The virtues of informed criticism

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David Stifle said:
Well, as those of you that have followed this thread know, I posted here and in retrospect, feel very badly about the way I treated Bob. I can't help being blunt, it's just the way I am, but I should have been more tactful; or failing that, kept my durn mouth shut. My hearfelt apologies, Bob. It is, indeed, a masterpice, and my comments mean nothing.
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Ain't nothin', we're good, David.
 
Being a complete outsider to this forum please excuse me and allow me to say that this has been one of the most educational and informative threads that I have read on bladeforums. I wish I could form my thoughts and speak them half as well as most in this thread. I will definitely be visiting Custom and Handmade knives more in the future. Thank you, Chad
 
Makers can benefit greatly from participation on BFC. There are many different factors involved in success, but Russ Andrews, Don Hanson, Marcus Lin, David Sharp and Nick Wheeler just to name a few off the top of my head, have ALL become quite prominent and respected makers, much of that due to participation and positive reception from fellow Forumites. I have often said that this is a double edged sword, and it is reasonable that if you benefit from BFC, you should also be able to take criticism and benefit from that as well….without copping an attitude.

Karda, it isn’t that nobody has been able to post only good things, however the theme that you have been promoting, in your words is “All need to remember that what is being commented on/critiqued is another person’s hard work and product of their business. Something which can be affected by such commentary/critique and something in which the one being critiqued has much more a stake that the on(e) doing the critiquing. The commentor/critic owes it to the one being critiqued the common courtesy and respectfulness to do no/as little harm as possible.”

First of all, I probably have as much money tied up in custom knives as many makers have tied up in their ENTIRE knifemaking operation. The idea that a maker has more at stake than a collector is fallacious. We are ALL in this together. The collector and maker are tied together as much as any other relationship that is symbiotic. My fellow collectors by-and-large work extremely hard to make the money that they do to feed their families, and have some cash left over for the pursuit of custom knife collecting.

There are makers that engage in predatory and nefarious business practices. This can be discussed here on BFC in “The Good, Bad and Ugly” s/f in The Exchange. There is a Gallery section for photos to be posted, without fear of negative commentary, one would hope. The Custom and Handmade Knife s/f is for the pursuit of many of the subjects that you seem to find fault with.

Peter Gill, Joseph Paranee, Roger Pinnock, and myself are all friends, and have been for many years. We all have passion and many years of collecting knives, and this binds us. We are all as different personality, interest and even politically wise as could possibly be. We met through these forums.

It is an imperfect world. I think many past prolific posters such as Anthony Lombardo, Stephen Foster, Michael Gettier, Riad Nasr…..have drifted off into different things and they haven’t readily and quickly been replaced by other highly experienced collectors. This has left a vacuum and changed the experience of Custom and Handmade s/f, but not necessarily for the worse. Nature abhors a vacuum, and posters like Coop, Lorien, Ken, Bob Betzner and others have stepped in to fill this void.

For myself, if I had more time to devote to it, I would continue to critique, albeit with a softer touch than I did ten years ago. I think it benefits EVERYONE with a stake in the game to continue critique on this s/f on BFC in whatever manner is most beneficial.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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Great post STeven. :thumbup:


FWIW- I'd sure like to see a thread, done as an example, that included the elements that some of you fellas feel are missing. I'm not saying that to be argumentative, rather I am genuinely curious.
 
Kohai999 said:
Makers can benefit greatly from participation on BFC. There are many different factors involved in success, but Russ Andrews, Don Hanson, Marcus Lin, David Sharp and Nick Wheeler just to name a few off the top of my head, have ALL become quite prominent and respected makers, much of that due to participation and positive reception from fellow Forumites. I have often said that this is a double edged sword, and it is reasonable that if you benefit from BFC, you should also be able to take criticism and benefit from that as well….without copping an attitude.

Karda, it isn’t that nobody has been able to post only good things, however the theme that you have been promoting, in your words is “All need to remember that what is being commented on/critiqued is another person’s hard work and product of their business. Something which can be affected by such commentary/critique and something in which the one being critiqued has much more a stake that the on(e) doing the critiquing. The commentor/critic owes it to the one being critiqued the common courtesy and respectfulness to do no/as little harm as possible.”

First of all, I probably have as much money tied up in custom knives as many makers have tied up in their ENTIRE knifemaking operation. The idea that a maker has more at stake than a collector is fallacious. We are ALL in this together. The collector and maker are tied together as much as any other relationship that is symbiotic. My fellow collectors by-and-large work extremely hard to make the money that they do to feed their families, and have some cash left over for the pursuit of custom knife collecting.

There are makers that engage in predatory and nefarious business practices. This can be discussed here on BFC in “The Good, Bad and Ugly” s/f in The Exchange. There is a Gallery section for photos to be posted, without fear of negative commentary, one would hope. The Custom and Handmade Knife s/f is for the pursuit of many of the subjects that you seem to find fault with.

Peter Gill, Joseph Paranee, Roger Pinnock, and myself are all friends, and have been for many years. We all have passion and many years of collecting knives, and this binds us. We are all as different personality, interest and even politically wise as could possibly be. We met through these forums.

It is an imperfect world. I think many past prolific posters such as Anthony Lombardo, Stephen Foster, Michael Gettier, Riad Nasr…..have drifted off into different things and they haven’t readily and quickly been replaced by other highly experienced collectors. This has left a vacuum and changed the experience of Custom and Handmade s/f, but not necessarily for the worse. Nature abhors a vacuum, and posters like Coop, Lorien, Ken, Bob Betzner and others have stepped in to fill this void.

For myself, if I had more time to devote to it, I would continue to critique, albeit with a softer touch than I did ten years ago. I think it benefits EVERYONE with a stake in the game to continue critique on this s/f on BFC in whatever manner is most beneficial.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Good post STeven

Every day I put myself out there to be critiqued

Not only on the Internet and in written words but in my personal reputation in my business dealings

My reputation and the quality of my work is what feeds my family

I am thankful for any advice I can get to make myself better at what I do

I don't say much in a negative way on here and when I do I try and speak to everyone respectfully, like I would hope to be spoken to

Example : Neil Blackwood who I am a huge fan of from way back recently posted up a most excellent folder that I would love to own

It had an on the large side clip that mimicked the blade shape

My comment was that I loved the knife but would like a smaller clip. I went on to say that this was just a personal preference and thought everything else looked great

Other posters posted that they really liked the clip etc.

Neil posted like a gentleman thank you and that he offered a smaller rendition of the clip for those that desired so

Win win all the way around

It's all how you say it

And this goes for all things in life

In my line of work I have had to say many things that I did not derive pleasure from

I try and find the least abrasive most consoling way to do so

At least the first time :)
 
Kohai999 said:
Makers can benefit greatly from participation on BFC. There are many different factors involved in success, but Russ Andrews, Don Hanson, Marcus Lin, David Sharp and Nick Wheeler just to name a few off the top of my head, have ALL become quite prominent and respected makers, much of that due to participation and positive reception from fellow Forumites. I have often said that this is a double edged sword, and it is reasonable that if you benefit from BFC, you should also be able to take criticism and benefit from that as well….without copping an attitude.
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And Critics such as yourself should be able critique without causing an attitude. If fact some could say that you owe it to the hobby to do as little harm as possible and be objective in your review. By the same token.. the critic should be able to take criticism as well.....without copping and attitude or playing the martyr.


Kohai999 said:
Karda, it isn’t that nobody has been able to post only good things, however the theme that you have been promoting, in your words is “All need to remember that what is being commented on/critiqued is another person’s hard work and product of their business. Something which can be affected by such commentary/critique and something in which the one being critiqued has much more a stake that the on(e) doing the critiquing. The commentor/critic owes it to the one being critiqued the common courtesy and respectfulness to do no/as little harm as possible.”


First of all, I probably have as much money tied up in custom knives as many makers have tied up in their ENTIRE knifemaking operation. The idea that a maker has more at stake than a collector is fallacious. We are ALL in this together. The collector and maker are tied together as much as any other relationship that is symbiotic. My fellow collectors by-and-large work extremely hard to make the money that they do to feed their families, and have some cash left over for the pursuit of custom knife collecting.
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Its quite amusing to see how entitled some feel when they've spent money. I doubt you are "subsidizing" these makers enough that they will let you run their business. Most collectors don't feed their families by their collecting. Most knifemakers do. Theres the difference.



Kohai999 said:
There are makers that engage in predatory and nefarious business practices. This can be discussed here on BFC in “The Good, Bad and Ugly” s/f in The Exchange. There is a Gallery section for photos to be posted, without fear of negative commentary, one would hope. The Custom and Handmade Knife s/f is for the pursuit of many of the subjects that you seem to find fault with.
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The C&H forum is for the discussion of C&H knives......by anyone. Anyone can post and discuss there without approval.
The only requirement is that the knife be custom or handmade.



Peter Gill, Joseph Paranee, Roger Pinnock, and myself are all friends, and have been for many years. We all have passion and many years of collecting knives, and this binds us. We are all as different personality, interest and even politically wise as could possibly be. We met through these forums.

It is an imperfect world. I think many past prolific posters such as Anthony Lombardo, Stephen Foster, Michael Gettier, Riad Nasr…..have drifted off into different things and they haven’t readily and quickly been replaced by other highly experienced collectors. This has left a vacuum and changed the experience of Custom and Handmade s/f, but not necessarily for the worse. Nature abhors a vacuum, and posters like Coop, Lorien, Ken, Bob Betzner and others have stepped in to fill this void.

For myself, if I had more time to devote to it, I would continue to critique, albeit with a softer touch than I did ten years ago. I think it benefits EVERYONE with a stake in the game to continue critique on this s/f on BFC in whatever manner is most beneficial.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson[/QUOTE]
 
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an act of nature is causing me to fill a vaccuum? No wonder my life sucks.
:D:D:D

ps. figured I'd get a joke in, before things get serious:)
 
I know STeven of all people needs no defense, but to even insinuate that his commentary over the years, no matter how crassly delivered, has on balance done the hobby harm, is laughable.
 
Bladeplay74 said:
I know STeven of all people needs no defense, but to even insinuate that his commentary over the years, no matter how crassly delivered, has on balance done the hobby harm, is laughable.
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Thank your for the kind words Seth.

Have not done the hobby harm....I have promoted it and bettered it.

I did do Marcus Lin's career harm, and it permanently changed my approach. I have tried to make amends as best as possible, it was an overarching, ego-driven fiasco.

That was funny, Lorien, good on the attempt to lighten it up a bit.:thumbup:

I'm glad Karda is amused that myself and many others have spent hard earned money on custom knives, but as he does not promote or participate in the custom knife arena, his words must be given the attention and consideration that they are worth.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
Thank your for the kind words Seth.

Have not done the hobby harm....I have promoted it and bettered it.

I did do Marcus Lin's career harm, and it permanently changed my approach. I have tried to make amends as best as possible, it was an overarching, ego-driven fiasco.

That was funny, Lorien, good on the attempt to lighten it up a bit.:thumbup:

I'm glad Karda is amused that myself and many others have spent hard earned money on custom knives, but as he does not promote or participate in the custom knife arena, his words must be given the attention and consideration that they are worth.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Yes, the hobby has been so enriched, that at least one maker, by your own admission has been harmed.
and that's one you actually know about.....
You've done such absolute wonders for this forum that many knifemakers do not post anything here
You like to claim I don't participate, make or promote custom or handmade knives and am unknowledgable about them....
but you can't possibly know, because we've never really talked.
Yet, I'm involved directly in sales and manufacture of handmade knives, so obviously I must know something.

Before taking stock in any review by Kohai999, one should actually consider what the purpose for the review is...
Is It genuinely to help the hobby and/or maker? or is it to boost self/forum image?
 
Karda said:
Yet, I'm involved directly in sales and manufacture of handmade knives, so obviously I must know something.

Before taking stock in any review by Kohai999, one should actually consider what the purpose for the review is...
Is It genuinely to help the hobby and/or maker? or is it to boost self/forum image?
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You represent what can be considered a factory, Karda. Himalayan Imports. They are fine quality handmade knives. Your experiences have value.

If Uncle Bill was still alive, would you be so needed?

If you ever want to talk, PM me, and I'll give you my number. Be happy to do so.

My self image is in good shape, thanks.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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Bladeplay74 said:
I know STeven of all people needs no defense, but to even insinuate that his commentary over the years, no matter how crassly delivered, has on balance done the hobby harm, is laughable.
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I quite agree.

And I think we've just finally seen Karda's examples of how to offer criticism without being rude. But it wasn't precisely what I was expecting.
 
just thought I should point out that two knife makers have posted up pics of their work since this thread started, both of whom have directly asked for critique.
And yet, has anyone who's bemoaned the lack of discussion/critique offered either of same for these willing makers? Not a one.
I rest my case.
 
Steven let it go, It does no good to argue with police ,game wardens and moderators in most situations and this is one of those situations

There is obvious disdain felt here and it will only lead to infractions etc
 
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