The Spear for defense and food procurement

A semi auto rifle would be my first choice, but a spear is second easily.
I just recieved my cold steel bushman and am very pleased, except for the upswept tip. I will be modifying it to a drop point very soon.
The reason I bought it was for making a spear, I plan to have a nice 6 foot walking stick with a tapered end fashioned to fit it just right.

That bushman is sharp as the dickens, gave myself a nasty cut in a moment of carelessness. But better here then the woods, it reminded me how much respect an edged tool deserves.

North 61, what part of NWT are you from? I am in Iqaluit.
 
What steel is the Bushman?
I've seen them before, never really committed it to memory.

I read where it was a good thing to carry a screw-eye with you, so that once you had the pole tapered for the bushman, you could use the screw eye from the side to fasten and keep it on. I'm interested in how good of a fit/finish you can achieve?

There is a way to cut a notch in the end of your pole, and partially insert a wooden wedge. As you drive it home, the wedge is forced into the pole end, in this case, expanding the end against the bushman inner walls, making it tight. If this doesn't explain it well, I can make a drawing later.

A sock with a baseball size rock in it makes one heck of a widlerness slap-jack, but, maybe that's for a "wilderness weapons" thread.
 
I couldn't agree more with a long walking stick/spear as a good idea. Some of the individual applications may come from unique personal experience.

I do think in general its a great idea. It is the many viable suggestions that impressed me. Starting with the practicality of having it long enough so that when used as a walking stick you cannot fall upon the point. One I had not thought of was for use in extricating yourself if you fall through the ice on a lake.

I have quite a few walking sticks and staffs beside the front door. I don't use them all that often. Now I will see them in a new light. I think I will set one up with a slot for my Becker necker and see what it can do.
 
Those links are funny.

Where's the beef guys?

Did I get it from PETA?
No, I learned it from studying wolf/bear interrelationships and wildlife management at UC.

I'm not saying that it couldn't happen....there is a first time for anything. And I didn't say to be a fool and leave yourself open to attack from anything or anyone.

"Likely" , "some kind of animal" , "ate his dogs" ....

Yep! There it is guys, proof at last.

Whatever. I guess you all better get your NBC kit together before hiking in the woods because the likelihood of an NBC attack is in fact more probable than you being attacked and killed by wolves.

Now where did I put my duct tape.... ;-)

Red
 
OK, just did a quick search on the dog story, hit a number of them, but also human attacks
http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NA...8&call_pageid=1020420665036&col=1112101662670

Here is the story of the dogs. Pictures of one of them.
http://www.ngpc.state.ne.us/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=015852

local story
http://www.idahopress.com/articles/2006/11/25/wolf/wolf3.txt

About 300 yards down the hill I was stopped dead in my tracks by a big dark-colored wolf. Blackey, my dog, was getting attacked; I was 20 yards away now and closing fast, screaming and yelling as I ran. I stopped at about 12 feet from the wolf, and even though I was screaming and waving my arms, the wolf did not break from the attack. Every time Blackey tried to run, the wolf would sink his teeth into Blackey’s hindquarters.

All the while I was screaming louder than I ever screamed in my life. Without any thought I picked up a 4-foot stick, stepped toward the wolf, swung and hit a tree. When the branch went crack and the tree went thud, the wolf instantly lunged at me.

I remember thinking I was going to die.
Click to expand...

Not just something ate his dogs, it was a wolf!


I am not against re-introductions, but this one has been screwed up from the start. It was all about politics, and not about the environment. It still is about politics, since we are running over the most optimistic holding capacity for wolves in the state by a large margin.

We have dangerous game in this state, for the most part, human encounters are very bad for those animals (bear, cougar, etc) so they avoid humans. Not so with the wolf, so they tend to get used to humans, and that's when things get bad.

the likelihood of an NBC attack is in fact more probable than you being attacked and killed by wolves.
Click to expand...

I have never seen an NBC attack in the woods around here, however there are wolf attacks that have happened. So, the statistical probability is in favor of a wolf attack and not an NBC attack.

Back to spears. Around here, it would be legal to carry a metal pointed spear most places, but I'm not sure I want to use one as a hiking staff without some kind of edge cover. Get some razor sharp edges on the end of the thing giving you balance just seems to scream problem.

--Carl
 
...Sounds to me like what you need is a semi-auto rifle with an integral bayonet - like a nice SKS rifle LOL. A big sharp stick and a handgun would be an acceptable second choice though.

Supposedly old native americans would allow themselves to be eaten by wolves - maybe that's just an old wives tale though (?). Hell of a retirement plan though aye? ...Left out alone by a campfire until the fire dies down & the wolves come. Sort of like the retirement plan at Enron :D
 
Since there have been no NBC "attacks", then it would difficult to extrapolate comparative statiscal analysis.

I'll help Redwolf for a moment. You are more likely to be struck by lightening, or to die from a bee sting, than to be attacked by a wolf.
This is statistical fact. Same goes for Bear attacks.

NOW, with that said, let's step back for a moment, and think about the basic premise here. You are stranded deep in the wilderness, like the guys in the "I shouldn't be alive" TV shows. I'd say your statistical chances of having a Wolf or Bear or other potentially "harmful" wild animal encounter has just risen in logrythmic proportion to the base population of North America.

Therefor, it is not out of the realm of possibility. In fact, just as you would watch for an avalanch in snow country, or seek cover during an electrical storm, if you were stranded deep in the wilderness, it is something to think about seriously. Add to that, a nasty wound, and the fact you may have left somewhat of a blood trail, and scent, I'd say it's adviseable to take '"reasonable measures".

Enter the Spear.
As Kevin just "pointed out" (I love using Pointed Out in a spear thread) there are those other uses.
How about checking the depth of water, should you be thinking of crossing a stream or fishing? Reaching fruit or other intangibles 10 feet off the ground?
Poking ahead to check for critters like snakes? better they bite your spear/walking stick than your ankle.

Combining the walking stick with the spear yields a multi-use tool, which can be fabricated relatively easily, and has a lot of potential.
My original comment, "wolves growling in the background" was done with a smirk, to add some "flavor" to the supposed situation. Next time I'll insert "Badger" or "Rattlesnake" or "deranged Platypus" to give fair time to other potentially harmful animals.

Bottom Line, there are many reasons to carry a sharp pointy stick.
 
I Sir am from the P:U:S:S: foundation. (Platypuss's undergoing suspicious slander):eek:

We at PUSS will not stand for your suspect slander of our members. :grumpy:

Deranged? The very idea of it sends me off in an unbalanced rage. :mad::D :grumpy: :mad: :D
 
A couple of years ago, I bought a large, rusty wood chisel at a garage sale. The socket opening is 1" at the base and 4" deep. The blade is 12" x 1.5" x 3/16" thick. Sounds like a spearhead comin' up. :thumbup:

Some commercial, metal walking stick have carbide tips on the "business "end. The might make good "pokers."
 
Thomas Linton said:
A couple of years ago, I bought a large, rusty wood chisel at a garage sale. The socket opening is 1" at the base and 4" deep. The blade is 12" x 1.5" x 3/16" thick. Sounds like a spearhead comin' up. :thumbup:

Some commercial, metal walking stick have carbide tips on the "business "end. The might make good "pokers."
Click to expand...

Mr. Linton, you are a genius!
I happen to have an old socketed chisel head myself!! Wow, that would leave a nasty mark as a spear tip!


I mean, an old broken peice of chisel, not that my head is socketed and chisel like :D
Just call me OLD CHISEL HEAD. :o
 
SkunkWerX said:
NOW, with that said, let's step back for a moment, and think about the basic premise here. You are stranded deep in the wilderness, like the guys in the "I shouldn't be alive" TV shows. I'd say your statistical chances of having a Wolf or Bear or other potentially "harmful" wild animal encounter has just risen in logrythmic proportion to the base population of North America.
Click to expand...

Having followed a few of those links, it doesn't look like you have to be stranded anywhere, or necessarily even "deep" in the wilderness, or even be injured, to have a bad wolf encounter. It also appears that if you believe all the stories floating around, then the chances of a wolf encounter are higher in some areas in North America than it has been in the last several decades. OTOH, this is somewhat by design since we've been reintroducing wolves into areas where they had previously been driven out of.

That said, there's also lots of stories floating around about people (frequently children) being attacked by mountain lions. Joggers in semi-wild areas near population centers sometimes have an unhappy mountain lion encounter as well.

And then sometimes people get attacked by bears.

And then sometimes people get attacked by packs of wild, but formerly domesticated, dogs.

And your pets, both dogs and cats, can be attacked and eaten by coyote, mountain lion, wolves, etc.

It's a bitch being out in the wilderness, that's for sure. My thinking is, if all the horror stories scare you, then stay out of the woods.

Look, the mass media is insanely good at scaring the crap out of us. Some kid shoots up a school thousands of miles away and suddenly we're all ready to ban all the bad guns. Some sex offender snatches a kid from a park hundreds of miles away, and suddenly we're wary of every male stranger we encounter, everywhere, all the time. Some guy tries to light his shoe on fire on a transatlantic flight and suddenly we all have to go barefoot everytime we get on a domestic flight. Oh, and now we can't bring water on the airplanes anymore.

The list goes on.

We can huddle in fear in beds (until a fat man in a small plane has a heart attack and crashes into our bedroom), or we can shrug it off and live our lives.

Personally, the only thing this thread has done is convince me to carry a gun when I go into the deep wilderness, especially if I'm doing it up north. That, and it makes me want to renew my tree-climbing skills. But a spear? Naw. It's interesting reading some of this stuff but I can hardly bring myself to bother with a walking stick, much less a spear.

We need a thread on the best way to carry a handgun when hiking/packpacking in the deep wilderness. Frankly, I don't think a gun in my backpack is going to do me any good if I really need it. But carrying it in a holster just encourages some park ranger to take it away. I guess it's good that I typically hike with a possibles bag.

Sorry for the off-topic rant....
 
Bulgron, good point, if you add up all of the possibilities, it becomes plausible you might have fend off a crazed platypus, despite Kevin carrying his sign "Don't Harm the Puss's" ).

The gun-carry thing was being discussed in practical-tactical. Legalities on Public lands, usage, for protection, all of that. It made my head hurt.

The spear was for the "I'm potential Bearfood" situation where you are stranded without many of the goodies we covet, like .357s, FusionBattleSmashers, and OxyAcetylene Torches for campfire building ;)

Your points are well taken. I'd worry more about encounters with badguys if nearer to civilization, and with BadAnimals if farther out in the hinterlands. Like you said, we are re-introducing Wolves. Coyotes are coming back strong, even out here in the east, they are in the Wash DC suburbs snatching small pets, wish they'd bite a few politicians and lawyers instead.
 
bulgron said:
We need a thread on the best way to carry a handgun when hiking/packpacking in the deep wilderness. Frankly, I don't think a gun in my backpack is going to do me any good if I really need it. But carrying it in a holster just encourages some park ranger to take it away. I guess it's good that I typically hike with a possibles bag.

Sorry for the off-topic rant....
Click to expand...

On your hip! Stay out of National/State Parks (not land, just the designated parks) and you should be OK. It is kind of an oddity to not see a pistol or revolver on a hip outside of established campgrounds around here.

Always carry, the number of predators, both two legged and four legged, is high.

Spears are fun, but a .44 Mag will do a lot better at stopping a predator. A spear is a good survival tool though. Quick and easy to make, material most places to make one, and can help even the odds.

Biggest problem with the wolf is not the wolf, but the politicians. Idaho legislature voted to tell congress not to re-introduce in Idaho (I believe Montana and Wyoming did the same). They then do not allow the states to manage the population to a sustainable number (last official count was approx 800-900 wolves in Idaho, given # for a sustainable population is around 600 if memory serves). Now, given that the pack just outside of Hell's canyon was established for about 3-5yrs before they were officially recognized (can't let people know they are moving into Oregon/Washington), the numbers are probably higher. We have wolves around Boise, with about 3 packs known to drop down in the winter into the foothills. They are around the ski resort 15min out of town. You do not have to go into the wilderness to run into a pack of wolves.

This is like some politician getting the idea there used to be wolves in NY, so they want to re-introduce them to central park. People vote NO, politicians say they are going to do it anyway.

--Carl
 
I just stumbled on this thread, four pages long! It makes me giggle when people argue the relative merits of spears vs. handguns vs. rifles vs. hammers vs. anything else. I'm sure a guy found in the wilderness with a rifle and plenty of ammunition has less use for a spear than someone with nothing but his clothes on! I'm sure there is a hierarchy of "useful" tools for survival against predetors, not all being equal. Just because I always carry a handgun when going into the woods (unless hunting, when I have a rifle or shotgun anyway), doesn't mean I shouldn't learn how to make a good spear. Someone else mentioned several other good uses for a spear (testing water depth, getting fruit from a tree, probing a footfall that may contain a snake). I sure don't want to test water depth by fastening a length of paracord on my Beretta 96 and throwing it into a river!

Each item has it's uses. None of them are completely useless. Some types of tools supersede others, loss of one higher on the list moves the "lesser" up the list!

That said, a knife is more valuable as a method of making other tools than the made tools themselves. I would never lash my only knife to a pole to make a better spear. I could make lots of inferior spears but could make none if my knife were lost on a bad throw or thrust as a spear head.

Would I stop my movement to lay down my perfectly good rifle to make a spear? Probably not, but when camped at night, spear making might be a good idea. May even leave it behind in the morning when I left. If I had a handgun and a knife, I would still make a spear to carry on the move. Anything to keep the predetor away till I could bring my handgun or knife into play.

The whole idea of survival is having enough knowledge to use/make a vast array of usable tools to suit the purpose. The guy who disdains one tool for another, as though they were interchangeable, has less chance to survive.

Spears = Good!
 
I don't think anyone was arguing or comparing a Spear vs. rifle vs pistol? The presumption was a Wilderness Survival situation where you had overturned your canoe, boat, or otherwise somehow ended up there without your full complement of gear.

Wilderness Survival is not only about selecting the correct gear, but, also, being able to improvise and overcome should you lose your rifle and/or pack in a swiftly running river, avalanche, or badguys.

I agree with your final summation, Spears=Good.

Just like the Best Knife, the best gear is what you have with you at the time or what you can fabricate from your environment.
 
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