the "ultralight" crowd...

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I know I love my little titanium pot that fits the bottom of a nalgene bottle :eek: Does that make me an UL Geek!!

I really don't think it is any different than us spending endless threads discussing the pros and cons of the Kephart blade VS the Aurora VS the Nessmuk VS the ............... On and on and on...

The UL guys are probably thinking "JUST FRIGGIN PICK A KNIFE ALREADY!!!!!" :D

Doc
 
BlackHills said:
That made me laugh. And think of this.... ;)

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LOL! That's funny, I seem to remember something similar, myself. Ultralight, it wasn't. The Corps idea of ultralight was not having to carry the base-plate for an 81.
 
All other things being equal, I'll choose light or heavy, but there comes a point where you've just to be honest about what you're giving up for the sake of a few ounces. I know I'm more critical of pack weight when I'm climbing and have to haul climbing gear, but I still do my best not to go without.
 
I've done the ultralight thing. It can be a lot of fun to actually go that minimal, because you need to fall back on skills to take place of gear.

Think of it as wilderness skills training.

I also like the competition side of it too.......constantly trying to outdo each other in how light one can go, or how extreme one can mod their gear. It doesn't have to be unsafe either, if you know what your doing.
 
flipe8 said:
All other things being equal, I'll choose light or heavy, but there comes a point where you've just to be honest about what you're giving up for the sake of a few ounces. I know I'm more critical of pack weight when I'm climbing and have to haul climbing gear, but I still do my best not to go without.
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I agree: all other things being equal, one should choose light over heavy, but what's the cut-off point where common sense overrides the "look how light I am" thing?

For a lot of the ultra light crowd (at least ones that I've known) bragging rights for lightness is an all consuming game: actually hiking is secondary. Sure, they've pared their weight down to almost nothing, but at what cost? God help them if they ever have a true emergency situation.
 
Like a friend of mine said that when he went back packing, he just took his wheel borrow.:D
 
I'm all for cutting ounces from my load; it means I can carry more knives:D



Razor said:
Like a friend of mine said that when he went back packing, he just took his wheel borrow.:D
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I don't know if you are joking, but I honestly saw a couple hiking to a backcountry campsite with a wheelbarrow last year. I laughed to myself, but it probably was easier to push than carry everything they had with them.
 
It's easy to laugh at some of the ultralight backpacking tendencies; but, the concept behind all the fad is the important part. It's a very valid concept; only humping what you need, multi-use items, lightening the load makes it easier on your body in the long run.
 
I've been both fascinated and frustrated by the ultralight crowd. I've only been backpacking for about 4 years now, but in all my trips up to a week long I have never had to carry more than 40 pounds, usually more like 35. I have had the lightest pack by a good margin in almost every group I've hiked with. I own... zero pieces of "ultralight" equipment. In fact, most of my equipment is rather inexpensive and heavy. Guess I did get an MSR Dragonfly this fall, but that's not even a true lightweight stove.

That 35 lb load in my pack carries food, clothes, tent/shelter, water, a good knife, cooking equipment, first aid supplies, and sometimes fishing gear for a week-long trip. Actually, when I carry my own tent it adds up to more like 40lbs, but I digress.

The point of my post (if there really is one) is that you can really lighten your load just by packing smart. What I bring is what I need. Last spring I hiked with a group where almost everybody had 50+ pound packs for five days. If you like carrying that, you won't get argument from me. But I'm not carrying it for you!

And if somebody wants to lecture me on saving a few ounces by switching to an ultralight ti poop spoon, I will ignore them and enjoy my hike anyway! That's the real point of going backpacking, isn't it? If thinking about my gear surpasses my enjoyment of the hike, something isn't right, and I should probably do something other than backpacking.
 
rocketbomb said:
I've been both fascinated and frustrated by the ultralight crowd. I've only been backpacking for about 4 years now, but in all my trips up to a week long I have never had to carry more than 40 pounds, usually more like 35. I have had the lightest pack by a good margin in almost every group I've hiked with. I own... zero pieces of "ultralight" equipment. In fact, most of my equipment is rather inexpensive and heavy. Guess I did get an MSR Dragonfly this fall, but that's not even a true lightweight stove.

That 35 lb load in my pack carries food, clothes, tent/shelter, water, a good knife, cooking equipment, first aid supplies, and sometimes fishing gear for a week-long trip. Actually, when I carry my own tent it adds up to more like 40lbs, but I digress.

The point of my post (if there really is one) is that you can really lighten your load just by packing smart. What I bring is what I need. Last spring I hiked with a group where almost everybody had 50+ pound packs for five days. If you like carrying that, you won't get argument from me. But I'm not carrying it for you!

And if somebody wants to lecture me on saving a few ounces by switching to an ultralight ti poop spoon, I will ignore them and enjoy my hike anyway! That's the real point of going backpacking, isn't it? If thinking about my gear surpasses my enjoyment of the hike, something isn't right, and I should probably do something other than backpacking.
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:thumbup:
 
I'm an ultralight hiker, by choice. I do not eat my food with the same tool with which I bury my shit. There are sensible ways to go ultralight without compromising comfort.

It is entertaining to read about what color boots one should wear, or what is the latest tacticool pack and nobody seems to balk. Yet, when it comes to preferences on one's method of hitting the trail, if it is not "en vogue" on the current forum, you're classified as "one of those". Give me a break.
 
There's nothing wrong with going sensibly light. I do it too. And I'm not bashing hikers, I am a hiker. I hike a lot. I take what I need and don't worry too much about weight within reason. I don't want to carry a bunch of weight I don't need.

I think going out so light that you're not prepared to deal with an injury, bad weather, getting lost or any other unforseen problem that threatens your life or health is very foolhardy.

And you can't honestly tell me that folks that brag about shaving half an ounce here or there could tell the difference if someone slipped a couple ounces in their pack without them knowing. They'd never even know it or feel it.

So I don't mind folks going as light as possible while still being responsible to their safety and comfort. But when someone tells me (and this honestly happened) that a firesteel is "too big and bulky to pack around", I want to tie the long hair on their heads to the short ones on their a$$ and kick them down a flight of stairs.:D (joking, sort of but it does irritate me) Then they throw their jet boil stove and an extra fuel can in their pack. I just don't get or buy that mentality. Sorry.

No offense to any of the ultralight crowd posting in this thread.:thumbup:
 
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WolfTracker said:
I'm an ultralight hiker, by choice. I do not eat my food with the same tool with which I bury my shit. There are sensible ways to go ultralight without compromising comfort.

It is entertaining to read about what color boots one should wear, or what is the latest tacticool pack and nobody seems to balk. Yet, when it comes to preferences on one's method of hitting the trail, if it is not "en vogue" on the current forum, you're classified as "one of those". Give me a break.
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I'm tired of all of the "keyboard commando" and "cubicle commando" and "mall ninja" and the rest of that myself.

For one thing, you list your place of residence as Florida, it's a hell of a lot easier to go into extremes of paring your gear down in that environment than in others.

I don't think that you would be an ultralight hiker by anything other than choice...?

A lot of people think I get really angry about stuff. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. But this has really upset you and I think that is a mindset...that has more going on than "survival."

I put survival in front of the rest of the stuff. I think the problem with a lot of people into ultralight stuff is they put that, their passion and their hobby, in front of the other thing, survival, and it clouds their judgment.

Not saying you, but you seemed to be very offended by what has been said in this thread and it's really mild.
 
My dad told me a long time ago to "always remember learn the basics. Learn the basics and you can do anything." That's the issue at stake here isn't it? How do you learn the basics of being a good hiker? You could read books which is what a lot of people do or you could go hiking and learn from experience. How do you learn proper survival techniques? Again, you could read books or you could practice and evaluate what will work for you in your chosen environment. If given a choice between carrying a butterknife and a mora, I know which is more practical but only because I practiced with both. I now have an excellent understanding of what is truly necessary for me for a multi week outing and, yes, light weight is a VERY important factor. You may consider the more traditional pieces of gear your ideal but I would rather carry gear that has the same BASIC function but with less mass. If I am carrying less mass then I don't need to carry as much food to fuel me. If were driving a F-250 pickup truck 300 miles how much gas would I use? How much would I use for the same trip if I were in a Corolla? What it boils down to for me is that light weight and ultralight are perfectly fine as long as I am able to meet basic criteria that I have learned from first hand experience.
 
Nah, my skin's a little thicker than that, Don. :) Nothing in this thread has offended me. It takes a lot to really get me going; Especially on the Internet. No harm, no foul here.

Thanks for the observation and comments. You are correct that the environment in which I hike lends itself to going light (for me), and that is one of the main reasons why I do it.

I think that my frustration lies with what you yourself had stated in the first sentence of your reply. Maybe I need to take a short hiatus and come back with a fresh perspective.

Chris
 
Countryboy just brought up a good distinction, at least in my mind, and that's the term "sensibly light." It seem to me that "ultra light" is a religion for some people — to the exclusion of all else — and that's fine, for those who want to worship at that alter. We all have things we do that we like, and not all those things are the same for all people.

I'm with countryboy in that, for me, sensibly light is the way to go. I would imagine that the ultra light crowd would look down their noses at the things I take with me, yet the things I take are important to me. I take what I think I might need, and nothing more: but nothing less, either. I believe in being prepared, and being comfortable when I get to wherever it is that I'm going.

Almost everything I have is mil surp, or odds and ends from various bargain basements. Is it the lightest stuff available? Not by a long shot, but it's sturdy and inexpensive. I won't pay $200 for the lightest, greatest ultralight pack, when a surplus Alice pack will serve my needs just as well. Yeah, it weighs a little more, but it works just fine. If the weight slows me down a little, so what? I'm in no hurry.

I've been doing this for many, many years, and I've learned what to take and — more importantly — what not to take. What I take is sensibly light for me.

Ultralighter's can pursue lightness above all if they wish, and those who want to prove how much they can carry are welcome to do that, too. For me, I'll take what I need... which is light enough.
 
dawsonbob said:
look down their noses
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There seems to be some of that here. At least on the surface. How do we know if someone is or isn't prepared? Short of seeing some rube walking into the woods naked and pouring honey on himself, I would prefer to withhold judgement on what a person actually needs to survive. What I really like about this forum is not the survival aspect (which I think gets a lot of good attention). It is the wilderness aspect. I grew up on the Mississippi Gulf Coast where it was only common sense to stock up for hurricane season. The mentality I learned there was to prepare for the worst then get on with enjoying everything else. That is what can be expected from me if you meet me on a trail. And saving myself from muscle strain and exhaustion definitley falls into the "preparing" category.
 
When I look at purchasing something new I factor the weight in....but it's not the only thing I take into account. I'm not going to sacrifice safety to save one pound. But, if the article is lighter and fine for my needs then why not buy the lighter one?

It all boils down to deciding what works for you and what compromises you're willing to make.
 
All this on a subforum that would likely have complete respect for a person going into the woods and making do with only a knife and his brains for a week....yet give that man 10 more pounds of gear and send him on a hiking trip ...call him an "ultralighter" and ...disdain. Intresting dichotomy dont you think. WSS used to be such a great place to learn stuff. More and more this is the kind of thing Im seeing.

I would rather have liked to see some fruitful discussion about how this or that CANNOT be acheived with light weight gear and what some useful/practical alternatives are, rather than just bashing a group for the joy of it. You might find that some folks into ultralight backpacking are actually experienced outdoor-people with very well thought out solutions to being in the outdoors. Not just the latest greatest high dollar high tech equiptment and a head full of mush .

What is being learned from this thread other than that people will always get into groups and talk crap about other people in other groups.

Ill go back to my cave now.
 
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