Threads being wrongly closed in the Kershaw/ZT forum

[Kai Corp.]

I have noticed over the past few months that there has been a large number of unjustified threads being closed in this sub forum. If a thread is made that is even slightly questioning ZT's quality, steel, or warranty it gets closed.

It appears that the mods want to completely shut out any negative feedback from ZT users. I recently made a thread showing some issues with my 0560 and it was shut down for absolutely no reason. A recent thread asking about problems with elmax steel was also closed for no reason.

Are mods really this afraid of negative feedback? Mods claim that threads are being shut down for "bad attitudes" and because threads wander "off topic" but their choices to close threads are not objective and are extremely biased. For example, if a thread was created praising ZT, a specific knife, or a certain steel, and some members got in a small argument or the thread went off topic it would most certainly not be closed. But if a thread was created that brought up issues with a knife, steel, ext. mods would most certainly try to find some justification to close it.

In my opinion, in order for a forum to function properly members must be able to share their opinions and talk freely about issues and problems. It makes me sick to see the gross misconduct of the mods that patrol this forum and shut down any voices that oppose their opinion.

Here you go connor93. In case you haven't read it. I doubt it will make a difference to you, but maybe. In the meantime, I'll not take your rant too personally.http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1085375-Closing-threads

 

[scotchleaf]

The old Kershaw forum introduced me to the brand and convinced me to purchase many of their knives. I don't think this new person is Thomas, his attitude was...different. At least I hope it isn't. And does anyone else feel that the zts are similar to the old higher quality Kershaws, but at 2-3 times the price? I don't think I would be allowed to post that question in kai's forum. Compare a Kershaw spec bump, which you could get for about $120, or the Tyrade, which was insanely good at about $200, to the zt 560, which you apparently can't expect to be perfect at $260. I mean, even Cold Steel (shudder) let's people criticize on their forum, I think.

 

[Kai Corp.]

I don't think this new person is Thomas, his attitude was...different.
At least I hope it isn't.

This question has been answered multiple times already.

And does anyone else feel that the zts are similar to the old higher quality Kershaws, but at 2-3 times the price? I don't think I would be allowed to post that question in kai's forum. Compare a Kershaw spec bump, which you could get for about $120, or the Tyrade, which was insanely good at about $200, to the zt 560, which you apparently can't expect to be perfect at $260.

Probably not the thread for this, but sure you could. It has potential to get a bad reaction though. As long as there is civility there are no issues. I'm unsure why that point is having a hard time getting across.

 

[Fanglekai]

Don't worry this thread will be locked too with or without another contrived excuse given. Sorry I can't mention a timeframe that's not allowed LOL!! No tongue in cheek posts allowed! Serious posts serious subforum.

It's become unwelcoming for anyone but the praising clique. But of course ymmv imho ymmv etc etc. Definitely disappointing to see that subforum going that direction. I own a good number of KAI products but I'm not a fanboy, so I'm not welcome there.

Ymmv
Ymmv
Imho
Ymmv
Imho

One man's view on it. Ymmv. Imho.

 

[bravodelta]

I'll be honest, the authoritarian moderation in the KAI subforum definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but it's their subforum and they should moderate it how they see fit. If it gets restrictive enough I'll stop buying their products (I'm sure the worry over this causes them many sleepless nights ), but until then I avoid it unless I have something totally positive to say. They make the rules there and it doesn't matter onewhit how I feel about it.

Stated better than I could have in my wildest dreams. I have been appalled at the general 1st Amendment suppression and lack of freedom of opinion, rabid, ferocious, blind ZT loyalty.

 

[cncpro11]

Stated better than I could have in my wildest dreams. I have been appalled at the general 1st Amendment suppression and lack of freedom of opinion, rabid, ferocious, blind ZT loyalty.

Well, as previously stated, KAI has every right to moderate as he or they deem appropriate.
I have noticed a double standard whereby the forum regulars seem to get away with dog piling and insulting anyone who doesn't conform, yet if someone decides to stick up for himself KAI is quick to intervene and warn them about civility before locking the thread.
All very unfortunate, but like KAI has suggested, best to just move along and take my dollars with me, and I have no problem with that.

 

[Kai Corp.]

...All very unfortunate...

There is a lot of unfortunate that has/is going on with BF's. A few currents off the top of my head are, Cold Steel's recent mod introduction, lot's of heavyweights within the industry that used to be regulars, and now don't participate, manufacturers that don't participate at all, the amount of misinformation that gets thrown out around here everyday yet is stated/taken as fact, the amount of unpaid members, the amount of guests that are not members, W&C actually being popular, the amount of daily reported posts, the amount of modding that is on this forum, this thread, etc.

We've left BF's in the past because we felt it difficult to round up negativity, attitude, and disrespect. After a few years we're here to try again, and yet again feel that threads were getting to where they were in the past. We didn't like it then, and don't like it now. Rules have been put into place to assist in creating a forum that takes all views but has an asterisk next to it. The asterisk refer back to the rules. If you feel that we've taken rules to a level that is too harsh, then we will look at that. If you feel that there is a lean to the regulars, and positive is all that welcome in the forum, OK, I get it. I'd counter that and say that you're not really reading/understanding what we're trying to convey, and not wanting to see our side of it. I think the forum will evolve with some time. Sometimes when you put new rules in place you have to enforce then strongly at first, and less over time. Flex from both sides goes a long way.

In the end if we have too much fallout due to the new rules not being popular, and there are lot's of brand attitudes like what we're reading here, then we will know that this is not the platform for us. Hopefully there is a happy place for us all here.

 

[Myker]

There is a lot of unfortunate that has/is going on with BF's. A few currents off the top of my head are, Cold Steel's recent mod introduction, lot's of heavyweights within the industry that used to be regulars, and now don't participate, manufacturers that don't participate at all, the amount of misinformation that gets thrown out around here everyday yet is stated/taken as fact, the amount of unpaid members, the amount of guests that are not members, W&C actually being popular, the amount of daily reported posts, the amount of modding that is on this forum, this thread, etc.

We've left BF's in the past because we felt it difficult to round up negativity, attitude, and disrespect. After a few years we're here to try again, and yet again feel that threads were getting to where they were in the past. We didn't like it then, and don't like it now. Rules have been put into place to assist in creating a forum that takes all views but has an asterisk next to it. The asterisk refer back to the rules. If you feel that we've taken rules to a level that is too harsh, then we will look at that. If you feel that there is a lean to the regulars, and positive is all that welcome in the forum, OK, I get it. I'd counter that and say that you're not really reading/understanding what we're trying to convey, and not wanting to see our side of it. I think the forum will evolve with some time. Sometimes when you put new rules in place you have to enforce then strongly at first, and less over time. Flex from both sides goes a long way.

In the end if we have too much fallout due to the new rules not being popular, and there are lot's of brand attitudes like what we're reading here, then we will know that this is not the platform for us. Hopefully there is a happy place for us all here.

 

[Kai Corp.]

Well ok then.

 

[Karda]

Look closely people. This is exactly what not to do. If one cannot come up with valid points or even constructive criticism. It is best not to post.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Stated better than I could have in my wildest dreams. I have been appalled at the general 1st Amendment suppression and lack of freedom of opinion, rabid, ferocious, blind ZT loyalty.

The First Amendment, in part, recognizes the right of the people to be free of interference by the government with freedom of speech. It therefore has zero relevance to how a private forum elects to police what is posted here.

There was nothing particularly "uncivil" about the closed thread. One post, out of dozens, expressed an unsupportable prejudice against KAI products. If that is the standard for "uncivil," understanding wil be hard to come by.

 

[bld522]

There is a lot of unfortunate that has/is going on with BF's. A few currents off the top of my head are . . . W&C actually being popular . . .

Thank you. It's about time somebody actually stood up and called W&C's popularity what it really is . . . UNFORTUNATE!

Yours is a scathing indictment of what's going on around here, KAI Corp. It's also the truth. For my part, I engage in threads until they lose their civility or their honesty and then I move on. As a mod, you don't have that luxury. For what it's worth, they couldn't pay me enough to do your job.

I'm not sure what keeps you hanging on. But whatever it is, I hope you don't get to the point of having to fold your tent and leave BFs. If that happens, nobody wins . . . except maybe the W&C'ers.

 

[Kai Corp.]

There was nothing particularly "uncivil" about the closed thread. One post, out of dozens, expressed an unsupportable prejudice against KAI products. If that is the standard for "uncivil," understanding wil be hard to come by.

If the subform and its rules are to be standardized as heavy handed based on a couple of locked threads out of the plethora of past ones, understanding will indeed be difficult.

 

[Allen R.]

They want respect, So what?? Kai Corp. could easily say the hell with the internet and close their subforum here, and if they are members of other forums there as well. Then people would just haft to deal with problems directly with the company , Also you would get no new updates on new products, you would just wait until they pop up on your favorite dealers website and then you would have it. It's kinda like the shiny foot prints sticky in the spyderco forums, they don't want their regulars blasting other brands, Well Kai doesn't want to be bashed unless you have tried to resolve the problem yourself , or through your dealer if the knife is new.(I'm guessing here). I'm not a Kershaw/Zt "fanboy", I just get tired of seeing people bash a company for some things that could be resolved over a 2 minute phone call. Ones who are also guilty are people who will blindly follow a company no matter what , If a person has a genuine problem and comes to a subforum for advice, and the person has contacted his dealer, or if the knife has been used he has contacted Kai. and his problem has still not been resolved, then that person has a right to voice his or her problem, without being bashed by the loyals, as long as it is done in a civil matter, but just like Kai said , a little negative post will take a civilized thread and turn it on it's head. So I don't blame them for closing threads at the first sign of arguments, It's their house and they don't want it in there. If you don't like it, be civil , or don't post.

 

[Karda]

Actually don't think W&C is part of the equation at all. It is but an obscure forum on the internet.
What is at the heart of the problem is that lack of morals and integrity, lack of understanding, incivility, discourtesy and greed have become the norm in society. It has become commonplace to be selfish, to blame others for poor choices.

 

[Allen R.]

Actually don't think W&C is part of the equation at all. It is but an obscure forum on the internet.
What is at the heart of the problem is that lack of morals and integrity, lack of understanding, incivility, discourtesy and greed have become the norm in society. It has become commonplace to be selfish, to blame others for poor choices.

Kind of what I was trying to say but with a lot less words.

 

[Karda]

Kind of what I was trying to say but with a lot less words.

A very wise friend once told me that I was too wordy and I could get my points across with less, I have continually tried to better myself. Now only if I could be half as eloquent as he always is, I might be something someday. :thumbup:

 

[bld522]

. . . lack of morals and integrity, lack of understanding, incivility, discourtesy and greed. . .

Sounds like a pretty good description of what goes on in W&C to me. And while W&C may be an obscure forum on the Internet, it's hardly an obscure forum on BFs. No, I'm afraid I'm going to have to side with KAI Corp on this one.

 

[Allen R.]

A very wise friend once told me that I was too wordy and I could get my points across with less, I have continually tried to better myself. Now only if I could be half as eloquent as he always is, I might be something someday. :thumbup:

Good advice, the job I do I literally sometimes haft to spell things out for people,like they are young children, I guess I've been doing it so long now at work that It has just became part of my personality...

 

[Karda]

Sounds like a pretty good description of what goes on in W&C to me. And while W&C may be an obscure forum on the Internet, it's hardly an obscure forum on BFs. No, I'm afraid I'm going to have to side with KAI Corp on this one.

Remember what I stated about poor choices?.......
Have you read the disclaimer plainly posted at the top of the forum?
Just as Kai pointed out about his own forum.... if you don't like it.....
A forum is just a forum, and is whatever the members make of it.
The moderators job is to mitigate problems and guide.