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Thickest Strongest LINER lock?
- Thread starter Chris Pierce
- Start date
I've owned a good number of liner locks and I believe my Microtech Socom Elite is the strongest. You're right about the blade -- it's heavy and long which causes the detent to seem weaker than average.
jk
Wouldn't a framelock of same thickness on the cutout portion be different in strength than a liner lock. Material, and spring tempering being identical.
If we think about failure in a lock, apart from the lock slipping, we think about a lock bending, or warping.
Now think about it this way:
The frame lock, versus the liner lock issue.
We know that thicker the material, the harder it is to bend. However by introducing the cut out, you decrease the strength on the area of the cut out but you do NOT decrease the strength of other areas in the lock bar.
However how likely is that portion to bend, compared to a liner lock which has a point of failure that is likely to occur ANYWHERE in the lockbar versus a framelock, only on the cut out portion.
The only point of warping is in the cutout, which is far from the point of force (the locking surface). In fact it's usually in the farthest if not farthest point.
What this creates is a unequal dispersion of energy (in form of pressure) along the bar. Meaning 50 lbs of pressure after transferring to the lock far would be a fraction of that to the actual cut out portion. While a liner lock will see that dispersion at the upper most portion of the lockbar.
If we take into consideration leverage of force, it further means that a framelock failing due to warping or bending may be less likely to occur than a linerlock.
We must understand first that the force exerted unto the lockbar is one that originates from one end of the surface, NOT the sides.
Thus we can try this to practice our theory.
Take a pencil, and cut it in half (it's easier than you think, it will split easily).
Take a 2nd pencil and leave it as is. Only cut out a portion of it near one end.
Take both pencils, and secure the ends with the cut out nearest to it on the surface of a vice. Now close the vice (essentially you are putting force on the end farthest away from the cutout).
Which one should fail first?
If we think about failure in a lock, apart from the lock slipping, we think about a lock bending, or warping.
Now think about it this way:
The frame lock, versus the liner lock issue.
We know that thicker the material, the harder it is to bend. However by introducing the cut out, you decrease the strength on the area of the cut out but you do NOT decrease the strength of other areas in the lock bar.
However how likely is that portion to bend, compared to a liner lock which has a point of failure that is likely to occur ANYWHERE in the lockbar versus a framelock, only on the cut out portion.
The only point of warping is in the cutout, which is far from the point of force (the locking surface). In fact it's usually in the farthest if not farthest point.
What this creates is a unequal dispersion of energy (in form of pressure) along the bar. Meaning 50 lbs of pressure after transferring to the lock far would be a fraction of that to the actual cut out portion. While a liner lock will see that dispersion at the upper most portion of the lockbar.
If we take into consideration leverage of force, it further means that a framelock failing due to warping or bending may be less likely to occur than a linerlock.
We must understand first that the force exerted unto the lockbar is one that originates from one end of the surface, NOT the sides.
Thus we can try this to practice our theory.
Take a pencil, and cut it in half (it's easier than you think, it will split easily).
Take a 2nd pencil and leave it as is. Only cut out a portion of it near one end.
Take both pencils, and secure the ends with the cut out nearest to it on the surface of a vice. Now close the vice (essentially you are putting force on the end farthest away from the cutout).
Which one should fail first?
I could be wrong but dont you want equal dispersion of pressure so that there will be less pressure at any one point ? For example which cuts better a knife or a two by four and which of those two creates a more even amount of pressure and which one has the more focused pressure?
But again I could be wrong I'm no engineer
Cragan An Fhithich
JTR357
Gold Member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2007
- Messages
- 14,026
Yes but applying equal dispersion of pressure in practice is near impossible. The blade doesn't sit perfectly parallel, and more importantly the flat of the entire width of the blade tang and lock surface are not perfectly mated. Also is the angle the lock bar is in, really efficient for energy transfer? This is what the Sebenza (and a few manufacturers) tries to counter in my opinion with the precision machined tang/lock bar+heat treatment, good long term energy transfer.
So when pressure is applied to the blade's spine, the pressure transferred from spine's blade, to the pivot, and finally to the lock will not be unevenly transferred and following logic: thedispersion will also be unequal.
So I think framelocks/linerlocks definitely have a difference in strength. As to which one is stronger I can make a idiot guess to say a framelock is stronger due to less points of failure in the lock bar.
But in real world usage: probably irrelevant.
Folding knives are incredibly strong for their compact form, and anything that makes them fail is an extreme that would break any lock out there (if materials/thickness/tempers the same).
Chipped Karambit
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2012
- Messages
- 938
Hands down. The Gunhammer. THICK ti lock. seriously almost thicker then the blade
That makes a lot of sense thanks for explaining your previous post I guess my dislike of frame locks is probably based on the fact that on most knives I find that only having one scale looks pretty bad but I can see the logic of your point and I guess I agree