This BB13 went on a diet

Rob_Mob said:
Wow that's pretty remarkable--- I'm shocked actually. Geometry is very important, but so is total weight and weight distribution. The fact that the 19 oz REK13 beat out the BB13 BG AND the BB13CG with reprofiled edge is pretty shocking...
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It is interesting. Wish I could've been there to throw mine into the mix to see how it stacks up. It's been reprofiled to 15dps and then reground to ~.033-.035" behind the edge. Probably not much more than an ounce of total weight loss so far. Trying to dial it in to hit the sweet spot of good heft and a fairly lean geometry.
 
razor-edge-knives said:
Just finished this one up today (mainaman, heading your way monday!)... surprisingly enough it seemed to perform decent (good bite, blade heavy though) prior to the regrind (was already stripped down), but now it's really dialed in with lowered edge geometry and better balance. Due to the weight distribution on this thing you can really generate some heavy power swings. On this I put a polished convex edge *almost* blended in to the primary.

IMG_20170610_185536-X2.jpg
IMG_20170610_185554-X2.jpg
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It looks amazing Josh, can't wait to use it. Beautiful work, thank you.
 
inkynate said:
It is interesting. Wish I could've been there to throw mine into the mix to see how it stacks up. It's been reprofiled to 15dps and then reground to ~.033-.035" behind the edge. Probably not much more than an ounce of total weight loss so far. Trying to dial it in to hit the sweet spot of good heft and a fairly lean geometry.
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Knocking the shoulders back has definitely got to help ---- at 15 dps that monster must be quite slicey!! I'm curious to see exactly how converting the entire blade profile to FFG makes a difference.

In my mind, the only application where that would matter is if the medium being cut/chopped into is thin enough for the blade to penetrate 50% through in one swing. Otherwise, for thicker logs, the blade can only get wedged in so far. That's why in my mind, I figured the BB13CG should remain either saber or possibly convex, with knocked back shoulders and a fully reprofiled edge. Either way though --- FFG is beautiful and from what I hear handles perfectly.
 
From everything I've experienced, a sabre grind will give more strength, and excel at batonning, but a FFG will generally bite deeper and make for a better chopper.
But again, there are so many more variables than just the grind.
 
rcb2000 said:
From everything I've experienced, a sabre grind will give more strength, and excel at batonning, but a FFG will generally bite deeper and make for a better chopper.
But again, there are so many more variables than just the grind.
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Definitely true ---

I guess what I'm wondering is:

Assuming hardened wood/dead wood and Assuming a blade heavy chopper:

1. If the blade profile is 2-3 inches and the medium being chopped into is 2-3 inches, then FFG would be ideal. This is assuming that the blade has the ability to penetrate deep enough (maybe 50%) for the FFG grind to actually be more beneficial.

2. If the blade profile is 2-3 inches and the medium being chopped is 4-5 inches, then the blade likely won't make it beyond 10-20% of the medium being chopped into. That being said, the more important variables there are likely to be weight distribution of the blade as well the geometry of the edge/shoulders.

Please anyone feel free to chime in. This is pure speculation. Of course there are many more variables that go into this.

This is great forum discussion --- hopefully we all learn something out of this.

Regardless, user comfort and/or preference is most important overall when determining grind, edge geoemetry, etc.
 
There's always exceptions to the rule. To argue my own point, some the of best choppers I've used were both saber, with wildly different heights, the 1311 and the battl grade WTF. Now I'd argue that that was due to both having thinner stock, and either the length or weight to gain velocity and momentum.
 
There is a "perfect" BEVEL geometry for everyone that is both achievable with a Full Flat grind AND a Saber grind. Blade width/height and black thickness are the two reasons/variables here, nothing else. A certain geometry that you like can be achieved using either Full Flat OR Saber grind if you tweak these Blade width/height and black thickness to equal your desired geometry. This explains what you just mentioned, RCB, that the 1311 and the WTF were great choppers and had saber grinds. One has a thinner stock, the other had a much larger blade width/height.

There is also a "perfect" EDGE geometry for everyone that is achievable simply by re-profiling the edge.

A combination of your "perfect"/desired BEVEL/blade geometry AND your "perfect"/desired EDGE geometry will give YOU the best results. Now if you look at the other two factors that make the blade truly "perfect", blade length/shape and handle length/shape and get those exactly how you want them, you will indeed of created your "PERFECT" blade.
 
Imagine if you were testing a knife with an X bevel geometry and X edge geometry and it was Full Flat ground and it could chop let's just say 2" deep into a log of wood. If you used the exact same X bevel geometry and X edge geometry but gave the blade more mass, say by adding a Saber Grind ON TOP OF (Like literally, imagine you could add it on top of your blade, i know it's impossible without creating another knife with a wider slab or steel but just imagine you could) your existing test knife you would have more mass and more weight with the exact same bevel/blade AND edge geometry, the saber ground knife would chop much deeper than 2" deep into that same log.

I know I didn't explain this very well. I haven't had any coffee yet, I hope I made SOME sense..........I may regret this post LOL
 
Rob_Mob said:
Knocking the shoulders back has definitely got to help ---- at 15 dps that monster must be quite slicey!! I'm curious to see exactly how converting the entire blade profile to FFG makes a difference.

In my mind, the only application where that would matter is if the medium being cut/chopped into is thin enough for the blade to penetrate 50% through in one swing. Otherwise, for thicker logs, the blade can only get wedged in so far. That's why in my mind, I figured the BB13CG should remain either saber or possibly convex, with knocked back shoulders and a fully reprofiled edge. Either way though --- FFG is beautiful and from what I hear handles perfectly.
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I am not sure that the B13 can be convexed without sacrificing blade width due to the grind.
 
ExtraBaconPlease said:
Imagine if you were testing a knife with an X bevel geometry and X edge geometry and it was Full Flat ground and it could chop let's just say 2" deep into a log of wood. If you used the exact same X bevel geometry and X edge geometry but gave the blade more mass, say by adding a Saber Grind ON TOP OF (Like literally, imagine you could add it on top of your blade, i know it's impossible without creating another knife with a wider slab or steel but just imagine you could) your existing test knife you would have more mass and more weight with the exact same bevel/blade AND edge geometry, the saber ground knife would chop much deeper than 2" deep into that same log.

I know I didn't explain this very well. I haven't had any coffee yet, I hope I made SOME sense..........I may regret this post LOL
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No your post is perfect!! It illustrates my point --- which is that if the edge geometry & shoulder geometry is a certain level --- let's call it X. If the X region on the Saber Grind BB13CG is the same as the X region of the FFG version --- then the Saber Grind version (which has more mass and more forward weight distribution) should chop better --- as long as it's for mediums that are thick 4-5 inches or more. Reason being that on 4-5+ inch mediums -- the blade will certainly not penetrate deep enough to utilize the FFG Grind geometry.

However --- on mediums that are thinner than 4 inches -- it potentially and likely would/could effectively utilize the FFG Grind geometry. The stock BB13CG would have too much metal for it to seamlessly cut through branches/logs less than 4 inches. It certainly can get through it, but I'd posit to say it's more so due to blunt force, rather than efficient blade geometry.

It really goes back to what the intended use of the knife is for -- in order to select the ideal blade geometry. However, in the end -- it still comes down to user preference/comfort
 
Rob_Mob said:
No your post is perfect!! It illustrates my point --- which is that if the edge geometry & shoulder geometry is a certain level --- let's call it X. If the X region on the Saber Grind BB13CG is the same as the X region of the FFG version --- then the Saber Grind version (which has more mass and more forward weight distribution) should chop better --- as long as it's for mediums that are thick 4-5 inches or more. Reason being that on 4-5+ inch mediums -- the blade will certainly not penetrate deep enough to utilize the FFG Grind geometry.

However --- on mediums that are thinner than 4 inches -- it potentially and likely would/could effectively utilize the FFG Grind geometry. The stock BB13CG would have too much metal for it to seamlessly cut through branches/logs less than 4 inches. It certainly can get through it, but I'd posit to say it's more so due to blunt force, rather than efficient blade geometry.

It really goes back to what the intended use of the knife is for -- in order to select the ideal blade geometry. However, in the end -- it still comes down to user preference/comfort
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Well said and 100% agree!! Phew, glad I made sense lol

Edit to add: and by the way, that 4inch estimate is actually pretty accurate in my book. Of course, it depends on what type of wood you are cutting but 4" is about spot on!
 
Ok... Since I can't afford a busse at this time, you guys have me talked into making my own personal chopper. Got to get some other blades heat treated soon anyway, and my esee junglas isn't doing it for me anymore after testing these busses out!
 
That DOES look beautiful.
razor-edge-knives said:
Just finished this one up today (mainaman, heading your way monday!)... surprisingly enough it seemed to perform decent (good bite, blade heavy though) prior to the regrind (was already stripped down), but now it's really dialed in with lowered edge geometry and better balance. Due to the weight distribution on this thing you can really generate some heavy power swings. On this I put a polished convex edge *almost* blended in to the primary.

IMG_20170610_185536-X2.jpg
IMG_20170610_185554-X2.jpg
Click to expand...
 
You should see my War Train Fusion... it's been living on In-and-Out Burger and mt dew.... she's fat
Bb13 is looking good though...
 
The knife arrived today and it feels really nice in hand. It is very nimble now and does not have that awkward (to me) forward balance.
 
Awesome work/pics!

I just bought a BB13 INFI and I'm wondering if it's worth the mod? I love the looks and REK does awesome work but is it worth it? I have a B11 and want something that equal or greater in the chopping department but lite to pack. Thoughts and info would be helpful.
 
Up to you, but your B11 will still be lighter, faster and a more compact carry than the BB13. The B11 is also a full .25” thick, so has greater lateral strength. The modified/thinned BB13 will take deeper bites, but will also take more energy to control and so will likely take more energy to use over an extended time.

The modded BB13 would be the better pure chopper, but I’d rather carry the B11 on my belt, all things considered. OTOH, if I were reaching for a knife to quickly dispatch a sapling that had fallen across a road I was traveling, and had both knives in my vehicle, then I’d likely reach for the modded BB13.

Both excellent knives.:thumbsup:
 
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