The Walking Dead Season 3 Thread...

Last Visible Canary said:
If he suggested calling the cops he was probably it suggests that he wasn't aware that the wold had fallen apart - that 'cops' still existed and that there was a phone line to call them with. I don't think he was with anyone, I think he lived out in the woods by himself and had no communication with the outside world. His knowledge of the zombie apocalypse was likely limited to the zombies themselves out of his front door.
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I think the idea is that he is so bat-shoot crazy he can't work it out.. Nothing could explain why he didn't notice a stinky dead dog...

But would he have survived for so long.... I don't think so... Oh well more reason to throw him to the hordes. :)
 
Last Visible Canary said:
Consider the conditions of those four incidents though. The pet walkers were killed to keep them quite to evade capture, and it was done in a controlled situation (only andrea watching). The old man in the cabin was done to keep him from unleashing a horde of zombies into a confined space and it was among people she mostly trusted at that point (seen through multiple shots of her overhearing their group dynamics and smiling or thinking), it also put her in the position within that group as someone to respect and not roll over.

With the governor she was in an enemy encampment surrounded by gun weilding people willing to kill mercilessly at the governors command, and thats against innocent people. Had she slit his through she would have had to fight her way out of that alone. With merle she did her best in close quarters but there are limits to what you can do in a fight. She's strong and capable but he had a gun and there were walkers present - there comes a point where escape, evade and ambush is the best available option. Standing her ground and going toe to toe with him is a brash gamble, if survival is your goal those kinds of gambles aren't pretty options. When she met him again in town there were two people there that she didn't know and she was already wounded - and most importantly at a distance against 3 potential opponents all wielding guns. To hobble into hat fight would have been suicide.
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fantastic observations and perspective on Michonne's actions in those scenarios. I also think she is "reading" the groups well, she knew the Governor was a creep, and I also get the feeling as you did that she is mostly trusting Rick's group.
 
sorry for the edits, I didn't see that the 23rd page had popped up and I write poorly at first draft. I try not to edit once someone has commented/quoted me...
 
LVC,
I always enjoy reading your posts. They seem to always make me look at thing from a different light. I am sure you are right with your assessments on Michonne.
Still, I would have cut the Governors head off and then had to figure out how to get away. I tend to not think things out that far. That probably explains me being a horrible chess player and covered in scars.

Garth
 
Garth Reckner said:
LVC,
I always enjoy reading your posts. They seem to always make me look at thing from a different light. I am sure you are right with your assessments on Michonne.
Still, I would have cut the Governors head off and then had to figure out how to get away. I tend to not think things out that far. That probably explains me being a horrible chess player and covered in scars.

Garth
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Workplace injuries, I'm sure.

Last Visible Canary said:
If he suggested calling the cops he was probably wasn't aware that the world had fallen apart - that 'cops' still existed and that there was a phone line to call them with. I don't think he was with anyone, I think he lived out in the woods by himself and had no communication with the outside world. His knowledge of the zombie apocalypse was likely limited to the zombies themselves out of his front door.
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Although it's really unlikely that he's a Woodbury guy in the TV series, the Woodbury of the novels and comics does not all lie within the walled area and is a lot more depressing, full of sociopaths, drunkards, etc. I don't know what the point of the crazy guy in the cabin was at all as he didn't seem to add anything to the show. Or maybe it's symbolism that's too subtle for me.
 
uyotg said:
Workplace injuries, I'm sure.



Although it's really unlikely that he's a Woodbury guy in the TV series, the Woodbury of the novels and comics does not all lie within the walled area and is a lot more depressing, full of sociopaths, drunkards, etc. I don't know what the point of the crazy guy in the cabin was at all as he didn't seem to add anything to the show. Or maybe it's symbolism that's too subtle for me.
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It had 2 effects, it showed that there were still people who existed outside the scope of the current world and were still a part of the old world, a way of contrasting what once was with what is, and it showed a group dynamic with Michonne in it. Specifically, it showed her interacting with a troubling aspect of being in such situations - if one of the group is actively threatening the lives of the group, do you try to restrain him (potentially at the cost health to the restrainer, or to the entire group should they get free) or should you kill them outright? It's a common thought experiment for how people take responsibility for the lives of those around them. example, in three stages:

1 - your standing atop a hill and there is a train coming a long ways away. There is a break in the tracks where the train will have to go down one track or another. On track (a) there is one man, asleep on the tracks. On track (b) there is a group of 20 men working in a gorge where the track twists around a blind curve. Neither group will be able to escape the train - the sleeping man in drunk and the men behind the blind curve have no where to go. You have a switch in front of you that will set the train down one or the other. The train will kill someone no matter what, one man or twenty. are you willing to set it to track (a)?

This question has a lot of people saying yes. Your responsible for deciding the fate of the men, but at a distance. The level of responsibility is minimal.

2 - your standing on top of a archway that is above a bridge, underneath you is a train track. From your heigth you can see into the distance behind you the same gorge in example 1. There are 20 men who are in a gorge that the tracks run through, around a blind curve who have no way to escape. A train is coming in the distance. There is another man right next to you. You know that if you shove him off the top of the archway onto the tracks that the train will stop because the conductor will see him. You'll save 20 mens lives, but you have to sacrifice 1. Are you willing to push the man?

This example has the same odds, you are still responsible for choosing who dies, but the responsibility is direct. Most say no.

3 - Your in nazi germany. There are nazi's searching for your party of 20 men woman and children. your hidden in a basement with wood slats covering you. A baby in the group starts crying. You know that if the baby continues to cry it will give you and your group away, but to silence it you have to silence it completely, meaning suffocation. Are you willing to save 20 men, women and children by suffocating the baby?

This example has direct responsibility and it crosses social and personal moires. Almost all say no, yet it is an example that has happened in real life.



The man in the cabin was Michonnes test of these 3 scenarios. She has presented a willingness to go as far as number two. Rick has shown only number 1, if that. He shoved the guy into a yard full of zombies to save his group - but he didn't pull the trigger on an unarmed man. While you could say that him killing the guy in the prison was equivelant, it's not. That was a direct threat to himself, not an overall group threat. It would have likely lead to that, but in that instance it was "I'm going to kill you, right now, with my bare hands", not "I'll kill all of you by unleashing a horde of zombies on you, but I'm not going to kill you directly".

It represents a kind of litmus test for willingness to kill, and under what situations. If you ever want an excellent example of how people slowly build up to the three levels of violence read the lord of the flies. One of the best books ever written, even more so when looking into the visceral experience of building a tolerance to commiting and witnessing violence. So far the show has not reached level 3, and it might not given that it is on tv.
 
Last Visible Canary said:
It had 2 effects, it showed that there were still people who existed outside the scope of the current world and were still a part of the old world, a way of contrasting what once was with what is, and it showed a group dynamic with Michonne in it. Specifically, it showed her interacting with a troubling aspect of being in such situations - if one of the group is actively threatening the lives of the group, do you try to restrain him (potentially at the cost health to the restrainer, or to the entire group should they get free) or should you kill them outright? It's a common thought experiment for how people take responsibility for the lives of those around them. example, in three stages:

1 - your standing atop a hill and there is a train coming a long ways away. There is a break in the tracks where the train will have to go down one track or another. On track (a) there is one man, asleep on the tracks. On track (b) there is a group of 20 men working in a gorge where the track twists around a blind curve. Neither group will be able to escape the train - the sleeping man in drunk and the men behind the blind curve have no where to go. You have a switch in front of you that will set the train down one or the other. The train will kill someone no matter what, one man or twenty. are you willing to set it to track (a)?

This question has a lot of people saying yes. Your responsible for deciding the fate of the men, but at a distance. The level of responsibility is minimal.

2 - your standing on top of a archway that is above a bridge, underneath you is a train track. From your heigth you can see into the distance behind you the same gorge in example 1. There are 20 men who are in a gorge that the tracks run through, around a blind curve who have no way to escape. A train is coming in the distance. There is another man right next to you. You know that if you shove him off the top of the archway onto the tracks that the train will stop because the conductor will see him. You'll save 20 mens lives, but you have to sacrifice 1. Are you willing to push the man?

This example has the same odds, you are still responsible for choosing who dies, but the responsibility is direct. Most say no.

3 - Your in nazi germany. There are nazi's searching for your party of 20 men woman and children. your hidden in a basement with wood slats covering you. A baby in the group starts crying. You know that if the baby continues to cry it will give you and your group away, but to silence it you have to silence it completely, meaning suffocation. Are you willing to save 20 men, women and children by suffocating the baby?

This example has direct responsibility and it crosses social and personal moires. Almost all say no, yet it is an example that has happened in real life.



The man in the cabin was Michonnes test of these 3 scenarios. She has presented a willingness to go as far as number two. Rick has shown only number 1, if that. He shoved the guy into a yard full of zombies to save his group - but he didn't pull the trigger on an unarmed man. While you could say that him killing the guy in the prison was equivelant, it's not. That was a direct threat to himself, not an overall group threat. It would have likely lead to that, but in that instance it was "I'm going to kill you, right now, with my bare hands", not "I'll kill all of you by unleashing a horde of zombies on you, but I'm not going to kill you directly".

It represents a kind of litmus test for willingness to kill, and under what situations. If you ever want an excellent example of how people slowly build up to the three levels of violence read the lord of the flies. One of the best books ever written, even more so when looking into the visceral experience of building a tolerance to commiting and witnessing violence. So far the show has not reached level 3, and it might not given that it is on tv.
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That was great. Thanks :thumbup: I don't do thoughtful fiction or philosophy much, so a lot of these things are not apparent to me when they do show up. Nice to know how much thought actually goes into the show, and it's cool when someone reads it as well as you do. Even cooler when that someone shares it with me :)
 
Finally had a chance to catch the latest episode on DVR -- as with all the episodes, really enjoyed it --it set the stage, propelling the narrative toward next week's mid-season finale.
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Wow -- this was really a "coming of age" episode for Glen...!
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His unwillingness to give up the rest of the group, his sheer ferocity in beating the walker, and his standing up to the Governor, all point to a future leader-in-the-making.

Clearly, the moments that Michonne witnessed through the prison bars (the tenderness with which everyone dealt with the baby, Carol and Rick coming together in mutual grief and understanding) had a profound effect on her. She saw a group that hadn't surrendered its basic humanity and goodness.

As a fan of the graphic novels, I'm really glad that the TV show diverges significantly from the time- and plot-lines of the hard copy, so we can all enjoy the televised episodes with a sense of freshness and surprise.

I'm glad I found this thread to provide a "fix" between episodes...!
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.
 
I wonder if Michonne is gonna hang around. She seems to have found a place in the group already but her loner spirit may kick in and head out on her own again. Really want to see her and Daryl team up against a horde of walkers. That is a zombie killing dream team.

Garth
 
I think they need to work in a plot line about Rick going deaf after firing his .357 inside those tight prison hallways so many times.

"...WHAT DID YOU SAY CARL?! CAN'T HEAR YOU..."
 
Garth Reckner said:
I wonder if Michonne is gonna hang around. She seems to have found a place in the group already but her loner spirit may kick in and head out on her own again. Really want to see her and Daryl team up against a horde of walkers. That is a zombie killing dream team.

Garth
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Seriously, Michonne? Daryl? Crazy Axe Rick? Oscar? And now SPOILERTyreese (Rick's right-hand man in the comics) is supposed to show up in the next episode?NO MORE SPOILER The core crew of the TV series is going to have some pretty cool, hardcore characters.
 
senorsquare said:
I think they need to work in a plot line about Rick going deaf after firing his .357 inside those tight prison hallways so many times.

"...WHAT DID YOU SAY CARL?! CAN'T HEAR YOU..."
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Maybe since the gun has no recoil it isn't that loud. Or maybe it is already messing with his hearing. I mean he was listening to dead people on the phone.

Garth
 
Jeez, there accuracy just disappears when shooting at other humans.... They can hit walkers no problem....
 
I doubt they'd kill him. He's way too popular. I think it'd hurt the viewer base.
 
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