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Thoughts on my Kershaw Knockout (some good, some bad unfortunately)

Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
59
I've been waiting to snag a Knockout ever since they were announced this time last year. I wasn't smart enough to get in a pre-order early, and so missed the first shipment. A few days ago after becoming frustrated with the wait, I picked up a Paramilitary 2. It's a very nice knife, but just wasn't for me. When another BF user posted a like new Knockout for sale, I jumped on it.

I'm going to start out with the good, just so this doesn't come across solely as a gripe post. There are some things (IMO) this design got wrong, but there are some it got VERY right. Firstly, the ergonomics on this knife are superb. I hope whoever did the original trace on this knife got a nice Christmas bonus. :)

I love the aesthetics, as well as the blade shape; it's what attracted me to the knife in the first place. I really can't think of a single thing this knife got wrong in that area.



There are a few things about this knife, though, that just don't sit well with me. Before it seems that I'm being unfair, I realize that this knife is intended as a slim, lightweight knife, in the form factor of a larger knife. Kershaw really took this design to the bleeding edge, but IMO in some ways, they went a little over the edge.

My first concern is the pocket on the backside of the left scale, which contains the hidden half-liner (for reinforcement). The internal pocket was machined first before the decorative milling on the outside. After the internal pocket was machined, the G10 went convex due to its own internal stresses. That left a visible area on the outside of the knife where the decorative milling was not able to cut deeply enough due to the dip in the material.
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I measured the the decorative grooves with my depth micrometer, and the average depth throughout the outside of the knife body is between 0.0045 and 0.0055 inches. The depth in the center of the depression is 0.001 inches. When you have a decorative groove that is only 0.005 deep, a 0.004 difference is quite significant. If the warpage had been any worse, the decorative milling wouldn't have even made it through the texture portion of the G10 sheet.

It is very visible in any light, and from any angle. It was a bit disturbing for me, because I usually expect nothing less than perfection from Kershaw. This is what I would consider a rather amateur mistake in machining. I don't mean that to insult the fine American workers in Kershaw's factory, but if this was in my shop, I certainly would have cut the decorative detail before milling the underside pocket, and destabilizing the material. Additionally, if the underside pocket is cut last, it ensures that its dimensions won't be affected by changes that occur after the decorative detail is added on the other side.
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This knife is designed to be as lightweight and slim as possible, and so has very limited liners under the G10 scales. Because of this, the front of the knife where the pivot resides, is very unstable. By pinching the lower front of the scales together (with firm but not excessive force), I am able to expand the gap between the scales at the stop pin, from 0.1445", to 0.1650". In a resting closed position (without squeezing the bottom front of the scales), I am able to close the gap from 0.1530" to 0.1445" by pinching the top of the scales. In a resting position, the stop pin has just over 0.010" of lateral play, as well as roughly 0.001" of play in the scales (which is well within reason, we're talking a synthetic composite material here, although G10 is very strong, it does have limited mechanical stability).
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The flex in the front of the knife is severe enough that if a right hander is using the knife, gentle pressure is enough to cause the scale to rub the blade as it is opening. Slightly firmer pressure will actually prevent the blade from fully opening. It takes very little pressure to cause the scale to touch the blade.
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After opening the blade, the lock has roughly 50% engagement.
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Gently wiggling the blade causes the engagement to set to somewhere around 70%
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A very gentle squeeze will set the lock all the way against the opposite scale. This concerns me, because as the lock breaks in, it will eventually cease to tightly engage the blade. I don't see full lock failure as a serious possibility, but it still is disturbing. I don't like the idea of significant blade play in the future. I'm especially concerned with the combination of this, and the relatively loose, small diameter lock pin that is supported solely in G10, with no metal liner support.
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I know that some people were dissapointed when it was announced that the knife had been switched from all aluminum scales, to G10 with hidden liners. Looking at all of the features and design aspects of this knife, I can see that it was definitely designed with all aluminum scales in mind. I don't want to go as far as to say that the design became faulty from the switch to G10, but IMO it came very close. I understand this isn't meant as a "beater" knife or a prybar, but as it sits now, the physical size of the knife does not match up to the mechanical stability of the design. I'm sure some won't agree with me, but that is my personal opinion after review. If the original all aluminum design was retained, I believe that it would be perfectly matched.

I showed the knife to a few of the engineers at work today, and they came to the same conclusion without any coaching. On a positive note, they loved the knife otherwise. ;)

In its current state, I can't say that I'm confident in the long term durability of this knife. I love the design so much, that I'm somewhat on the fence as to whether I plan on keeping it, or continuing the hunt for my next "perfect" EDC. The only thing swaying my opinion is my love for Kershaw as a company, and the knowledge that I can probably get any future problem taken care of rather easily. I also didn't exactly spend a fortune on the knife.



I can still see a definite niche for this knife in its current state and price point. I must say though, I would GLADLY have paid $100+ for a much more robust, all aluminum version of this knife with slightly upgraded blade steel. The overall design of this knife is undeniably awesome.
 
Thank you for the thorough and honest review. I also was let down with the handle material switch. That's the biggest reason that kept me from ordering this one, plus the change of the lock bar color to black instead of silver. It sucks that this knife has problems, and hopefully it's just your example that suffers from these flaws. But if not, hopefully Kershaw follows the same direction Spyderco does with constant changes to make their knives better. I still LOVE the design, but I think I may be going with the Echelon instead if these problems are persistent in all of the Knockouts.
 
Wow. Can't believe something that flimsy left the factory. Aluminum is structural, and G10 isn't. Seems like they would have modified the design a little after the material switch.
 
Wow. Can't believe something that flimsy left the factory. Aluminum is structural, and G10 isn't. Seems like they would have modified the design a little after the material switch.

I was very surprised when I got it.

I just wanted to add that the degree of the warpage on the left scale can be seen clearly in the last three pics that I was using to illustrate the lock engagement.

If you look at the lock side (top in photo) you can see the approx 0.015" gap which is "normal". If you look at the other side (bottom in photo) you can see the the lower section of the scale is almost touching the blade, and the gap tapers up to the matching 0.015" as seen on the other side.

The best I can tell is that the scale that houses the half-liner is warped approx. 0.009" across an inch, due to the stresses let loose from the material removal, combined with the lack of stability from the very thin area which is attempting to support the portion of the scale near the finger guard. The opposite scale is straight and parallel to the blade, whereas that scale warps down towards the blade as you move farther from the top of the knife. By the time you reach the bottom of the scale, the gap to the blade is only a few thousandths at most, which is why it is so easy to get the scale to rub on the blade during opening. It's already pretty much touching.

edit: I also wanted to mention, the pivot screw is properly adjusted, so the excessive movement shown above in the stop pin illustrations is from the scales flexing, not from a loose pivot screw allowing the scales to move freely.

edit edit: I also also wanted to mention, that if the scale was not warped, and the depression of the half-liner was not visible externally on the decorative machining, It would be a lot easier for me to overlook the other issues I mentioned. If you look at the knife in profile, and then look at the overall thickness of the knife, it's quite impressive. What's even more impressive, is how the knife feels in hand. It carries like a slim gentleman's knife, but feels in hand like a robust tactical knife (as long as you don't expect to play rough with it).
 
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No problem. :)

I do ask that nobody write this knife off based solely on my post. I really am interested to hear Kershaw's take on my concerns, and see if there is some underlying issue I've missed on this particular sample that is causing the instability in the front end of the knife.

My above analysis is based upon external examination only; I haven't had the knife apart futher to investigate any possible internal causes of these issues.

One reason I made an effort above to add contradictions to my observations is that Kershaw has really tried to do something special with this knife... pushing the boundaries of weight, size, and ease of carry, all within a very tight price bracket. To put it simply, I don't think I've ever seen so much knife squeezed into such a small space... the only other two knives I can think of that approach it are both Kershaws, one being the Skyline, and the other being the sometimes overlooked Chill by RJ Martin (sadly, because it's an amazing knife).

The only way I can really describe this knife would be an ultralight ZT0350, or something of that sort.
 
I did not order this one because it looks a lot like my Rake . A pretty heavy duty little folder. And the ZT 0350 has even thicker liners, it's a little tank, but a way different knife in handle and blade shape... I love both.
 
ahh man sorry your not happy with it I didnt notice any of that stuff while it had it , but I wasnt really looking either
 
ahh man sorry your not happy with it I didnt notice any of that stuff while it had it , but I wasnt really looking either

Don't worry about it. I'm not happy but I'm not mad either.

You did mention the rubbing in your sale ad; I just think that you didn't look any deeper than that. I don't have any problem with your description of the knife or the sale in general. Thanks for shipping so fast!
 
I was thinking about getting a knockout but now I'm a little hesitant...does anyone else have similar issues with theirs? Is it possible this knife is a lemon from the factory?
 
I was thinking about getting a knockout but now I'm a little hesitant...does anyone else have similar issues with theirs? Is it possible this knife is a lemon from the factory?

I'm in the same boat, as I've had one on pre-order since Thanksgiving. The problem is, I don't think there's very many people who even own one, at this point, to get enough feedback on these possible issues.
 
I'm not sure if other samples may have a more stable front end, but I can say this... in its current state, I wouldn't feel right selling or giving away this knife. I don't feel that it is safe to use. The flex in the front end is bad enough, combined with the play in the stop pin and its insufficent support, that I am close to 100% confident that I could pop out the stop pin if I was exerting extreme downward force during a cut.

If I had a sample that was not warped from the recess for the half-liner, I could see the stop-pin having a bit more stability, but even then I would question its long term endurance. G10 has superb impact resistance perpendicular to the direction of the lamination of the composite, but impacts parallel to the lamination will eventually cause de-lamination and feathering. It's only a matter of time until the G10 supporting the stop pin begins to delaminate due to repeated impact from the blade snapping open.

We use a massive amount of different grades of Garolite at work for tooling, and I'm very familiar with what it can and can withstand. The only thing I don't have a good sense of is exactly how long this design would last.

I don't see any replacements being available for months to come, so I may just write this one off as a loss and move on.
 
I'm in the same boat, as I've had one on pre-order since Thanksgiving. The problem is, I don't think there's very many people who even own one, at this point, to get enough feedback on these possible issues.


After reading this are you going to cancel the pre order? I was close to pre ordering one from knife center yesterday and then read this today. I really do like the looks of this knife and the blade shape is what really drew me to it. What to do?
 
After reading this are you going to cancel the pre order? I was close to pre ordering one from knife center yesterday and then read this today. I really do like the looks of this knife and the blade shape is what really drew me to it. What to do?

Undecided, but possibly yes. Interested to see if others chime in...
 
After reading this are you going to cancel the pre order? I was close to pre ordering one from knife center yesterday and then read this today. I really do like the looks of this knife and the blade shape is what really drew me to it. What to do?

I know this question wasn't addressed to me, but I've been waiting for this knife for literally a year. I've wanted it ever since it was announced in January of 2011. I thought it was going to be my "perfect EDC".

When I finally got it, I tried everything I could to excuse its shortcomings, but I just can't overlook them. Trust me, I was so sprung on this knife that I was actually willing to lie to myself just to keep it.

I can't give you advice on whether to cancel your pre-order. It's a very tough question for me. I love the looks and ergonomics of this knife, but it is BY FAR the flimsiest Kershaw I've ever had my hands on, and that includes the Chill, which is one of the slimmest, lightest knives I've ever owned.
 
Yea I didnt even use it as im sure you could tell from the factory edge I flipped it open some, took out the assist but without it there was no detent so I put it back in, I am not a fan of assisted knives in general
 
I know this question wasn't addressed to me, but I've been waiting for this knife for literally a year. I've wanted it ever since it was announced in January of 2011. I thought it was going to be my "perfect EDC".

When I finally got it, I tried everything I could to excuse its shortcomings, but I just can't overlook them. Trust me, I was so sprung on this knife that I was actually willing to lie to myself just to keep it.

I can't give you advice on whether to cancel your pre-order. It's a very tough question for me. I love the looks and ergonomics of this knife, but it is BY FAR the flimsiest Kershaw I've ever had my hands on, and that includes the Chill, which is one of the slimmest, lightest knives I've ever owned.


I know what you mean man I had the same idea of it being "the perfect EDC." I had a red blur an this is what I was going to use in its place. The reason I liked the knockout was the frame lock instead of the liner lock on the blur, I thought it would be more robust but now I'm not so sure. Iman what would you recommend for an EDC from kershaw? Maybe I should replace my blur, but I've also been thinking about getting on the preorder list for the ZT 0561...
 
Yea I didnt even use it as im sure you could tell from the factory edge I flipped it open some, took out the assist but without it there was no detent so I put it back in, I am not a fan of assisted knives in general

So you took it apart????????
 
Let me guess...you must be an engineer. :D

I'm a pretengineer. Basically a fancy technician that knows too much for his own good. I work at an R&D/Engineering/Manufacturing company, and spend waaaaaaay too much time around real engineers.


So you took it apart????????

I wasn't aware this knife had been dissassembled until now. The above analysis was based upon the assumption that it was a brand new, factory condition knife.

I can't say that I feel that any damage was done, but it does raise the question as to whether the poor fitment of the lock came about during reassembly.

That said, it does nothing to excuse the poor quality machining on the decorative detail on the scale, and the lack of stability in the front of the knife. I did adjust the pivot screw myself (as I do with every knife), so I can still confirm that is not part of the issue.



I think at this point we should let Kershaw chime in. I can say that this knife is pretty much a writeoff for me now, as I don't believe Kershaw's warranty covers dissassembly, and I am not willing to pass it on to someone else. Lesson learned.
 
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