the "ultralight" crowd...

[jackknife]

There is nothing wrong in itself with going ultra light, if you do know what your doing if something outside the normal backpacking senerio goes down.

When you get the far side of 50 you start thinking about the stuff in that pack. When you get the far side of 60, it becomes very important what is not in the pack. Now in my late 60's, I still like going out on the A.T now and then, but am I supposed to just give it up because of some age related problems? curl up in a nice nursing home and never venture out to places where I get such peace and enjoyment? Or figure out what I don't really need and go with a 25 or 30 pound pack?

Nothng wrong with cutting pounds as long as it doesn't get out of hand. Too much closed minded sneering of the ultra light crowd. Read Johm MUir's book on travleing the Sierra Neveda's with a canvas bag containing a pot, somne oatmeal, and a canteen. Or read about Grandma Gatewood. There was a senior citizen ultra light backpacker before most of us were born. She got by just fine, and without 20 pounds of cutlery.

 

[Dannyboy Leather]

Ultralight back packing is a contest to see who can carry the least weight.

Interesting. I have been backpacking since the 1960's (Loooong before "ultralight"), belonged to a number of backpacking clubs over the years (still do), thru-hiked the AT, PCT, CDT, and a number of other trails around this country and in other countries, with many thousands of miles under our feet and backpacks. In all my experiences on the trails, I have never heard anyone think or mention anything about their techniques and chosen methods as a "contest." I would suggest that anyone who thinks along these lines has never done any real serious backpacking.

"Ultralight" backpacking isn't about how little you can take on the trail and get away with it. Ultralight is about making careful and thoughtful gear selection that best accommodates your skill level, requirements and needs. And, yes, these requirements must address your comfort, security, and safety also. Ultralight backpacking isn't about "less", it is about having "more" in terms of safety, freedom (you don't look like a mountain mule!), more energy, more time to explore without having to drop that heavy pack, greater flexibility and dexterity on-the-trail and in towns along the way, the list goes.

I am also a living history reenactor. We do "historical trekking." Historical trekking is not sitting around the rendezvous with the cast iron (I enjoy that, too) but it is about traveling and camping much like our Colonial Longhunters or Mountain Men did years past. Yep, it is about canvas, leather, linen, muzzleloaders, shooting and possible bags, the wool blanket bedroll, long knives and small pole axes, copper muckets and tin lined brass kettles. And, no pre-packaged foods here! The diet is simple, historically correct, and perhaps not altogether healthy by todays standards. But it provides you with that "experimental archaeology" experience that most serious historical reenactors seek out and pursue. We live within the limitations of the period - mentally and physically - so we can better understand and appreciate our past. I said all that to say this: I know what packing "heavy" is too!

With the technology that we have today, we are fortunate to have so many options to meet our needs around camp or on the trail. In some of the other countries that we have backpacked in; our guides had very little options when it came to their equipment choices. All of these guides traveled "ultralight" by our standards, BTW. And, I seriously doubt they would have let the backpacking manufacturing markets dictate to them what a "successful" backpacker needed on the trail (can't say the same for many of us!!). Not once did these guides display a sense of paranoia because they lacked the volume of equipment, but it was quite obvious they were very comfortable with what they carried and were very skilled at using it. Really, why do we need to be different?

How many of you know about Grandma Gatewood? She was one of our greatest ultralight backpackers ever! If Grandma Gatewood had carried what most of us carry today on the trail, she could never have accomplished what she did! Hers is an amazing story! She covered thousands of miles, on foot, at an age that most of us are pulling up a rocking chair. We can learn something from Grandma Gatewood!

Grandma (Emma) Gatewood all packed and ready for the trail. http://www.trailtherapy.org/Grandma_Gatewood.html

 

[beef]

I'm an ultralighter. If done sensibly, it's a great idea. Carry less stuff and be safe and comfortable. Faultless.
On my recent trip to Canada, I carried enough down gear to have 5" of loft above and below my hammock, super warm gear covered by a massive tarp. Yet my baseweight was still 15lb. For a winter baseweight, that's still on the verge of ultralight. And my emergency gear still included 2 knives, saw, garbage bags, poncho, FAK etc.

People seem to focus on the crazy or inexperienced ultralighters. Yet I notice that many on many different forums that bag ultralighters tend to be people who don't venture more than 5 or 10 miles from the car anyway. Please note that this is not directed against the OP or anyone in particular. Ultralight allows older or less physically able hikers to keep enjoying the bush with a reduced risk of injury. It also allows the physically able to cover huge distances if they wish.

I've posted it before, but Franis Tapon, the ultralighter who yoyo'd the PCT with a 5lb baseweight showed that skills are more important than gear. And even though he's a hiker rather than bushcrafter/survivalist, I have no doubt that he could handle himself if an emergency presented itself.
http://www.francistapon.com/

 

[Any Cal.]

Good point Runsalone.

I sit sort of inbetween, and feel like I have learned from both sides. My backpack alone weighs several pounds less than most, and the last long trip I did, it was light enough to carry for another 20+ miles after I hurt my knee. Yes, it has some expensive, fancy gear in it.

Those I camp with though, don't necessarily do things the same way, and I get to see the benefits of those things. On my last trip, I had some soup that I brought along for lunch the next day, a bit of cream and honey for tea, and some scotch in a small flask. Obviously not ultralight, but I chose to make certain sacrifices for the return.

While a person could look down on ultralighters because they chose not to agree with them, a better way might be able to learn certain things from them, in order to enable yourself to do or enjoy more on a trip. Because of the things I have learned not to carry, or lightened up a LOT, I am able to carry more of what I WANT, and have an easier time on the trail.

I could carry a traditional style pack, or for a similiar amount of weight, carry my pack, a 20* down bag, and a sleeping pad. If you were carrying a trad pack with a wool blanket, I could also have a stove, pot, fuel, food for a couple days, and a water filter. While I really like traditional gear, it is not necessarily an end-all, just a different choice.

Ultralight can be taken to several levels of extreme, and area/climate make a huge impact on whether or not it would be dangerous/stupid.

 

[flipe8]

You might find that some folks into ultralight backpacking are actually experienced outdoor-people with very well thought out solutions to being in the outdoors.

I would assume pretty much nothing less if those same people came to that conclusion from experience. I know my gear has changed as my skills increased, but I also know that with those reductions the definition of "roughing it" goes up in some ways. Two days into a 350km self-supported adventure race, we found out you can endure a forced "dark zone"(off the water due to stormy conditions at night) with little more than a wetsuit, PFD, emergency bivies and group huddle for warmth, but it sucked!! I love the challenge of me vs nature, but it's still within reason and directly related to what I'm doing. It's still all a balance and very much personal.

Good points:thumbup:

 

[Dannyboy Leather]

I would rather have liked to see some fruitful discussion about how this or that CANNOT be acheived with light weight gear and what some useful/practical alternatives are, rather than just bashing a group for the joy of it. You might find that some folks into ultralight backpacking are actually experienced outdoor-people with very well thought out solutions to being in the outdoors. Not just the latest greatest high dollar high tech equiptment and a head full of mush .

This sort of thinking makes for a successful forum!! A forum where a variety of people with a variety of skills and experiences will enjoy coming! I belong to a couple of these forums (usually private forums) where we enjoy hearing/reading each others thoughts and ideas without having to be concerned about criticism! Always, without exception, critical and negative people will strangle a forum and their "quality people" numbers will be small (I have moderated, and do moderate, forums and have some clue about this matter).

 

[Pritch]

In the past year I have shed ten pounds off my pack weight by replacing key items with UL options. My 3-season total pack weight is now just over 20 lbs, including full-sized binoculars and a fishing rod & reel. Lightening up the pack makes it easier to carry all of that evil steel we all love to carry outdoors.

 

[J. Doyle]

I can appreciate the comments of some of the 'ultralighters' here. It sounds like most weighing in are making good choices on their gear and also have packing experience besides.

I'd bottom line it, for me, like this:

It's not about what you're pack weighs when you hit the trail. It's about situational awareness; knowing your area and your skills and also your limitations. Then pack accordingly.

I hike mostly here in the northern rockies. I've been snowed on hard in the end of July and put on every piece of clothing I had with me. When I see folks heading into the mountains wearing shorts, t-shirts and tennis shoes, or more often than you might believe, flip flops, with a five mile destination and no jacket, then that's pretty poor planning. Even if it is sunny and 80 degrees when you hit the trail head.

When someone chooses to go hiking without at least one way to start a fire, no matter where the location, I think that's pretty poor planning.

When someone chooses to go hiking without some sort of knife or SAK or at the least a small razor blade, I think that's poor planning.

Basically, when anyone goes out without being at least a little prepared for an unexpected change, I think is poor planning.

And when someone says to me that a firesteel is 'too big and bulky to pack around' that's just lunacy. If they prefer another method, fine. I'm good with that. But if it's a size weight thing, refer to my earlier post about getting a checkup.

I would bet that any of you that described yourselves as the ultralight type don't fall into these categories so, I at least, have no issues with your methods. You all seem very capable and logical in your decisions for how you pack.:thumbup:

 

[Ramm9]

I was writing this when you just posted Countryboy and it is not in response to your post (which I agree with). More an example of picking and choosing to best advantage.

There’s ultra light and then there’s ULTRA LIGHT. Either way, if your lugging stuff on your back one of the postage scales is well worth the investment.

Let’s see, I’ll take a knife and there’s a chance I might have to make a fire after loosing my lighter so I better bring a firesteel along.

Let’s see, I’ll take a knife and there’s a chance I might have to make a fire after loosing my lighter so I better bring a firesteel along.

Or “maybe” I’ll use a firesteel and PJ-cotton straw to make a fire for practice one night.

If I can do that 5 more times with other stuff I’ll save 2lbs and then I can bring my binoc’s.........

I have never heard anyone think or mention anything about their techniques and chosen methods as a "contest." Ultralight is about making careful and thoughtful gear selection that best accommodates your skill level, requirements and needs.

Nor have I.

 

[J. Doyle]

Ramm9- terrific example of going 'sensibly light' while maintaining preparedness. :thumbup:

 

[KEmSAT-Survival]

And I have to wonder was Ron Hood joking when he advises this, much in the same way that "Andy McNabb" advised a movie director to mount a baseplate compass on the side of an M-16 in "Bravo Two Zero." Perhaps to sort out the people that will do anything he advises...

I hope so, because I ain't wipin' my butt with my bandana unless I absolutely, positively have to!

There must be something to it, though. I've seen and heard more than Ron Hood talk about Ye Olde Assrag. My grandad used to talk about carrying a rag just for that (think "working daylight to dark in the middle of a field with no outhouse in sight"), that you washed out just as quick as you could, and if you couldn't you tore it into pieces and buried what was dirty. Of course he never mentioned anything about using it on your face, either.

We're tough, but we don't live like Vikings...

 

[Pritch]

I misstated the amount I shaved off my pack weight in the past year. The summer before last, my 3-season total pack weight was almost exactly 40 lbs. As stated above, my total pack weight (including consumables) is now half of that. This does not qualify as UL, but that isn't even remotely important to me. The difference on the trail, and in camp that evening is substantial.

Heck, even my "skin-out" weight is now under 30 lbs. (29.43 lbs) This includes a 6.5" S&W 629 and Siegle SAR-4!

(Granted, I was able to spend quite a bit on UL gear this year, but no more than many here spend on a single knife.)

 

[Toucan Oasis]

My philosophy is to keep as strong as possible and forget the weight.
I want comfort. Nothing more.
I also don't subscribe to the Appalachian racetrack nonsense of covering 20 miles a day.
Make a good breakfast, walk 4 or 5 hours, set up camp,make a killer dinner.Take pictures etc.
Stoke the fire, and set a few lines in the water for breakfast.

You know what they say about opinions.

 

[Toucan Oasis]

BTW. I carry a Macbook and a cell phone so I can visit forums from any hill top.LOL
OOOOOoooooooooooooooooo thats 4 lbs ! No problem.

 

[kgd]

I don't really backpack anymore like I used to when I was young and would to 3 and 4 d backcountry trails regularly. Still, like Codger64, I like to pay attention to technology and certainly have no problem replacing one piece of gear for an equally functional but lighter piece of gear.

I never really peg myself into a type of camping mentality. What and how I pack for a given trip pretty much depends on what the trip is about. Sometimes I'll go on a two day car camping trick and the wife and I will literally fill up the truck with crap. Other times we will walk in back country with a more sensible package. Sometimes it will be a short distance and we will pack heavier and more stuff. Other times it is further and we will pack less and pay attention to shaving a few pounds.

Why do you always have to do something the same way? Doesn't it depend on the conditions and goals of the trip?

One also has to try and understand the motivations for certain types of trips. I love scenery but I don't usually go walking just to look at views. Half my interest in bushcrafty things is because I find them fun to do and playing with stuff like building traps and such is kind of a time passer. Distance walking really isn't my schtick but I can see why some people like that. I'd never presume to tell what a person whose goal is to go further, faster what the best approach for them should be. At the same time, hearing somebody tell me I should forgo the things I bring along as part of my 'entertainment' while outdoors kind of defeats the purpose. I don't want to go further faster, I want to do some stuff, enjoy myself and be comfortable.

 

[Dibley]

I just wish I could find some dehydrated water. That stuff is heavy and my local hike is completely dry except for a spring 1/2 mile in.

I bought some dehydrated water. I didn't know what to add...
(Credit to Steven Wright)

I found this, though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEs4A7kXG8w

 

[Anrkst6973]

I'm with learning what I can from the ultralite revolution..hey Ti-spoons and such shave a few ounces here n there that adds up to a few pounds. I say let them whip cord muscley young bucks (ette's ) do the ultra lite experimenting and my 40ish body can take advantage of the lessons learned. The knees do need a little encouragment to go down the trail some days. BTW my 2-3 day load is running 20-23 lbs including food n water vs 35-45 a fews years back..I must have learned something!! Message to Don Rearic, I found out the U Dig It trowel is not the best thing...Beause it has no lock ring it will fold up on you when trying to dig..more so in thick or compacted soils. not the best design but made of quality parts. If you can come up with a way to add a pin or sliding lock ring to it it....??? Best regards everyone. anrkst

 

[Shotgun]

Just to be clear I don't have anything against Ultralighters or the mentality in general. In fact some of the things and ideas I try to emulate. It's the idiots that have to take it to the ultimate extreme that I find fault with.

 

[hlee]

I'm not an ultralight hiker. I'm really not even a light hiker. Almost all of my hiking is done in conjunction with some hunting season, and when your minimum load includes 7.5 pounds of rifle, then light is out of the window. Although, it is a "mountain rifle" with a slim tapered barrel that cuts over 1 lb off of the total weight. Also, 6 lbs (3qt) of water is a personal minimum for starting an overnight hike, conditional upon finding more along the way. My pack weighs almost 6 lbs. Add a jacket, first aid kit, knife, spare clothes, rain gear, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, stove, fuel, tent, and food and it adds up pretty quickly. My load on my last hunting trip was around 45 lbs. I'm on the right.

 

[udtjim]

I find absolutely nothing wrong with people going overboard with the super lightweight gear or a pack that only a mule could carry. It is no skin off of any part of me. The whole idea of camping, woodcraft, mountain climbing or whatever, is to enjoy your outing. If it jerks your chain, go for it.

I have camped both ways as some of you have mentioned. If I want the comforts of being home, I take all the gear that I need to accomplish that. I have headed out for a week with my Vic Farmer and my Zippo lighter.

As I get older, my medicine bag is as big as my backpack, but I won't quit until I just can't go on any more. As long as I still enjoy it. I have a lot of respect for those who can get by with less equipment and more savvy. My dad was one of those guys who could do almost anything, with almost nothing.