Thoughts on 420HC as Blade Steel

[Fanglekai]

Of course you are right to trust your actual observation... If anything, I would avoid buying a knife with one of the "super steels", and I flatly refuse to even touch any of the powder steels again... Ever... When I saw how S30V and CPM154cm behave in big choppers (by top end makers) while chopping soft wood, with 30 year old factory 440 or D-2 knives as a reference, I realized I had just been the hapless victim of marketing forces... I think the term is Kool-Aid drinking...

Gaston

Every alloy has different properties and the heat treatment further differentiates them. There's a difference between slamming a huge knife into a log and using a small blade to actually cut something. Those steels aren't meant for big choppers. There are better choices for that purpose.

420HC is perfectly usable with a good heat treatment. It'll cut longer than most people will need it to. Resharpening is easy. Corrosion resistance is high.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Of course you are right to trust your actual observation... If anything, I would avoid buying a knife with one of the "super steels", and I flatly refuse to even touch any of the powder steels again... Ever... When I saw how S30V and CPM154cm behave in big choppers (by top end makers) while chopping soft wood, with 30 year old factory 440 or D-2 knives as a reference, I realized I had just been the hapless victim of marketing forces... I think the term is Kool-Aid drinking...

Gaston

Not all knives are big choppers

 

[Cobalt]

Since I used a 420HC class steel to cut thousands of feet of cardboard without resharpening, I've not been nearly as impressed with steels that were supposed to be much better. If the rest of the design was right is chose 420HC over some super steels.

 

[Gaston444]

If the geometry of the edge is thin enough, it would not be surprising the 420 knife keeps cutting cardboard, even with a worn apex.

With lower edge angles, edge holding goes up. Put a 20 degree inclusive 420 knife versus 40 degree inclusive INFI, in most materials there's little doubt which one will cut longer...

Gaston

 

[Cobalt]

If the geometry of the edge is thin enough, it would not be surprising the 420 knife keeps cutting cardboard, even with a worn apex.

With lower edge angles, edge holding goes up. Put a 20 degree inclusive 420 knife versus 40 degree inclusive INFI, in most materials there's little doubt which one will cut longer...

Gaston

Gaston, you realize that the pic above has applied to you for quite some time, right.

But to answer your question, while it is true that you can make a knife and an edge so thin that it will cut for a long time that knife will be all but useless for all other tasks you could use your knife for. Especially 420hc and 440a,b.

If you want to test that theory, bring your 440a,b,c blade to blade show 17 ground to 10-12 dps that you like. I will bring my usual 15dps INFI, SR101 or cpm3V ad see which one lasts longer processing cardboard and chopping hard wood.

 

[arty]

I gave up on my Bucks when I found that they needed to be resharpened too often. I had a 110 that struggled to get through one fish. My old Gerber in 440C did much better. Now, I use fishing knives in S35V or VG10. I gave a smaller Buck (Squire) to my daughter, as it would require too frequent sharpening for even light use.
I would rather use properly hardened 1085 or 1095, VG10, or S35V. I generally prefer stainless steels, and 154CM or VG10 represent my usual bottom line for edge holding. I would buy something in AUS8 if I really liked the knife (I have), but prefer better edge holding than I have seen from 420HC.

 

[bt93]

I'm curious as to what kind of fish your catching that the 110 lost it's edge on. All the steels you mention are better than 420 to my knowledge. For fishing though, I've cleaned lots of bass, trout, catfish, and such before I considered the edge to be dull on my 110.
The beauty of 420hc is it's ease of sharpening. If my 110 got dull out camping and I didn't pack a sharpener, I could just find a relatively smooth rock off the ground and get the edge back. All knives of any steel will lose their edge under use, some sooner than others. If you screw up and hit your edge against a rock or such, the steel won't matter much, it'll be dull very fast. I wouldn't want to be out bushwhacking away from society if a S35 blade went dull. Your stuck with a bad edge until you get back to your sharpener. I don't believe 420hc hardened to 58 hrc is any worse than 1095 hardened to 58hrc.

 

[Frotier76]

I wouldn't really say the 'beauty of 420HC' is ease of sharpening at least in my opinion.Now I'm emphasizing currently with the Edge 2000,that's beneficial...think further back to the mid 90's when Buck had their original edge geometry.I could get my 112 back then functional sharp but not impressive.Leatherman's 420HC blades had a much wider bevel over Buck Knives so they were easier to sharpen and brought back much better edge results.No doubt this was a sign to Buck to update their edge 17 years ago.

Now I'll plead guilty on two accounts and bare no shame in saying when those kraton rubber scaled Alpha Hunter fixed blades in 420HC were discontinued...I bought a few.Yes I still love the 112FG Ranger as my favorite Buck model that I do carry daily as soon as I get home.I hunt and fish with this steel and obviously don't mind it in personal use.At work though it clearly shows it's softest quick filing side to the world of better stainless steels.

Imagine being on a hot date with Abigail Ratchford and everything goes well (if you catch my drift).You get down to the birthday suit and realize they have something that well...shouldn't be there...that kind of disappointment.420HC can be a tease if you don't know the strong and weak points behind it and just want to support USA made.Or listen to someone hype the edge retention with about as much honesty as a used car salesman.

 

[bt93]

I wouldn't really say the 'beauty of 420HC' is ease of sharpening at least in my opinion.Now I'm emphasizing currently with the Edge 2000,that's beneficial...think further back to the mid 90's when Buck had their original edge geometry.I could get my 112 back then functional sharp but not impressive.Leatherman's 420HC blades had a much wider bevel over Buck Knives so they were easier to sharpen and brought back much better edge results.No doubt this was a sign to Buck to update their edge 17 years ago.

Now I'll plead guilty on two accounts and bare no shame in saying when those kraton rubber scaled Alpha Hunter fixed blades in 420HC were discontinued...I bought a few.Yes I still love the 112FG Ranger as my favorite Buck model that I do carry daily as soon as I get home.I hunt and fish with this steel and obviously don't mind it in personal use.At work though it clearly shows it's softest quick filing side to the world of better stainless steels.

Imagine being on a hot date with Abigail Ratchford and everything goes well (if you catch my drift).You get down to the birthday suit and realize they have something that well...shouldn't be there...that kind of disappointment.420HC can be a tease if you know the strong and weak points behind it and just want to support USA made.Or listen to someone hype the edge retention with about as much honesty as a used car salesman.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. 420hc is easy to sharpen. Period. If you're saying different angles are harder, don't be scientific about it, change the angle. As far as edge retention is concerned, for me it's acceptable. I understand that some who use it for cleaning large game, have to stop and sharpen it while cleaning something deer sized. It's so easy to sharpen that you can do that. If you know how to freehand, it's a piece of cake to get a Buck back to a razor's edge.

 

[arty]

I'm curious as to what kind of fish your catching that the 110 lost it's edge on. All the steels you mention are better than 420 to my knowledge. For fishing though, I've cleaned lots of bass, trout, catfish, and such before I considered the edge to be dull on my 110.
The beauty of 420hc is it's ease of sharpening. If my 110 got dull out camping and I didn't pack a sharpener, I could just find a relatively smooth rock off the ground and get the edge back. All knives of any steel will lose their edge under use, some sooner than others. If you screw up and hit your edge against a rock or such, the steel won't matter much, it'll be dull very fast. I wouldn't want to be out bushwhacking away from society if a S35 blade went dull. Your stuck with a bad edge until you get back to your sharpener. I don't believe 420hc hardened to 58 hrc is any worse than 1095 hardened to 58hrc.

Small mouth bass. I used a 110 to cut the heads off, and it didn't do nearly as well as a 440C Gerber folding sportsman II. This was many years ago.

 

[Frotier76]

Of course 420HC sharpens up in a snap...so do the Sandvik stainless steels and 1095 Carbon Tool Steel for that matter...PERIOD.Buck wears the crown on 420HC because of the Edge 2000 geometry and that put the steel on the map.Before the Edge 2000 Buck used to just called their steel ' stainless hardened to 58rc' and the marketing name 'Buck Steel'...everybody USA wise had a marketing name for stainless steel, though 420HC wasn't mentioned on packaging.The Edge is what makes the difference in sharpening,slicing,carving...so on a soft fine-grained steel like 420HC this had positive results.If you doubt it then maybe you should read some old posts on Bladeforums on how people felt about the new(at the time) edge...did great things for 420HC all across the board in performance.

 

[bodog]

The first couple of pages made me think I was reading a necro-thread from 1986. Then I realized most people haven't 1) experienced good steel from a good maker 2) are straight up lying, 3) confusing proper steel with proper geometry, 4) know what they're talking about but are drowned out by people who shouldn't be talking because they have no real point of reference.

If all I've ever used is buck's 420, Gerber crap stainless, Victorinox' Inox, and super soft 1095, then sure I'd probably say that buck's 420 is pretty good. But I've used more than that. Hell, get a Kershaw blur. Any blur. The steel will be better than buck's 420. And no, buck doesn't use some magic potion on their steel. Neither does esee or victorinox or whoever. It amazes me that someone can say that buck has world renowned and "amazing" heat treatments. Ugh.

People, there are good and bad steels. There are bad steels done badly. There are poor steels done decently. There are mediocre steels done really good, as in the maker realizes the steels limitations and designs the blade around the limitations. Buck falls in the low range of this one. There are great steels when done with at least a decent heat treatment that are very forgiving to wrong geometry and uses. Then there are really solid steels done very well with a great designer turning them into specialized tools.

Seems that Cobalt and Whitty are one of a few people in this thread who seem to know their @$$ from a hole in the ground.

Sorry to everyone else who sings the praises of 420HC. It's just not very good. It's cheap. In cheap knives. If you can't afford a better knife then buck isn't a bad company. Neither is Kershaw or Ontario or victorinox or even opinel. But you don't buy cheap knives and then scream from the mountains how great they are. It makes it sound like you really have no idea what you're talking about.

OP, 420HC is a cheap steel. If you want something that can cut a lot of wood and pallet strapping and whatnot you would probably want to look at something pretty hard and fairly thin unless you are going to pry the hell out the knife. Keep it realistic with a 15-20 degree per side edge bevel.

Try a spyderco with hap40 that's out now. Even go for one if the S110V offerings. You can get something that'll blow 420HC and buck in general out of the water for around $100.

Again, if you can't afford that then Buck isn't bad. But it's not anywhere near a top performer done by a company with voodoo priests in some back room chanting over steel and making it better than it can be.