Threads being wrongly closed in the Kershaw/ZT forum

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connorr93

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I have noticed over the past few months that there has been a large number of unjustified threads being closed in this sub forum. If a thread is made that is even slightly questioning ZT's quality, steel, or warranty it gets closed.

It appears that the mods want to completely shut out any negative feedback from ZT users. I recently made a thread showing some issues with my 0560 and it was shut down for absolutely no reason. A recent thread asking about problems with elmax steel was also closed for no reason.

Are mods really this afraid of negative feedback? Mods claim that threads are being shut down for "bad attitudes" and because threads wander "off topic" but their choices to close threads are not objective and are extremely biased. For example, if a thread was created praising ZT, a specific knife, or a certain steel, and some members got in a small argument or the thread went off topic it would most certainly not be closed. But if a thread was created that brought up issues with a knife, steel, ext. mods would most certainly try to find some justification to close it.

In my opinion, in order for a forum to function properly members must be able to share their opinions and talk freely about issues and problems. It makes me sick to see the gross misconduct of the mods that patrol this forum and shut down any voices that oppose their opinion.

Here are a few examples:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1084315-ZT-s-Elmax

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-impressed-with-the-quality-of-my-new-ZT-0560

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1083151-Kershaw-s-Image-in-the-Knife-Community

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1003879-Skyline-deployment-issues/page3
 
Members should bear in mind that a manufacturer having a forum here does not give members license to act how they please.
It does not give them any rights to post negativity before contacting that manufacturers customer service in response to their particular problem. It also does not give members the right to post whatever or however they please in the manufacturers forum.

Members should always act in an adult manner, post in a concise and constructive manner and treat the manufacturer and it's forum in a manner that they themselves would wish to be treated. Members should always remember that they are guests in these forums and the site as a whole and should act with some manners, etiquette and decorum, as if they were a guest in someones house. The manufacturers forums are their showrooms, so to speak, and should be respected. A bit of respect goes a long way, and it works both ways.

Apparently you also have a response here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1085375-Closing-threads
 
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I find it annoying as well. Even thinking of questioning either spyderco or kershaw/zt is like a sin around here lol
 
I suppose the OP and a few others just chose the wrong vehicle to air their grievances.
Pretty sure there is a feedback section for such things, and maybe he would have had better luck there.
The best thing to do is not go into the manufacturers forum if you don't agree with how they run things.
 
Seilu said:
I find it annoying as well. Even thinking of questioning either spyderco or kershaw/zt is like a sin around here lol
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Exactly how I feel. If you have even the slightest issue with a knife you better keep it to yourself.
 
I have seen manufacturers take positive action when an actual problem has been discussed on their forums. As a for-instance the time that Spyderco discovered that the heat treat on one of their mules was incorrectly done.

I have also seen a lot of BS posts by people who do not know what they are talking about. The manufacturers are not carpets to be trod upon in the name of "customer satisfaction". They are not there so that someone can bash them, then pound their chest as if they had shown what a man they were by bashing the big bad manufacturer.

I read that first link. It got closed because a member with his own agenda and a history of bashing knife companies started posting BS again. My favorite line was posted by KAI. "We have yet to see even 1 example of a burned edge that has been sent back to the factory, so I am at a loss here.." Why would KAI take the "problem" seriously if no one can actually show it to them. And that being the case, why keep the thread open?
 
connorr93 said:
Exactly how I feel. If you have even the slightest issue with a knife you better keep it to yourself.
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Not necessarily. Some subforums are more amenable to open discussion than others. For example, I have some concerns about the design and materials used in the 0566. Rather than stating those concerns in the Kershaw Knives/ZT forum, I aired them in the General Knife Discussion forum. See post #324 here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Most-Overrated-Folder?p=12300422#post12300422

Can you imagine the kind of reception I would have received had I published that post in the Kershaw Knives/ZT Forum? And yet none of the Kershaw Knives/ZT mods came over to the General Knife Discussion forum to shut down the thread I posted my comments in, let alone challenge me. I maintained a respectful distance from them and they did likewise.

Sometimes it isn't what you say, it's how and WHERE you say it that counts.
 
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BF is not the government and this is not a public forum.

In the thread in question, the OP there claimed a number of problems with a ZT knife (none including a "burned edge") and posted pictures said to illustrate the problems.

He also posted:

1. That they were "small flaws';
2. That the claimed problems did not effect the functionality of the knife;
3. That KAI had agreed to take the knife back; and
4. "After re-examining the knife I realize I might have been expecting a bit to much from ZT. Most of the flaws that stood out when I first opened the knife don't really bother me anymore. My expectations were probably a little to high for this knife but I still love it."

A rather mild back and forth then broke out, in which defenders of ZT heavily outnumbered detractors and only one personal comment was made.

In those posts:

Seven posters took the position "no harm; no foul" since KAI was taking the knife back

Six posters otherwise defended ZT quality

Eight posters appealed for calm and courtesy

Two posts questioned if it was a used or parts knife

Two posts defended the OP's raising of the claimed problems

Two posters expressed confidence in KAI authorized dealers

One poster expressed concern over the claimed problems

One poster attacked the OP

One poster said, on the basis of this one sample, he would not buy a ZT knife. (Is this someone you would want as a customer?)

On the basis of this last post, the thread was locked, noting there were other forums.

The OP protested the lockage of the thread in General, and that thread was locked by the Kai mod.

This started out as a tempest in a teapot.

Gasoline or oil on troubled waters?
 
Good analysis, Thomas. Not only does it appear to be gasoline or oil on troubled waters, it also seems like it doesn't take much to ignite it. Then again, the Kershaw Knives/ZT mods have made their position perfectly clear. If you don't have anything nice to say in their subforum, stay out.
 
We should be clear. It was on the 3rd page with the post about not buying ZT that the original thread got closed.
 
Thomas Linton said:
The OP protested the lockage of the thread in General, and that thread was locked by the Kai mod.
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Do the manufactures really have the authority to lock threads outside of their respective forums?

I was surprised in the past when the KAI moderator actually warned someone to watch what they say outside of their forum, but I find it very troubling indeed that they can also lock threads.
 
I'll be honest, the authoritarian moderation in the KAI subforum definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but it's their subforum and they should moderate it how they see fit. If it gets restrictive enough I'll stop buying their products (I'm sure the worry over this causes them many sleepless nights ;)), but until then I avoid it unless I have something totally positive to say. They make the rules there and it doesn't matter onewhit how I feel about it.
 
Only super mods can exercise their authority in all forums. Forum mods only control their own forums. Manufacturer forum mods are only responsible for their company. Remember, manufacturer forums are company showrooms. They are not FEEDBACK or Whine & Cheese unless the company runs them that way.

Complaints about knives can certainly be brought to the manufacturer forum. But present them respectfully and go along with their requests to send it in if they feel they can help fix the problem. KAI does not want to see attitude and arguments.
 
The OP protested the lockage of the thread in General, and that thread was locked by the Kai mod.
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I understand this to mean a Kershaw/ZT thread was locked when it complained about a thread that was locked in General. The thread in General was not locked by the Kershaw mod.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Only super mods can exercise their authority in all forums. Forum mods only control their own forums. Manufacturer forum mods are only responsible for their company. Remember, manufacturer forums are company showrooms. They are not FEEDBACK or Whine & Cheese unless the company runs them that way.

Complaints about knives can certainly be brought to the manufacturer forum. But present them respectfully and go along with their requests to send it in if they feel they can help fix the problem. KAI does not want to see attitude and arguments.
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Understood.
Perhaps I misread Thomas' post, I thought he meant that the KAI mod locked a thread in the General Knife Discussion.
 
Kershaw made an interesting decision with the new "KAI Corp" user name. It's obviously Thomas W. doing the posting, he claims it is a group but there's no missing the similarities.

It baffles me that a company like Kershaw would allow the type of behavior that goes on, can they really think that sending their representative out to try and win arguments on the internet helps their image? Sure it's cool to see up and coming designs and address concerns with a Kershaw representative. "KAI Corp" getting involved with threads in the general forum like the "Al Mar" thread is what I don't understand, what is to be gained by the arguing and arrogance displayed in this thread?

I don't understand the heavy handed approach regarding discussing delivery dates etc. If Kershaw wants to shut down any negative comments then that's fine for their own sub-forum though I don't care for this style of moderation. Some forums take care of themselves, you don't see tons of threads closed on Spyderco or Benchmade. The Hinderer sub-forum is also very tightly controlled, however RCK has members moderating instead of a company representative which makes far more sense to me.

I'm completely turned off by the behavior of "KAI Corp". I have no choice but to assume that "KAI Corp" represents Kershaw. I love my 0550, it's my favorite "Cheap" knife, I like my 0560 but sold it when I bought a Hinderer. Unfortunately I have no desire to buy any other Kershaw products because of the atmosphere that they create here. The funny thing is that by all accounts Thomas W is a nice enough guy in person.
 
If Esav says it, it's so. I apologize for my error. Apparently another mod locked the thread in General.
 
It's easy to rant and spread negativity when someone is unhappy with a product and you see it often in the forums. These types of threads rarely solve any problems. The thread usually creates more negativity.

On the other hand, if you really want help with your problem, you will calmly state your case and look for solutions.
The first post of a thread creates the atmosphere of the thread. Make it a positive post.

I am happy to see KAI close the negative, trainwreck threads early. Part of me misses the drama-filled arguing but I guess I needed to grow up someday. ;)
 
Thomas Linton said:
If Esav says it, it's so. I apologize for my error. Apparently another mod locked the thread in General
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If we're talking about the same thread, it was closed by another mod (not myself), as the involved parties had solved their differences offline and any further discussion or speculation on the subject was unnecessary and most likely unproductive.


Nullity said:
It's easy to rant and spread negativity when someone is unhappy with a product and you see it often in the forums. These types of threads rarely solve any problems. The thread usually creates more negativity.

On the other hand, if you really want help with your problem, you will calmly state your case and look for solutions.
The first post of a thread creates the atmosphere of the thread.
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Well said, Nullity.
This is something not everyone understands.
As a customer, company rep and supermod, i'm uniquely qualified to answer on this subject....
I do understand a customers frustration at having a problem with a product, but that in no way gives them license to come into my forum with a poor attitude and use poor behavior as an excuse to get me to respond to their needs. In fact it more than likely will make me less inclined to want to help them. 9 times out of 10, I would provide customer service regardless, especially if it is faulty product. In certain cases of especially poor behavior, I would be inclined issue a refund upon return of the product and ask them to purchase elsewhere.
 
ElConquistador said:
Kershaw made an interesting decision with the new "KAI Corp" user name. It's obviously Thomas W. doing the posting, he claims it is a group but there's no missing the similarities.
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Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about.

The funny thing is that by all accounts Thomas W is a nice enough guy in person.
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Sure he is. I'm sure you are as well.
 
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