The super steel rat race

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The steel I am most curious about these days is Cromax. It’s making its way across the entire Shiro lineup, but no one has done any testing as far as I know. Nobody really even knows what it is LOL…
Maybe Larrin knows more about it…?
 
I have a lot of different steels to reference because I have a lot of different knives. Now from 1095 through to MagnaCut. There are only a couple that are a pain in the ass to sharpen and that’s about the only reason I wouldn’t care for a particular steel. The facts are I don’t break down cardboard or skin elk for a living so edge longevity is of minor importance to me. I’ve been to processing plants where meat cutters are honing their Victorinox work knives all day long. That’s their reality.
 
If I have a choice in steels in two otherwise identical knives, and the price difference isn’t outrageous, I’ll go with the newer/better steel. Why? I have no idea - I’m not a heavy knife user that requires the hardest/best edge retention/most corrosion resistant materials. I guess it’s mostly just to be able to say I have x knife in y steel. However, there are a LOT of great looking knives out there using ‘lesser’ steels that I’ve been hunting and scrounging up lately, which for the most part and for my uses are perfectly up to any tasks I’d throw at them. In fact, many of these cheaper options look just as good as their more costly brethren, and in some cases feel and operate better.
 
mitchnola said:
My first few years getting into knives I was all about reading up on the next hot new steel but I have to admit, I’m completely over what steel I’m getting on any particular knife. It’s to the point that I don’t even consider or pay much attention to what steel I’m buying these days. If I like a knife I buy it. If I support certain makers, I buy them regardless of steel. At this point I know if I’m spending x amt of dollars Im getting a good steel.

The whole super steel rat race has just become ridiculous to me. It almost seems gimmicky to me so that people feel the need to own every pm2 in the next newest hottest steel for example.

There’s still no steel out there that wont dull, isn’t too hard or too soft and won’t be needed to be sharpened at some point. It will never exist until we figure out how to put a laser edge on a knife or come out with lightsabers.

I also find it amusing how quickly and suddenly the greatest steel ever becomes antiquated. It may only take a year or two. Magnacut will just be the next super steel to become antiquated. I really wonder how much all this steel innovation is solely just to sell more knives? It definitely seems to be the easiest innovation in the knife world, even more so then locking mechanisms.

So I’m just curious if I’m the only one and where or how I’m totally wrong. But otherwise I’m out the rat race. Just give me a great knife with a sharp edge that I can and will sharpen.
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I completely understand where you're coming from, no doubt many will agree. You really can't blame steel producers/knife makers for pushing latest greatest "super steels" as that's one way they survive and expand their market. I have never gone too far down the rabbit hole of super steels and the most super of super steel I own is CPM 3V. I have found A2, D2, 154cm etc worked great for me at substantially less $. I'm also old enough to remember when 440C was the super steel of its day. I'm also patient enough to wait until latest super steel is surpassed by another and get last super steel at much reduced $ if the steel has some properties that really interest me.

At this point, I'll take a good steel with a great HT over a modern super steel of unknown HT, and those producers who have their HT down to a science with boring old school steels abound.
 
AMR11 said:
Haven't tried out any magnacut blades, not really hype for it either. Seems like every company is releasing it in various ways. The way it's marketed is being a well rounded steel for various categories but yet doesn't out perform anything that's currently out. I don't get the point unless they're trying to replace "S30V". I've watched several reviews on the steel being tested. Doesn't seem like a bad steel option, I'm all about innovation. As for right now I'm more than happy with s30v as being a well rounded steel.
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As I said previously, it does stand out from the pack in both the toughness per edge retention, and the corrosion resistance per its other properties. FFS, it's more stainless than S110V.

Of course, someone previously mentioned that they didn't care about the latter. Sure, being stainless is just having a hedge against corrosion and most people get plenty of hedge for their needs with 440C or VG-10. The rest might just be gravy, or protection on that one time where it could have mattered. Either way, it's more affordable than Vanax. 😜
 
Synov said:
Sure, YouTube reviews trump scientific testing...

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I wouldn't essentially consider the catara "paper" test a toughness test. Edge retention yes. But from production stand point and what they are actually offered at...M4 is usually around 64 and 62 for magnacut. The test graph you showed m4 was at 60.5ish (low) and magnacut at 65(high). Obviously one will do better.
 
I can adapt my use and maintenance to a type of steel. Did that for a lifetime with simple inexpensive carbon steel knives with names like Schrade, Imperial, Colonial and Western. What happened to those companies?

I can adapt my carry choices in steel and heat treat to what I need for the job. Still plenty of buying opportunities there.

What I refuse to do is get upset because the market advances and the business responsibly keeps up and even tries to get ahead of the curve. That is how this country became great.

I thank God for making people restless enough and clear of vision to be able to do the things I've seen in my life. Thanks to Sal G, Phil Wilson, Gibbs, Dozier and on and on. Now we are seeing newer younger guys who are making their own trail and I'm thankful for every one of them . Larrin just did what no one did before . Not that anyone couldn't have . We have a lot of metallurgists in the world all advancing something. Larrin took the time away from his family and responsibilities to do what he did while I was sitting around watching anime and eating something my doctor wouldn't approve of. :) Then he worked with other knifemakers and testers and they did the same. Thank god for that.
 
AMR11 said:
I wouldn't essentially consider the catara "paper" test a toughness test. Edge retention yes. But from production stand point and what they are actually offered at...M4 is usually around 64 and 62 for magnacut. The test graph you showed m4 was at 60.5ish (low) and magnacut at 65(high). Obviously one will do better.
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No one claimed CATRA tests toughness, there's a separate test for that.

The hardness doesn't matter for this comparison, because if you made M4 harder for more edge retention it would also lose toughness. The balance of properties is what's similar.

Also you're comparing two completely different edge geometries in those videos, which matters far more than steel type.
 
It's just another facet of knives for us to geek out over.

In the early days, some steels were just BETTER than others, for most intents and purposes. Now, we've gotten to the point where we can pick and choose which criteria are most important to us. Want ultimate edge retention at the expense of stainlessness and toughness? → Maxamet. Want ultimate toughness and a good mix of other criteria? CruWear. Want ultimate corrosion resistance at the expense of edge retention because you'll be running a serrated edge?

There are a ton of steels (probably the ones the OP is buying) that are a nice mix of a lot of criteria. Like S30V or AUS-10A.

I think it pays to educate oneself on steels to some degree or another.

I remember going through a 1095 carbon steel renaissance phase. It's very tough, SO easy to sharpen and they get screaming sharp. Just OK edge retention though and it's near impossible to keep it looking clean. I thought Maxamet would be similar but with better edge retention, but it's notably more stain resistant and sharpening is a pain. Better hope the factory grind is good or you have diamond abrasives and a lot of patience. Better not hit any staples when cutting through a box either. But for the average box cutting duty? It stays sharp FOREVER.

I think you should buy yourself a cheaper knife, maybe a basic Cold Steel in 4116. You'll marvel at how nice the knife is, but how soft the blade is; remind yourself how good steel has gotten these days. It sounds like you're spoiled with good mid-high grade steels. ;-)
 
The Mastiff said:
I can adapt my use and maintenance to a type of steel. Did that for a lifetime with simple inexpensive carbon steel knives with names like Schrade, Imperial, Colonial and Western. What happened to those companies?

I can adapt my carry choices in steel and heat treat to what I need for the job. Still plenty of buying opportunities there.

What I refuse to do is get upset because the market advances and the business responsibly keeps up and even tries to get ahead of the curve. That is how this country became great.

I thank God for making people restless enough and clear of vision to be able to do the things I've seen in my life. Thanks to Sal G, Phil Wilson, Gibbs, Dozier and on and on. Now we are seeing newer younger guys who are making their own trail and I'm thankful for every one of them . Larrin just did what no one did before . Not that anyone couldn't have . We have a lot of metallurgists in the world all advancing something. Larrin took the time away from his family and responsibilities to do what he did while I was sitting around watching anime and eating something my doctor wouldn't approve of. :) Then he worked with other knifemakers and testers and they did the same. Thank god for that.
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I also don't see many here wanting to go back to dial up and the commodore 64.

I do wish it didn't require a degree in electrical engineering to work on vehicles these days though.
 
Synov said:
No one claimed CATRA tests toughness, there's a separate test for that.

The hardness doesn't matter for this comparison, because if you made M4 harder for more edge retention it would also lose toughness. The balance of properties is what's similar.

Also you're comparing two completely different edge geometries in those videos, which matters far more than steel type.
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Then why you sharing the catra test graph
 
Smaug said:
It's just another facet of knives for us to geek out over.

In the early days, some steels were just BETTER than others, for most intents and purposes. Now, we've gotten to the point where we can pick and choose which criteria are most important to us. Want ultimate edge retention at the expense of stainlessness and toughness? → Maxamet. Want ultimate toughness and a good mix of other criteria? CruWear. Want ultimate corrosion resistance at the expense of edge retention because you'll be running a serrated edge?

There are a ton of steels (probably the ones the OP is buying) that are a nice mix of a lot of criteria. Like S30V or AUS-10A.

I think it pays to educate oneself on steels to some degree or another.

I remember going through a 1095 carbon steel renaissance phase. It's very tough, SO easy to sharpen and they get screaming sharp. Just OK edge retention though and it's near impossible to keep it looking clean. I thought Maxamet would be similar but with better edge retention, but it's notably more stain resistant and sharpening is a pain. Better hope the factory grind is good or you have diamond abrasives and a lot of patience. Better not hit any staples when cutting through a box either. But for the average box cutting duty? It stays sharp FOREVER.

I think you should buy yourself a cheaper knife, maybe a basic Cold Steel in 4116. You'll marvel at how nice the knife is, but how soft the blade is; remind yourself how good steel has gotten these days. It sounds like you're spoiled with good mid-high grade steels. ;-)
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Just to clarify it’s not that I don’t recognize the quality of these steels but rather that I just don’t really pay much attention to them. There’s a new one coming out every 6 mos it seems and I don’t bother to keep up.

My first magnacut was on a les george esv and I didn’t even know it was the next hot new steal till after I had it and then came across people talking about it on bf. I currently probably have 5 knives in magnacut, none of which I bought because it had magnacut but rather it’s just what it came with.

As I said before I think it’s great that you’re garunteed a high quality steel once spending say over $100. I know that the amount of money i spend on knives that I’m getting a good steel so it’s no longer a consideration in whether or not to make the purchase. I don’t buy cheap knives and don’t have any cheap steels.

I actually would probably pay more attention to what steel I was getting if I was buying cheaper knives to be honest.

And yes, absolutely spoiled by all the great steels available.
 
My favorite knife at the moment is a Gerber Strongarm with 420HC carried as a neck knife. If Gerber were to come out with a StrongerArm in Magnacut (but with the same sheath), I would buy it instantly.
 
Another Shepherd said:
My favorite knife at the moment is a Gerber Strongarm with 420HC carried as a neck knife. If Gerber were to come out with a StrongerArm in Magnacut (but with the same sheath), I would buy it instantly.
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Couldn’t blame ya for that. Just curious though if the strongarm was s30, 45, 90 etc would you have the same urge to upgrade to magnacut?
 
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