare, and wolves are normaly very cautious of humans, if wolves get hungry enough and you come blundering along all by your lonesome its not going to be prety.
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Sorry, but it is not even extremely rare any more. What's more, they are not cautious of humans, because humans are not allowed to harm them.

A lot of people that I know that camp have seen wolves in Idaho now. 90% of them don't hunt, but they are around most of the camp grounds now. I saw a pair about 1/4 mi from my place, fish and game had been quietly trying to track them down for about a year, supposedly they were hunting the river and slough by my place.

For the most part, the USFG tries to keep any problems out of the media. When trappers have to take out a pack, they will post signs closing a trail due to goverment action, and have a warning about traps, nothing else. If you run across a sign, and call the Idaho fish and game, they will give you the information, but you will rarely see it in the paper.

This year, we had some USFS workers pulled out of the wilderness by helicopters. They were surrounded by two hunting packs, and were scared enough that they radioed for help. Official word, they were pulled out just to be sure, never in any danger. I have become very skeptical of the official word.

And the guy who had is pack eaten. The official word was he wasn't attacked, because he wasn't bitten.

--Carl
 
Beware, this is second-hand info, I can't verify it's veracity... but this is not the first time I've heard of nuisance wolves in Montana and Idaho.

Even here in WI, the timberwolf and coyote populations are slowly rising; I generally think this is a good thing. Lord knows, we have plenty deer for them to hunt. Again, myself and most people I've spoken to think this is a good thing, natural order of prey/predator, and so forth.

Certainly problems can arise, due to the proximnity of people and wolf packs. I humbly submit that I've never heard of coyotes or wolves attacking people in my area, and if their population grows too fast, they should be trapped/harvested in the interest of maintaining some semblance of balance in the woods.

I don't hunt or trap, for various reasons, but I'm 100% in favor of wildlife management, at least in theory.
 
IV been wondering about adding a gig to my pack for frogs or small fish. Overall i think spears are a good idea.
 
spears are fantastic. I'm with Mirror Saw on this one. I've always sharpened my walking sticks into a nice point. walk with it tip up to preserve the point. if you need to grip the top of the blunted end the point pops back pretty easily.

what is the legality of carrying an actual spear with a metal head in the forest with you? Cold Steel has a couple spears for sale that look like decent buys (Assegai Spear for $50 and Boar Spear for $90, $60 for spear head only).

as for the danger of wolves, sure, a hungry wolf/pack might consider you part of the dinner menu, but their danger is being overstated in this thread. you should always be prepared for it, yes, but it's all too common for ppl to simpy speak ill of wolves in general.

I've been in close proximity to wolf packs 4 times in my life and to lone wolves a couple more (possibly the same wolf). I almost crapped myself the first time I ran into a pack. a dozen wolves, maybe. maybe a few less. first reaction was to freeze (no firearm available). I thought about it for a minute and kept on heading where I was going. the wolves goose stepped around when I froze and left when I did. never really had any interest in me outside of sight-seeing. the next couple times I ran into what I believe to be the same pack, but can't say for sure. didn't feel frightened @ all. just wary. make no mistake, if they wanted to eat me it would've only been a little trouble for them. next time I ran into a different pack. smaller pack. they were afraid of me and did the run away for 20 feet, turn around and look @ me, run 20 more feet, turn and look again thing with me. it was comedically well done.

then there were the lone wolves (or wolf *shrug*). again, I was kind of scared the first time. I figured it might be a bad sign (saw the packs in Quebec, the lone wolf was here in Maine), but realized we had plenty of game for it to eat, and so I stuck with my trudge on method. next time was the same routine. just crossing paths.

I have heard some bad stories out of Alaska tho. specifically about wolves coming into dumps to scavenge. it seems there was a pack that tried to perhaps extend their territory to encompass the dump, which was quite close to a base. eventually standoffs became almost common-place, from what I understand. no link since I watched it on National Geographic. there were a couple of other "unexplained" attacks in the show that were eventually credited to wolves that weren't technically proven (one expert was convinced the wolves killed, the other was convinced they simply scavenged the body, if I remember correctly). then there was one more definite attack (this one might have been in Canada) in which a guy decided to take off running instead of standing his ground. outside of the situation with the dump, the others sounded easily avoidable. even the dump situation could've been solved if they put the dump farther away from the base.

which raises an interesting question... what would be the best way to fend off hungry (maybe even rabid) wolves? I know better than to run. but how could you tactfully and perhaps tactically halt an attack from multiple wolves? consider the tools you usually have with you. could you do it with a firearm? a bow? what if your best weapon was a 3" skinner? 6"-10" knife? khukuri? spears are starting to sound good, right? anyone feel like they need more weapons training? ;)
 
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