Thickest Strongest LINER lock?

Chris Pierce said:
They fail at the fasteners?
Please explain.
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The screws that hold the body together will be sheared off and the knife will separate at the spine before the liner can buckle and break. That's apparently true in most cases, anyway. Cheaply made, thin liners might be different.

As for Ti vs. steel, steel should be more wear resistant, which is a more relevant property on the lock. I'd notice a big weight difference between steel and Ti on a frame lock, but not so much on a liner lock. Steel liners are fine in my opinion. Emersons should probably be made the opposite of the way they are now; with the SS side locking instead of the Ti side.
 
You guys seem pretty sure that Ti is stronger than Steel. I thought it was the other way around. I guess I need to do some reading.
 
All steels are not equal nor are all Ti. Most are Ti alloys. I would research the specific knife and what it's liners are.
 
Tsujigiri said:
The screws that hold the body together will be sheared off and the knife will separate at the spine before the liner can buckle and break. That's apparently true in most cases, anyway. Cheaply made, thin liners might be different.

As for Ti vs. steel, steel should be more wear resistant, which is a more relevant property on the lock. I'd notice a big weight difference between steel and Ti on a frame lock, but not so much on a liner lock. Steel liners are fine in my opinion. Emersons should probably be made the opposite of the way they are now; with the SS side locking instead of the Ti side.
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I think they got a good thing going using Ti. It 'sticks' to the tang better and ensure a more positive lockup even though it may wear quicker.

Chris Pierce said:
You guys seem pretty sure that Ti is stronger than Steel. I thought it was the other way around. I guess I need to do some reading.
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Strength to weight, Ti is stronger, but everything being the same size wise, a steel liner should beat out Ti liner in strength (especially under a compressing force). Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

-sh00ter
 
From what I have seen, under normal range of forces, unless their extremely thin, neither will probably fail.
 
Maddogg774 said:
Sorry buddy, but titanium will always be stronger. If the liners were exactly equal in size the Ti liner would be about twice as strong and less than half the weight(if 420j2) which is very common. The thing I like about Ti I like is it's corrosion resistance. I love the liners on my Ontario Hossom Retribution 1. Thick, strong and macho. I'm still a Demko guy though, if strength is the major concern.
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6al4v Ti can reach tensile strengths approaching 1200 MPa. depending on how it is precipitation hardened. It can reach about 36HRC hardness. 420 stainless can reach 1600 MPa. tensile strength depending on the tempering temperature used. It can reach 50HRC hardness. For liner locks, 420 stainless would be my choice over titanium of the same or approximate thickness.
 
So after doing some reading I have found out that Steel is potentially twice as strong as Ti of the same size/volume. BUT, of course ALL steel is not stronger than ALL Ti.
TI tends to be much stronger than Steel per Weight. But tends not to be nearly as strong per size or volume.

So if you had a TI Frame Lock made of Steel if would be stronger (assuming a good steel and heat treat), but much much heavier.
 
Chris Pierce said:
So after doing some reading I have found out that Steel is potentially twice as strong as Ti of the same size/volume. BUT, of course ALL steel is not stronger than ALL Ti.
TI tends to be much stronger than Steel per Weight. But tends not to be nearly as strong per size or volume.

So if you had a TI Frame Lock made of Steel if would be stronger (assuming a good steel and heat treat), but much much heavier.
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Correct.

Folks get confused with advertising when "strength to weight ratio" is brought up.

Al Mar SERE 2000 is stout with SS liners.
 
I'm finding the same through research, in the same exact knife with the same exact liners, if made from Ti the liners will weigh 40% less, but won't be as strong as steel.

Steel is stronger, but has a more fatigue life than titanium.

3. Steel can shatter, whereas titanium can withstand high and low temperatures.

Steel is preferred when strength is needed in a hard material, and titanium is preferred where a lightweight and strong material is required.

Titanium is lighter and stronger per weight but not per volume, it is also more resistant to temperature changes and of course corrosion, Steel is stronger per volume, can be made harder (wears out more slowly). Given the choice I'd go with steel.
http://www.differencebetween.net/object/difference-between-steel-and-titanium/
 
Another thing to keep in mind is that stronger isn't always better. Knife companies could use the latest high strength aerospace materials in their knives, but they don't (even the ones that say they use "aircraft aluminum" are usually using 6061, which isn't really a cutting edge aerospace alloy for modern aircraft). The stronger you make an alloy, generally, the more susceptible it is to things like stress corrosion cracking or catastrophic failure. That's why it's very important for airlines to regularly inspect their aircraft for small cracks that could be catastrophic. If you're building a bridge, on the other hand, you can use heavier materials that don't need as much maintenance and will deform rather than break. Since you don't need to shave off every possible amount of weight for something like a knife, a larger amount of lower strength alloy is better for this application.
 
Military would probably be the only linerlock I would try based off feedback, but it's not thick. Even though it probably doesn't count, the Compression Lock is the ideal linerlock in my opinion.

Would still love to see a thicker handled Compression Lock Spydie with solid back and thicker, higher tip.
 
Some Comparison of metals:

Alloy Melting Point (Celsius) Strength (KSI) Weight
Titanium 1668 150 Light
Aluminium 660 60 Light
Stainless 1527 84 Moderate
Iron 1536 220 Heavyore fun titanium facts.
 
I've worked with titanium in the bio-medical and aerospace industry. Certain alloys are very tough and the lightweight is a real advantage. Machining it can be a real challenge as it's very abrasive and hard on tooling. It's used in a lot of small and powerful handguns too.
 
mossyhorn said:
I've worked with titanium in the bio-medical and aerospace industry. Certain alloys are very tough and the lightweight is a real advantage. Machining it can be a real challenge as it's very abrasive and hard on tooling. It's used in a lot of small and powerful handguns too.
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Auto mechanics air guns started using Ti 7 / 8 years ago as well.
 
Maddogg774 said:
All steels are not equal nor are all Ti. Most are Ti alloys. I would research the specific knife and what it's liners are.
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This.

Also, what do you mean by "Stronger"? Less likely to flex? Less likely to fail at the bend due to force (or weaken from repeated opening/closing)? Less likely to wear at the face? Less likely to shatter when dropped?

Steel vs. Ti is to broad, but so is "stronger". Also, thicker doesn't always equal stronger (or better - especially on a part with a bend designed to flex in normal operation). The same is true of harder.
 
1. Most Liner locks and frame locks these days are exactly the same thing. Just, one has a scale on top of it. Once the lockbar thickness gets to a certain point I really don't think you will see any significant difference between something with or without a scale.

2. Titanium lockbars, used in this industry, will shear if nothing else gives (the blade tang cuts off a piece of the lock-bar). I've never heard of steel doing that.

3. High strength in a folding knife is normally useless. You're pretty much never going to push a good lock to its limits, and if you do then you're probably doing something wrong. You want a reliable lock, a strong and unreliable lock is worse than a slip-joint.
 
I've got to add a +1 re. the ZT0200 -

In terms of value for money not only is the liner lock significantly beefier than anything else I have in that style - it is a whole lot of knife at a very reasonable cost.

Only, that heft and size means that it rides in my pack a lot more than it sits in my pocket...

Ben
 
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