the "ultralight" crowd...

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Runsalone said:
All this on a subforum that would likely have complete respect for a person going into the woods and making do with only a knife and his brains for a week....yet give that man 10 more pounds of gear and send him on a hiking trip ...call him an "ultralighter" and ...disdain. Intresting dichotomy dont you think. WSS used to be such a great place to learn stuff. More and more this is the kind of thing Im seeing.
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No, I don't believe that is true at all. I don't think Aaron Ralston was respected in here at all. What he did was awe-inspiring, he had to amputate his hand with his multi-tool. There is your mandatory knife content you cited. And he survived for I don't know how many days total, which you cited "a week." I don't write this to point out that he was an "ultralighter," I don't know what else he had on him but I am betting he was more "ultralighter" than "survivalist." He survived despite his own apparent best attempt at suicide by stupidity.

I would rather have liked to see some fruitful discussion about how this or that CANNOT be acheived with light weight gear and what some useful/practical alternatives are, rather than just bashing a group for the joy of it. You might find that some folks into ultralight backpacking are actually experienced outdoor-people with very well thought out solutions to being in the outdoors. Not just the latest greatest high dollar high tech equiptment and a head full of mush.
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I started out in this thread by saying they do a lot of research and this has led to some great advancements for people not involved in their sport/hobby...but that's not enough. No, when confronted with religious fervor, ANY disagreement, ANY thing other than total praise and worship is going to be met with hostility.

What is being learned from this thread other than that people will always get into groups and talk crap about other people in other groups.

Ill go back to my cave now.
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And what spurs it on? Maniacs caught up in the heat of their religion, caught up in their passion, telling people they don't need this, that and the other. This is too heavy, this takes up too much space. And most of what they are talking about are ludicrous examples and that's why people look at them and laugh. Unless you are one of the people shaving to save weight and all of the other nutty stuff being talked about in here, why are you getting offended? Is it because you are sitting there with a can of foaming goo in one hand and a razor in the other or...because you just want to be offended?

I don't see the lunacy in this thread, I don't see it from you or anyone else. But I have seen it on other forums and DAMN! Isn't that what this thread was about anyway?
 
angle iron said:
Packorexia
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LOL. Now that's funny right there.

Actually, I was wondering more about those who forgo things like FAK's and emergency equipment just to be able to brag about how light they travel. There's got to be a happy medium somewhere (at least for me).

I'm old (mid sixties), and parts of me don't work as well as they used to (and hurt when they do work), but there's a minimum to what I feel comfortable going out with.

Yes, I can go out with a small knife and a canteen and survive. I used to do it all the time when I was young, but now there are things (like a FAK and a saw) that I don't leave home without. No, I can't carry as much as I used to, but no Packorexia for me.
 
pretty silly to try and peg folks w/ one label or the other IMO

there is a LOT to learn from ultralight hikers, we owe much of the technological advances in outdoor equipment to folks who are "ultralighters"

likewise "ultralighters" can certainly learn a thing or two from "bushcrafters"

actually both groups have more in common than they do different- both groups enjoy getting outdoors in a pristine environment, both groups have the utmost respect for mother nature, both generally take a overall minimalistic view of recreating, both groups have respect for folks that are innovative and make their own gear

anybody passionate about getting out and enjoying what Mother Nature has to offer is OK in my book

my .02
 
dawsonbob said:
Yes, I can go out with a small knife and a canteen and survive. I used to do it all the time when I was young, but now there are things (like a FAK and a saw) that I don't leave home without.
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And alcohol.....and good food. I admire bearthedog for his stuff, but there is no way in hell I'm going to go hiking for two days and bring 4 protein bars as food. Sorry, I like to eat and enjoy the outdoors at the same time. However, that said, one of the ways to really save weight is to manage your meals and meal choices better. Throwing in extra snacks and stuff can really add the weight. Also adding more clothes than needed easily becomes excessive. Since cloths and food are things packed on demand, they can be areas where you put on the pounds even if all your gear is light weight and well organized and thought out.
 
What really gets me is the guys who pack a ultralight, titanium, stake/poop trowel in the first place. Couldn't you save the weight of the trowel by replacing it with a broken and dry stick? If you need a titanium trowel to dig a shallow hole in the ground to poop in, you may be too incompetent to step foot in the woods in the first place.
 
To me minimumalist and ultralight are a challenge and I love it ... like my knives and my kits, all designed to give me what I need without the load being unbearable.
Didn't the ultralight thing come from climbing originally?
 
:D A titanium poop trowel. That is hilarious.

Personally, I didn't know you needed to dig a hole to take a crap. I just make sure I take it far enough away from camp and upwind. :D
 
kgd said:
And alcohol.....and good food. I admire bearthedog for his stuff, but there is no way in hell I'm going to go hiking for two days and bring 4 protein bars as food. Sorry, I like to eat and enjoy the outdoors at the same time. However, that said, one of the ways to really save weight is to manage your meals and meal choices better. Throwing in extra snacks and stuff can really add the weight. Also adding more clothes than needed easily becomes excessive. Since cloths and food are things packed on demand, they can be areas where you put on the pounds even if all your gear is light weight and well organized and thought out.
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Hallelujah, brother Ken, hallelujah. Some of these young whippersnappers just don't get it... yet. Wait till they have a few more years on them.
 
Blais said:
What really gets me is the guys who pack a ultralight, titanium, stake/poop trowel in the first place. Couldn't you save the weight of the trowel by replacing it with a broken and dry stick? If you need a titanium trowel to dig a shallow hole in the ground to poop in, you may be too incompetent to step foot in the woods in the first place.
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:thumbup::thumbup::D
 
Mmmmmm .... digging a hole with a stick is not that easy most of the hike locations I go to ... nothing worse than a nugget trying to see the light of day and your busy diggin a hole. There are times I've dug the mandatory hole with my bush blade but that tends to do too much damage to the blade. I carry a tough little metal spade for crapping cos I cant afford a titanium one although I would if I could. I'v butchered the spade to reduce the weight and forgotten to take it on the odd occasion regrettably. An approach to enjoying our wilderness is to leave as little impact as possible including cutting branches off trees and altering the natural environment.
Take nothing but photos and leave nothing but footprints.
 
TwinBlade said:
:D A titanium poop trowel. That is hilarious.

Personally, I didn't know you needed to dig a hole to take a crap. I just make sure I take it far enough away from camp and upwind. :D
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If only 10,000 people use a wilderness area in a year's time and poop three times each, those 30,000 poops add up. Yeah, it might not be so important to S&S if you are on your own private property. But "freestyle pooping" in public parks and wilderness areas is a good way to transmit disease like cholora etc.

I agree that a stick or a rock makes a decent digging tool, but I am sure there are areas which I don't frequent which would require a mtal trowel if not a pickax. OTOH, there are some lighter weight plastic trowels on the market now. Even lighter than titanium.
 
like any community, the ultralight crowd is going to have their extreme personalities. they have a lot of good ideas just like any big group with a following.

the big thing, as far as i am concerned, regarding their gear, is DOES IT REALLY WORK. - a lot of their stuff doesn't do well, especially long term or crossing major environments, like going from desert to boreal forest. - that's most of California, where so many of these folks go.

silnylon, for example, is a complete joke to me, God Bless ya if ya like it though.

as someone with a SAR background, i seriously doubt you could see a polished titanium spoon as a signalling device, unless the guy's mouth was as big as a shark's or something - that'd have to be one big spoon.

the ECO Hawk and the RIBZ, the latter of which was developed by a new buddy, are both efforts to stay in that nice sane middle ground, where we want to have enough, but with options.

the Rule of Nuff, as folks say nowadays....


would i rather have a full-sixed axe over an ECO Hawk in most cases in the woods? absolutely.

you gonna carry it for me? absolutely not?

:cool::thumbup:


take stuff that can get it done, and don't take anything less.

that's where the danger lays in ultralight for ultralight's sake; DOES IT REALLY WORK.

.......


having a tool or some bit of kit that has multiple purposes is a great idea, ultralighters don't hold the patent on that, but i think ultralighters have too little back-up. - i think their reasons are based on ego; you talk to most of them and they are anti-social loners, or sometimes elitists, so i doubt they are going to have a buddy there to help them. - that's not hiker bashing BTW, that's just an observable part of their culture.

how are you going to help someone else too, ego-boy? - i mean, come on! - join humanity, right, my brethren...?

when i screw up and break my leg hiking, the first thing that is going to go through my mind as i reach in my RIBZ for a finger of Jack Daniels and i tie my ECO Hawk onto my walking stick to get a traction rig going, is "my wife is never going to let me hear the end of this."

that's what "Nuff" gear does for you IMHO; Peace of Mind is the default reaction.

........

i've found these ultralight sorts of people in San Gorgonio Wilderness - it ain't pretty when things go bad for them.

and it always does sooner or later.

ultralight prayers for 'em. :D

vec
 
IMHO - extremists are a small percentage. Good ideas they come up with can be refined to work for individual needs.
 
dartanyon said:
Mmmmmm .... digging a hole with a stick is not that easy most of the hike locations I go to ... nothing worse than a nugget trying to see the light of day and your busy diggin a hole. There are times I've dug the mandatory hole with my bush blade but that tends to do too much damage to the blade. I carry a tough little metal spade for crapping cos I cant afford a titanium one although I would if I could. I'v butchered the spade to reduce the weight and forgotten to take it on the odd occasion regrettably. An approach to enjoying our wilderness is to leave as little impact as possible including cutting branches off trees and altering the natural environment.
Take nothing but FATWOOD and leave nothing but footprints.
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fixed it for you :D
 
Yes, most of the equipment the serious UL'ers tout and use is very functional. The main problem I have with a lot of it is the cost/benefit ratio. In a lot of instances, the titanium stuff is too expensive for the durability and weight savings over more traditional materials like annodized aluminum or even the new plastics. For instance, I looked at a plate, bowl, cup and KFS set in titanium. I wound up buying GSI plastic ware which is nearly as durable and lighter. Not to mention 1/3 the cost. I have no doubt that a lotof people play at the UL game without the knowledge and skills to back them up though, as your experience illustrates. But the serious ones work hard to become proficcient at their sport. And most I have met are not anti-social. They are just folks, albeit with more disposable income (tech gear upgrades) than some of us here. $1,200 for one suit of clothes? I think not!
 
No worries Bushman.
I think its even a bit hypocritical of me even to say "leave nothing" when we are leaving a little packet of kryptonite with a squirt of bear grylls juice.
 
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