Thoughts on 420HC as Blade Steel

[pinnah]

I think comparing 420HC, 12C27, and Vic's INOX is something like comparing a Suburu Forester, Toyata RAV4, and Honda CRV. As a class, they are very close and super reliable and easy to live with. Yes, fans of Porsche and Range Rover won't be content with them and that's fine, but they aren't junk.

My understanding is that the primary difference is in the knife manufacturer's heat treat, not the steel itself. My understanding is that Vic is now getting closer to 56Rc than they did in the past (54Rc).

At lower Rc, I find these steels a bit gummy in the stone and prone to stubborn burrs; more so than 10xx at lower Rcs.

I very much prefer the steel from Buck, Mora, and Opinel over that from Case and Victorinox, much in the same way I prefer Subarus and Toyotas over Hondas.

 

[ursamajor]

At the end of the day, if the steel is consistent (not pot metal) and the blade is designed well, with a good heat treat, it will make for a good knife. Knife steel is the least important factor in making a great knife. Look at Randall-they use 440B


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[traumkommode]

420HC is fine. It's not anything special by itself, but I love carrying a Case Sodbuster Jr. in their TruSharp stainless, which from what I have read is a lower hardness 420, and it sharpens incredibly sharp and cuts what I need it to. It's also very easy to sharpen, even to profile. I happen to love the sodbuster jr. in hand, and the super thin hollow grind of the blade makes it a very effective cutter. I've seen no real world difference in performance between one of these and a GEC in 1095 (440C is a different story).

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I think 420HC is a good blade steel. Ditto on AUS8A and 440, but Cold Steel is the only company I'm aware of that has made decent 440A. There's a lot of junk 440A out there that's impossible to sharpen. But I've got lots of 420 junk steel that's very sharp and easy to sharpen. Four-forty just sounds better.

Kershaw used to do pretty fantastic work with 440A. They had the best heat treatment on it out of any manufacturer I've tried it from.

 

[hiwa]

Does anyone have any experience with Condor machetes in 420hc? It seems like a stainless machete would be very handy especially if it didn't give up much in performance.

I actually like Cold steel machetes so if condor 420hc can keep with Cold steel 1055, it might be what I need.

I have Condor 15" Bolo machetes in 420hc and their 1075 carbon. I can't tell any difference between which one holds a better or longer edge , and they are equally easy to sharpen. I prefer the low maintenance of stainless , especially hacking away at moisture-infused vegetation. If I had to keep one or the other , I'd have no problem sticking with the 420 one.:thumbup:

My Gerber Strongarm and Prodigy that I've beaten the royal 5hit out of has no edge failures like chipping or folding and seems tough as heck. I actually am impressed by the Bucks ,Gerbers and Condors I own that they've performed so well in that steel.
Might have to sharpen a bit more often than premium steels, but since I got lots of diamond sharpeners , no big deal.

 

[Frotier76]

I guess you could say I'm one of those people that put 1095 Carbon Tool Steel on a pedestal high above 420HC as FortyTwoBlades commented about.If knife manufacturers in the USA were using both 440A and 420HC twenty five to thirty years ago it would raise different thoughts.My thoughts would be 'hmm...that 420HC does take an edge quicker,but the 440A seems to hold it's edge a notch or two longer'.

I didn't really gain negative feelings about 420HC through game cleaning,camping,and yard work...it was coarse materials.I began trying 420HC from different knife companies and my result was it dulls faster than any stainless except some 3Cr13MoV out of China or another mystery stainless with a higher carbon level but a low 50's rc in hardness heat treatment from a Chinese factory that makes 100 different things.The BOS Heat Treatment just can't hide what this steel is like naturally so if it's at it's optimum performance from Buck?then so was Schrade and Camillus's heat treatment of it when they stepped down to 420HC in the late 90's/early 2000's.Buck only picked up 420HC because their former steel supplier (Cyclops Steel) went defunct so the 425M(fine blanking version of 440a) was no more...the 420HC was a low cost fine blanking alternative.I really liked 420HC as an outdoors steel as it's common for people to get attached to their hunting steel to use in their daily cutting chores.It's just not hard enough compared to a well heat treated 440A from Uncle Henry,Camillus,Imperial, or an old Kershaw blade in AUS-8.

On the topic of 1095 vs. 420HC Stainless by FortyTwoBlades...

You're talking about an unalloyed tool steel with 0.95-1.03% in carbon versus a soft stainless with 0.46% in carbon.Make a lawnmower blade,an axe head,or a custom set of drills out of 420HC and see how quickly it dulls in comparison.Heck even cheat a little and give the 1095 you test a few points lower in rc hardness over the 420HC when you do the test.A lot of people don't want to admit that a plain inexpensive tool steel that comes out much harder in a heat treatment beats quite a few rust resistant steels out there.Not only in edge retention but sharpening ease on top of that long edge life.And I'm not talking machetes or just wood chopping...I'm talking about a pocket knife.As much as we all love knives here on BladeForums the fact is every production knife is disposable once the blade is rendered unserviceable from numerous sharpenings and that question is 'how many years will that steel last'?.Walk in an antique mall and you'll see 70-100 year old knives in carbon steel with plenty of life left on them...you won't see any in 420HC in the future...and that says something right there.

 

[Tenbeers]

I've stated it before and I'll do so again, most people probably won't use 420HC or other lower cost steels to the full extent of it's capability much less the newer "super" steels. I have no doubt that more expensive grades will hold an edge longer but few will ever use them enough to tell. If you are the designated skinner/processor at a hunting camp you may be able to judge longer term edge holding capabilities of a variety of steels but most of us won't.
Starting out with a thorough sharpening is also a factor in my opinion.

 

[hiwa]

Does anyone have any experience with Condor machetes in 420hc? It seems like a stainless machete would be very handy especially if it didn't give up much in performance.

I actually like Cold steel machetes so if condor 420hc can keep with Cold steel 1055, it might be what I need.

I edited what I guess is a repeat post. Must be getting old, lol.

 

[darthwayne]

dont let anyone fool u...its a horrible blade


i bought my kershaw link with it and even though its better than generic scrapmetal steel, it loses edge real quick

also rolls off easily.


now kershaw links construction is amazing and its a tough knife but the choice of steel is the weak.


i would have thrown the knife but i paid $65 for it

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I guess you could say I'm one of those people that put 1095 Carbon Tool Steel on a pedestal high above 420HC as FortyTwoBlades commented about.If knife manufacturers in the USA were using both 440A and 420HC twenty five to thirty years ago it would raise different thoughts.My thoughts would be 'hmm...that 420HC does take an edge quicker,but the 440A seems to hold it's edge a notch or two longer'.

I didn't really gain negative feelings about 420HC through game cleaning,camping,and yard work...it was coarse materials.I began trying 420HC from different knife companies and my result was it dulls faster than any stainless except some 3Cr13MoV out of China or another mystery stainless with a higher carbon level but a low 50's rc in hardness heat treatment from a Chinese factory that makes 100 different things.The BOS Heat Treatment just can't hide what this steel is like naturally so if it's at it's optimum performance from Buck?then so was Schrade and Camillus's heat treatment of it when they stepped down to 420HC in the late 90's/early 2000's.Buck only picked up 420HC because their former steel supplier (Cyclops Steel) went defunct so the 425M(fine blanking version of 440a) was no more...the 420HC was a low cost fine blanking alternative.I really liked 420HC as an outdoors steel as it's common for people to get attached to their hunting steel to use in their daily cutting chores.It's just not hard enough compared to a well heat treated 440A from Uncle Henry,Camillus,Imperial, or an old Kershaw blade in AUS-8.

On the topic of 1095 vs. 420HC Stainless by FortyTwoBlades...

You're talking about an unalloyed tool steel with 0.95-1.03% in carbon versus a soft stainless with 0.46% in carbon.Make a lawnmower blade,an axe head,or a custom set of drills out of 420HC and see how quickly it dulls in comparison.Heck even cheat a little and give the 1095 you test a few points lower in rc hardness over the 420HC when you do the test.A lot of people don't want to admit that a plain inexpensive tool steel that comes out much harder in a heat treatment beats quite a few rust resistant steels out there.Not only in edge retention but sharpening ease on top of that long edge life.And I'm not talking machetes or just wood chopping...I'm talking about a pocket knife.As much as we all love knives here on BladeForums the fact is every production knife is disposable once the blade is rendered unserviceable from numerous sharpenings and that question is 'how many years will that steel last'?.Walk in an antique mall and you'll see 70-100 year old knives in carbon steel with plenty of life left on them...you won't see any in 420HC in the future...and that says something right there.

It all depends on the application...1095 is very commonly used at lower hardness heat treatments that honestly waste its hardenability, and so you really don't see a lot of difference in performance between 1095 that's been heat treated for toughness vs. 420HC. And absolutely, a low carbide steel is going to blunt faster on abrasive targets, but if most of your cutting is on low-abrasion targets (which most cutting is) it's not going to be an issue. Steels must be appropriately matched to the intended context of use or you'll get poor performance qualities out of it. That doesn't make the steel bad--it makes it bad for that application. 420HC is a perfectly serviceable steel for many knives, and is more than capable of achieving an appropriate level of hardness for general utility purposes. Opening packages (including boxes--you're mostly cutting the tape), food, string, wood, etc., and it does just fine while being fairly tough and rapid to hone when it does dull. If cutting a lot of cardboard or dirty ropes, though, look elsewhere.

 

[Kentucky]

On the right knife, with the right edge geometry and most importantly a good heat treat it is a solid,decent knife steel. If your use to carrying cpm154,3v or xhp then you may not appreciate it very much but done right its ok.
A lot of folks are mentioning 1095..1095 is a different animal from a custom maker than it is from esee..Most of the factory 1095 you see is heat treated wayyyy on the soft side often 56-57 which is a waste honestly. It dosnt need to be that soft to be fairly tough..
Run 1095 around 60-61 and it will surprise you..I watched a little 3" 1095 blade completely skin, breakdown and debone a large bodied 10 point..Afterwords it would still cut printer paper just fine. After about three passes on a leather britches belt it would shave arm hair again.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

On the right knife, with the right edge geometry and most importantly a good heat treat it is a solid,decent knife steel. If your use to carrying cpm154,3v or xhp then you may not appreciate it very much but done right its ok.

Exactly.

 

[Halfneck]

dont let anyone fool u...its a horrible blade


i bought my kershaw link with it and even though its better than generic scrapmetal steel, it loses edge real quick

also rolls off easily.


now kershaw links construction is amazing and its a tough knife but the choice of steel is the weak.


i would have thrown the knife but i paid $65 for it

Opposite experience.

Gifted my son a Kershaw Link that he used hard while working staff at a Boy Scout camp. He'd be home on weekends and I'd sharpen it then. While it would not be shaving sharp, it would still make ragged cuts and accomplish the job at hand.

 

[darthwayne]

Opposite experience.

Gifted my son a Kershaw Link that he used hard while working staff at a Boy Scout camp. He'd be home on weekends and I'd sharpen it then. While it would not be shaving sharp, it would still make ragged cuts and accomplish the job at hand.

kershaw link is a great knife because kershaw has excellent production quality

but 420HC steel on it is just too poor in terms of edge retention...i have to sharpen it so often that i have retired it as a backup knife

i know Made in USA manufacturing costs had to be offset by using cheaper steel and its too bad because overall construction of the knife is amazing with no play and the lock can hold under moderate stress.

 

[Raylas]

Works well enough, I like it. It's not D2 or S30V, but it's nice, and Buck makes great blades with it, so does Condor.

So I think it's good, and gets too much crap sometimes.

 

[Gaston444]

Since I used a 420HC class steel to cut thousands of feet of cardboard without resharpening, I've not been nearly as impressed with steels that were supposed to be much better. If the rest of the design was right is chose 420HC over some super steels.

Of course you are right to trust your actual observation... If anything, I would avoid buying a knife with one of the "super steels", and I flatly refuse to even touch any of the powder steels again... Ever... When I saw how S30V and CPM154cm behave in big choppers (by top end makers) while chopping soft wood, with 30 year old factory 440 or D-2 knives as a reference, I realized I had just been the hapless victim of marketing forces... I think the term is Kool-Aid drinking...

Gaston

 

[sharp_edge]

Since I used a 420HC class steel to cut thousands of feet of cardboard without resharpening, I've not been nearly as impressed with steels that were supposed to be much better. If the rest of the design was right is chose 420HC over some super steels.

Thousands of feet of cardboards without resharpening? really??

 

[darthwayne]

Thousands of feet of cardboards without resharpening? really??

i dont believe that at all

I tried to open cardboard packaging for new bed and mattress and by the time it reached for mattress box...it just stopped slicing and i had to use it by making piercings through the cardboard.

 

[znapschatz]

Thousands of feet of cardboards without resharpening? really??

i dont believe that at all

I tried to open cardboard packaging for new bed and mattress and by the time it reached for mattress box...it just stopped slicing and i had to use it by making piercings through the cardboard.

I doubt you could get that kind of mileage even with Super Steel du jour without resharpening, but in my limited experience, I have noticed differences between the 420HC blade on one make of knife as opposed to that of another, both reputable brands. Without making a controlled comparison, I think my Bucks hold an edge somewhat better than the Leathermen, but I'm okay with either. I have a couple of other knives with either VG10 or S30v blades, but only because they came with each particular knife, not because I was seeking better steel. Any from a good maker suits me well enough.

 

[bt93]

I've had good experience with my Buck 110. I doubt I could cut thousands of feet of cardboard, but it does well and I can get a workable edge on it from most any rock on the ground, not too mention the razor's edge I get free handing on my kitchen steel. I think 420hc is great on my Case knives as while the edge doesn't last long the blades are thin enough that you can keep cutting when they get their dullest. I thought I was going to sprain my wrist though, so I don't recommend that.
420hc is a great steel for those who know how to free hand sharpen and if you don't know how you should get a knife with 420hc just for the purpose of learning to freehand. It get's much sharper than lesser steels so you'll know for sure if your technique is working and it's easier to sharpen so if you're struggling getting an edge on it, you know you're doing something wrong.