Thoughts on selling 2nds and personal users???

CKE2

CKE2

Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
1,574
Hey folks!

Title kind of says it....what are you makers doing with your seconds? How about personal users that you tire of....?

Give em away, sell them cheaper????

I know I have sold a couple of ones I have used over the past few years making sure the customer knows full well in advance that he/she is buying a knife I have been using.
I have never sold a second....anything with a major flaw I will not sell....usually end up scraping:grumpy: the blade or tossing it into my "pay closer attention" pile as a constant reminder:D

One benefit is a customer who may normally not be able to afford a custom knife gets one for cheaper. Also, a user, is most definetly tried and true with age and use.

Your thoughts???

Craig
 
As far as i am concerned about my work there is no seconds. I have given away a lot of knives over the years but nothing that i would not put for sale with my name on with a full money back guarantee. There is no place in the custom or handmade market in my opinion for seconds.

Bob
 
Some would probably be okay to sell kind of as a "blem" knife for a discount, or you could give them to friends. If it makes you uneasy having second quality knives out there with your name on them, maybe not a good idea. Maybe you could mark it "blem" or something? Screwed up knives with okay blades are good for destruction testing or it's always good to have a few to carry for personal use. I have one I made with a cool pattern of twisted alternating crane and tension cables that etched very nicely, but I found a hairline crack when polishing. You can't really see the crack without close scrutiny, but I finished the knife the rest of the way and kept it. I show it to people, tell them why I kept it, (it's not even sharpened) and use it for an example of that steel and handle combination. So not only do they get a good picture of the materials, but can infer that even though they can't see the crack, I wouldn't sell it with a flaw.
Just my $.02
 
Mr. Mayo is right on the money.
I'll carry them and I'll use them, but they are not gonna be in the possession of anyone who might not keep it forever.....and I don't mean until they are gone......longer..
There is an..actually a few, old coffee cans that get the ones what shouldn't go anywhere...hopefully befor the handle slabs are added......
 
Completed knives that are not up to snuff are just not sold. I carry them some time but they mostly end up in my 11 year old son's collection.
 
I don't have 2nds so to speak but I have had a few very patina'd users of mine bought right off of me. I usually sell em for less than 1/2 or at least what I have in it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if a guy wants to take my well loved and used knife for his own who am I to say no :)

Shows they are meant to be used and not collected.
 
I think the major issue to consider is not the 1st customer you sell your 2nd to. Rather, it is who that customer may sell it to down the road.

The end result could be a knife sold without full disclosure that does not properly reflect the work you actually do. I recall a thread the the GB&U forum about that specific thing happening. The maker in that case really showed their true colors (In a great way :thumbup:) however it still put them in an unfortunate situation.
 
ColdOne said:
I think the major issue to consider is not the 1st customer you sell your 2nd to. Rather, it is who that customer may sell it to down the road.

The end result could be a knife sold without full disclosure that does not properly reflect the work you actually do. I recall a thread the the GB&U forum about that specific thing happening. The maker in that case really showed their true colors (In a great way :thumbup:) however it still put them in an unfortunate situation.
Click to expand...

I've run into this with knives I gave away. I thought they weren't good enough to sell, then someone asked for it, so I gave it away. Then they wind up selling the knife, and the new buyer e-mails em asking if I'll fix the original problem.

So now all the 2nds go to my mom and dad. They love everything I make, so they're happy that way.
 
Yeah. That is a problem. You have this knife, and it is a good functional knife that is mechanically correct, but messed up sanding the scale and it isn't shaped quite right. Or a grind isn't quite right, and the fix for it is no good. I have a few of these, it would be nice to give them a home.

I made some screw ups in bulk a couple months ago. I was tumbling too many at once and was using too long of screws to keep them from sticking together and had a "log jam" in the tumbler and seven blades managed to get themselves in a knot. After a night of rubbing against each other in the same spots they were pretty well cosmetically ruined. Perfectly functional...junk. The imperfections could have been ground out, but it would have ruined the lines of the knife, which isn't any better. So, into the trash can they go.

It is a pity to discard these knives when there is work they could be doing, but I haven't figured it out yet. Give them to friends I guess.
 
As far as a personal user, that's just extra testing and I would throw that in at no additional charge :D

As far as seconds, no way, never, not gonna happen. I'm learning this trade in large measure for the personal pride and satisfaction of it. If I wouldn't sign my name to it, it never leaves the shop. If folks want cheap seconds, they can go to Wally World ;)
 
I'm just going to second everyone..... my users are mainly for prototyping and field testing. I have no problem cleaning them up and selling them, in fact I have sold more than a few knives off of my belt. Seconds go straight into the bucket of steel or get used during practice on skills I'm working on.
 
Over the years I have sold many of knives, that I was going to keep for myself. And it usually ends up being adopted into someone else's family's collection. That's one benefit of being a knife maker. I do it because I love making knives. I am happy that they are appreciated. :)

Terry
 
Thanks for the replies and some good points to consider:thumbup:

Like some have said, a lot of knifemakers must sell knives off their belts:)

As I said above, selling something with your name on it must stand for something. I would not do it( selling a second), yet I had never even considered the giving one away and then having said person try and sell it down the road. You really have to be careful out there.
 
This is a very interesting thread. I can understand the "there are no seconds" and "who that customer may sell it to down the road" thought process and it makes complete sense. On the other hand, there are budding collectors here that would appreciate the opportunity to own a custom at a price that would be otherwise prohibitive. For many, it might be their first step into customs. Isn't there any middle ground that could be found?
 
go mike said:
...put a 2 next to it, or a s or something to symbolize that it is a second.
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That would be fair, Mike. I've seen some big-name guitars marked like that; they were perfectly serviceable. I guess it depends on if you consider "second" to mean mechanical or purely cosmetic issues. Either way, I'm not going there.

Robert Mayo said:
There is no place in the custom or handmade market in my opinion for seconds.
Bob
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Absolutely. We charge a premium for our work, and our customers deserve to know that it's worthwhile.

SPXTrader said:
Isn't there any middle ground that could be found?
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To my mind, this middle-ground or entry-level can be addressed with knives that wear inexpensive but durable handle materials like micarta, dymondwood, and the like. Perhaps an integral "guard" on a full tang, instead of a fitted guard on a narrow tang. It seems many knife users are quite happy with a nice 400 or 600 grit finish, this will save them money too. These options provide the customer with a way to save some bucks without affecting the quality of the knife.

In no instance should blade material or craftsmanship be compromised. That's the whole point of custom and handmade knives. Just my $.02
 
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SPXTrader said:
This is a very interesting thread. I can understand the "there are no seconds" and "who that customer may sell it to down the road" thought process and it makes complete sense. On the other hand, there are budding collectors here that would appreciate the opportunity to own a custom at a price that would be otherwise prohibitive. For many, it might be their first step into customs. Isn't there any middle ground that could be found?
Click to expand...

My advice NO!

I sold a couple here and they were good knives -BUT...
The knife did not close dead center, kinda 35 - 65 issue.
And I got a BAD review here on the web - forums.
After that they all closed dead center or they got bounced off the drive way.
I'm talking slip-joint knives here, but like said above there should NOT be any seconds.
Especially with the INTERNET, bad reviews can hurt a maker........ :thumbdn:

And ya can't blame the guy - buyer - collector.
They are buying something that should be right.

That said there is no thing as a perfect knife.
But you/we as makers should not send one out or sale one. OR give it away with an issue.
Not now days. Word travels way to fast.

When I first started making knives all most 30 years ago.
I ground up a pile of junk. I used those knives to do my testing on.
And it paid off, gave me the chance to learn what my knives could do.
I perfected my heat treat and got to were I could make a knife.

As a maker of custom - hand made knives I know what to look for as far as flaws.
It does surprise me how many collectors do not know what to look for, as far as flaws in a custom knife.
BUT with the web, they are learning fast.......:)
So be very careful what you sale.

Todd
 
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