"The Top of The Pops" The Next Generation of Knife Steels

Sharpnessis said:
I would like to see those super steals with differential heat treatment. Not the "sandwich jobs" spyderco has been doing, but actually differential heat treatment. Like how they used to to make samurai swords.
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Not sure how anyone could do that with the high alloy steels or why they would even want to if it was even possible as the blades would have to be processed one at a time.

Sandwich jobs?

The Japanese were the 1st ones to laminate the steels in making swords around 400 years ago, sometimes 3 different steels used then forged and folded.

They didn't do that just because it was a cool idea, they did it because it was needed due to the steels that were in use back then weren't as clean as they are today.
 
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Not sure how you would deferentially heat treat such high alloy steels. They harden in air. You take these high alloys out of the oven and set them on a wire rack in still air and they harden. The old blades of yore and similar are low to no alloy carbon steel, and have to be quenched fast (Water) to harden. This property is used to the sword makers advantage, as the spine is allowed to cool slowly compared to the fast quench of the edge.

Maybe you could draw some temper out of the back with a flame, but even then they may start to get brittle.

Interesting idea though. Hard edge soft spine...
 
Deferential heat treatment is accomplished by quenching in brine while repeating, "So sorry, honorable steel, beg your pardon."
 
could be done with lasers, or some really fancy induction heating setup, but tough to reason why due to the expense.
 
I don't think there will be too many new knife steels that make much of a difference. There truly is so many at hand now. I think this generation and next, the improvements will be in the processing of the steel, ie., manufacturing and heat treatment is where the improvements are. To some extent, there are many who have had this advancement for a long time, like what dozier could do with D2, what Busse did with A2(and infi), and so many more. A good example of this is when a steel is new and different makers try it. cpm3V is a great all around steel, however, I have had custom 3v knives that had worse performance than good HT'd 1095. Every time I hear of some new great knife it is almost always due to the maker knowing how to HT it very well and that is what sets them apart. I just don't think you can find a formula of steel that is that much better than what is already out there these days.
 
Cobalt said:
I don't think there will be too many new knife steels that make much of a difference. There truly is so many at hand now. I think this generation and next, the improvements will be in the processing of the steel, ie., manufacturing and heat treatment is where the improvements are. To some extent, there are many who have had this advancement for a long time, like what dozier could do with D2, what Busse did with A2(and infi), and so many more. A good example of this is when a steel is new and different makers try it. cpm3V is a great all around steel, however, I have had custom 3v knives that had worse performance than good HT'd 1095. Every time I hear of some new great knife it is almost always due to the maker knowing how to HT it very well and that is what sets them apart. I just don't think you can find a formula of steel that is that much better than what is already out there these days.
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All they need to do is start using more CPM S90V in production knives like Spyderco is doing.

CPM S110V and CPM 10V in production knives in a good hardness range also.
 
I agree, those steels are the next logical step, if costs can be brought down. These steels won't make much of a splash in the production world if they're all double the price of similar fair in s30v and cpm-154.
 
Why can't we have more nitrogen based steels like Vanax 35 & 75? The powdered steel thing is being done with traditional alloys like 154CM to good effect. If swapping carbon with nitrogen could be done more often we could have stainless O-1 or 5160. I don't understand all of the technology but the possibility is enough to keep this stuck in my mind.
 
ZDP-189, which William Henry HTs to HRC 67. But they use it as a core to softer SS damascus steels. Spydie also uses this steel. It is hard and holds an edge, but very hard to sharpen and can be chippy (reportedly).
 
Jean Luc, I look at ZDP-189 as one my favorite steels being that it is in my favorite carry blades (Stretch CF/FRN). I was intimidated sharpening it at first because of what I have read, but I sharpened it on the edge pro and I kid not it was as easy to sharpen as any other. I didn't reprofile it though (I assume there won't be any difficulties reprofiling, might take longer), just maintained the 30 degree factory edge and added a 40 degree microbevel. The trick with sharpening ZDP really is to make sure to not apply too much pressure especially on the last passes of each stone to make sure all of the burr is removed and avoid bending the edge. I also use a deburring block and strop afterwards, something I do with every blade I sharpen. The steel has performed very well and isn't prone to chips in my experience.

It holds an edge for a very long time. As a matter of fact, before I sharpened it on the EP, I maintained the factory edge simply by stropping and honing on EF ceramic and if you keep it from being dull, you can maintain it for a looong time. I got a laser beam in my Stretch, love using it everytime. I don't know why ZDP isn't called super steel as often anymore, but it has performed that way for me. JDavid/CTS has a review on the Stretch ZDP and a sharpening results vid/input on ZDP. Cool vid worth checking out.
 
james terrio said:
It's been done, but I really don't see any point to it.
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Don't you think that diff HT on a high end SS like S30V would increase toughness tremendously while maintaining the edge holding and corrosion resistance and allow it to be used in a larger knife that would normally be a much tougher carbon steel.
 
Cobalt, I believe this would have a positive effect on toughness, but only marginally in a blade under 8" or so, since the forces are so small in comparison.

The only time such processes like differential hardening or laminating are used is when they make a large difference or represent the only viable option, due to their cost, for the application. You can imagine a Katana, with only plain carbon steel as a blade material, needing at once toughness and edge holding that a single level of hardness in a single grade of steel just couldn't provide at the time. Thus, to make blades at once sharp and tough enough for their application, differential hardening was used.

For shorter blades, undergoing exponentially smaller forces, S30V for example is already plenty tough for a true knife (under 10" blade), and it may even be good on blades out a bit further than that. If one were forced to use it on a sword however, and had no other option for blade material, differential hardening may be an option to help it maintain enough toughness and wear resistance for that application. Of course, it would be much simpler and easier to just order some L6 or 5160 instead.

So, simply put, it may be helpful to do a differential HT on high-end stainless knives, just not enough to make a practical difference.


In other news, I'm still curious about the Cowry steels and how they stack up vs. steels like M390 and S90v.
 
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