Threads being wrongly closed in the Kershaw/ZT forum

[midnight flyer]

Contacting a manufacturer about a problem before posting negativity in public is just plain common courtesy, something that is sorely lacking in todays society. All customers expect service with a smile yet fail to recognize that they should smile a bit too in regards to their interactions.
Consumers pay good money for product and expect to get what they pay for, sometimes their expectations do not meet reality.
Manufacturers have a lot more at stake regarding product, it is their livelihood, and a bit of respect and courtesy goes a long way.

Gotta say, couldn't agree with that more! I am a small business owner and have been for 30 years. All I want in the event that there is a disagreement is the opportunity to make it right. False expectations, unrealistic expectations, and plain misunderstanding are the plague of service and manufacturing companies. Then of course, there is the occasional "whoops... please tell me we didn't do that..."

That's the reason I don't participate on Angie's list. Consumers say what they want, regardless of reality or truth. You can be beat to death there for an issue that wasn't your fault. Same with the other social medias.

Personally, I have had issues with a few of knives I have bought and did exactly what you said. In one case, I had a problem with an AGR knife, and they had a new one in my hand in 4 days with a prepaid shipping label and and a padded envelope rolled up inside to return the other knife. So my post was.. "had a problem with my AGR medium jack folder, and I had a new one in four days".

Contacted another vendor with a folder problem and told me he would look at the knife, and decide who paid for shipping. In the end I paid to ship the knife back, but he paid to send out a new one, so I was out a few bucks on the shipping and it made right. We spoke on the phone (verfied BF vendor) and he told me he has so many orders now that he simply can't check every knife that goes out, but to make sure I contact him if I am unhappy. Good enough. Bought from him several times since.

I always look at my next perfect day or my next perfect piece of work as my first. I try to give others the benefit of that same experience.

Robert

 

[sticktodrum]

There has been a lot of talk about the first amendment and the right to free speech. I understand that those are not present here for obvious reasons but its clear that some mods are excessive in their closing, banning, and controlling of other members. Kai Corp is on a serious power trip and needs to be put back in line.

Once again to Kai: Please let us just talk freely about out hobby. People (like me) come to this forum to talk with others about the hobby we all love. If you step back and let things function naturally the forum will be a much more supportive, friendly, and interesting place to be.

So you assert that Kai Corp. has to be "put back in line" and then ask "Please let us..." You're a manly man, aren't ya?

You're the first one to complain about people ganging up on your nonsense posts but you now want people to talk freely? Sure, why not? If anyone has acted like a child, it's you. You only want things to be your way, and you'll cry and complain until that happens. You paint yourself to be the victim and in the same stroke you want to be the tough guy that's the heroic whistle-blower. It's all bunk.

Moreover, you try to rally support from other people because your nonsense doesn't stand up on its own. If other forums are so amazingly amazing, then why don't you spend more time there?

I feel like if I ever had a problem with a knife, I'd get a "no, it's fine, nothing to see here" in return.

That's probably one of the most ridiculous things I've read this week.

 

[Luis G.]

Personally I dislike KAI's sub forum, and the overall defensive and surprisingly hostile attitude (praise or get out) their staff has taken there. Other sub forums are much better handled by the best weapon of all against fantastical complaints, and unreasonable people: silence.

I've been personally attacked by one of their moderators, when my intention was clearly to help and even was clear some of the problems faced by ZT owners were inherent issues of using titanium, or steel . I seriously didn't have to bother wasting my time writing up a thread to stop the MANY threads that were being opened at the time (repeated threads). I was also very suspcisious of their lock-happy activity with legitimate feedback.
When moderators react to criticism with negativity (whether by asking them to leave the subforum, posting arguments, or locking threads), it only has one effect: more negativity.

I've been a moderator in some technology sites, never have I seen the stuff that I see in the KAI Forums even dare be attempted in those sites by the community or sub forum mods.

To be honest I don't really care for KAI Corp here or their subforum it so far has not impacted my decision to buy Kershaw or ZT (Mostly ZT) based on the things that matter: warranty service, repair options, and of course the product itself all of which have been good to excellent so far.

Lastly to statements saying W&C does not impact behaviors outside of W&C: I call bull to say the least. Plenty of people there who have 2 cents to give, and nothing but bad change in their pockets for the most part.

 

[bld522]

Contacting a manufacturer about a problem before posting negativity in public is just plain common courtesy.

Yes. And that's a policy I, for one, subscribe to. On the other hand, there's a school of thought that says a problem should be brought to the attention of BF membership right away so that others who have the same problem know they're not alone and/or to alert others to be on the lookout for a similar problem. In the first case (i.e., posting after advising the manufacturer and then only if the manufacturer doesn't resolve the problem to their satisfaction), people are being of service to the manufacturer. In the second (posting before advising the manufacturer and before resolution occurs), they feel they're being of service to the community. Which approach is correct has been an ongoing source of debate ever since I've been here.

 

[Cypress]

That's probably one of the most ridiculous things I've read this week.

It's quips like this that keep me away from there... My post was meant to be constructive (as stated).

If I'm in the wrong, why does everyone have the same complaint? Are we ALL wrong?

 

[1066vik]

Basically, heres how I see it. I am a member of numerous different forums, I enjoy shooting, dirt biking, mountain biking, snowboarding, ext. I have never been a member of a forum that supports this insane amount of regulation.

There has been a lot of talk about the first amendment and the right to free speech. I understand that those are not present here for obvious reasons but its clear that some mods are excessive in their closing, banning, and controlling of other members. Kai Corp is on a serious power trip and needs to be put back in line.

Once again to Kai: Please let us just talk freely about out hobby. People (like me) come to this forum to talk with others about the hobby we all love. If you step back and let things function naturally the forum will be a much more supportive, friendly, and interesting place to be.

In the case where you feel like a thread is going off topic: Ask yourself, why does it matter? When Im hanging out with my friends our conversations change from topic to topic naturally and freely. Other forums function just like that. A bunch of friends hanging out together chatting about their hobby. By regulating everything so tightly you put a bad vibe in the forum.

In the case where you feel like their are bad attitudes in a thread/forum. Simply send a PM to the member/members kindly asking them to stay friendly. Once again, that is exactly what other forums do.

Please consider this. Thanks.

Actually, they tried that route -- and it got out of hand. Bad enough I started hanging out in W&C instead of the Kershaw forum.
Now that the concepts of civility and rational discourse are being strongly encouraged, I'm back to looking at the forum for more than just the "new stuff" threads.
From what I've seen the past couple of days, they're not "banning" all criticism, they're regulating how it's presented. If you can maintain decorum and exchange information without starting a flame war, you're not likely to get shut down. If someone else throws a lit match and it appears that it's going to catch, they'll stomp on the fire before it gets out of hand. seems reasonable to me and less painful to some than if they were handing out chicklets to those who go badly off topic or toss out personal attacks.

 

[Karda]

Actually, they tried that route -- and it got out of hand. Bad enough I started hanging out in W&C instead of the Kershaw forum.
Now that the concepts of civility and rational discourse are being strongly encouraged, I'm back to looking at the forum for more than just the "new stuff" threads.
From what I've seen the past couple of days, they're not "banning" all criticism, they're regulating how it's presented. If you can maintain decorum and exchange information without starting a flame war, you're not likely to get shut down. If someone else throws a lit match and it appears that it's going to catch, they'll stomp on the fire before it gets out of hand. seems reasonable to me and less painful to some than if they were handing out chicklets to those who go badly off topic or toss out personal attacks.

Cha-Ching, the bell rings !!! Thank You, 1066vik.
It's called responsibility for your postings. Just as one is responsible for proper care of their cutlery.

 

[Kai Corp.]

We hope in the end the good outweighs the bad. We'll take what we've read here and try to find some balance so not leave a bad taste in too many folks mouth. What we do know is that no matter how hard you try, no matter how you mod, you won't please everyone. Heck, we lost a customer after giving a knife away to him once. Not sure how to deal with that. There are just too many personalities to try and juggle. I appreciate the input here. We're not perfect, and not perfect people. Hopefully folks can give us a break on occasion, we'll do the same..

Thanks everyone.

 

[Cypress]

Heck, we lost a customer after giving a knife away to him once. Not sure how to deal with that.

Oh lawd lol

Best of luck!

 

[Kai Corp.]

Oh lawd lol

Best of luck!

Better lucky than good I guess applies here. Thx.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

We hope in the end the good outweighs the bad. We'll take what we've read here and try to find some balance so not leave a bad taste in too many folks mouth. What we do know is that no matter how hard you try, no matter how you mod, you won't please everyone. Heck, we lost a customer after giving a knife away to him once. Not sure how to deal with that. There are just too many personalities to try and juggle. I appreciate the input here. We're not perfect, and not perfect people. Hopefully folks can give us a break on occasion, we'll do the same..

Thanks everyone.

I can sincerely appreciate that and, for what it's worth, the reputation you've built and continue to build outweighs any issues I have with your style of moderation. You've gotta do what works for your business and for the majority of your forum members. It may leave a bad taste in my mouth, but I get it.

 

[Kai Corp.]

I can sincerely appreciate that and, for what it's worth, the reputation you've built and continue to build outweighs any issues I have with your style of moderation. You've gotta do what works for your business and for the majority of your forum members. It may leave a bad taste in my mouth, but I get it.

Appreciate.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

This thread is in Tech Support, which is a good place to discuss how to run Bladeforums.

In a discussion forum like General Knife Discussion or the Kershaw/ZT forum, one simple rule behavior can avoid many of the problems we are talking about here.

Simply put, do not personalize. Do not single out another member for criticism. Discuss the knives, not each other.

* ****** **** ****** *

As for notifying the company before posting, it's a similar question. Let them see the knife, fix the knife, replace the knife, then come here and say you got a bad knife and such-and-such was the problem -- but don't panic! the manufacturer made it right and bounced it right back all cleaned up with an apology.

Other members can join in with their problems asking if you think it's in tolerance or should they send it in, too. Do you think a moderator will lock that thread? Not a chance. That's what the forum is for, how to interact with the company -- professionally, not emotionally.

 

[cncpro11]

So you assert that Kai Corp. has to be "put back in line" and then ask "Please let us..." You're a manly man, aren't ya?

You're the first one to complain about people ganging up on your nonsense posts but you now want people to talk freely? Sure, why not? If anyone has acted like a child, it's you. You only want things to be your way, and you'll cry and complain until that happens. You paint yourself to be the victim and in the same stroke you want to be the tough guy that's the heroic whistle-blower. It's all bunk.

Moreover, you try to rally support from other people because your nonsense doesn't stand up on its own. If other forums are so amazingly amazing, then why don't you spend more time there?





That's probably one of the most ridiculous things I've read this week.

This is the exact sort of personal attack by a forum regular that gets a pass, but if the target of this post were to stand up for himself, he would more than likely get smacked down by the mod and locked.

Edit: I applaud KAI for posting the question in their sub forum "are ZT's overpriced".
The very first post in response to the question is a bash against Emerson, and then a few posts later, someone else bashes Benchmade.
So much negativity by the forum regulars in a post started by the mod?

 

[Kai Corp.]

IMO, a lot of the regulars have been through and have experienced the past on the Kershaw/ZT forum. They went through the pain of the forum closing and all that went into getting to that point. They are vested in the brands. They're passionate. On occasion perhaps too much, and maybe that is a little reflection of the Modding from the past and the current. I'm sure we will all find our place with the new rules and Mod in place. You'll notice that the Mod was quick to +1 Emerson in that thread cncpro11.

There can be over sensitive feelers on both sides. One on how the regulars handle the negative, and two, how the non-regulars view the those that are on the forum daily. I know we appreciate them answering questions, reminding newer members of the new rules. Sure they get a little strong worded on occasion, it happens with all of us. I'll favor that over the opposite, and most would as well if the put themselves in manufacturers shoes.

I believe it will all work itself out in little time, and Order of Kai (little pun there) will sync to a place where everyone can participate, and we the brand can live and be comfortable with it.

 

[bld522]

As for notifying the company before posting, it's a similar question. Let them see the knife, fix the knife, replace the knife, then come here and say you got a bad knife and such-and-such was the problem -- but don't panic! the manufacturer made it right and bounced it right back all cleaned up with an apology.

Other members can join in with their problems asking if you think it's in tolerance or should they send it in, too. Do you think a moderator will lock that thread? Not a chance. That's what the forum is for, how to interact with the company --professionally, not emotionally.

Yes, that's absolutely the best way to handle it. But it may take more maturity and patience to keep the problem under wraps long enough for the solution to be applied than is reasonable to expect. In fact, I can't remember ever seeing a single post that followed the example you laid out. Folks usually state the problem first and wait for the solution to develop rather than wait for the solution to develop and then state the problem.

 

[RamZar]

May be a little late but last night I saw something relevant to the heated rhetoric used in some of the ZT/KAI threads.

I'd like to quote from a long 10-hour miniseries I'm watching called "Titanic: Blood & Steel". It starts in the shipyards of Belfast at the start of the shipbuilding in 1909 and there were a lot of labor-management disputes. One of the managers did not object to the workers becoming union members and he told the union organizer:

I welcome dialog, as long as it remains cordial, constructive and is conducted in a civilized manner.

I think it's perfectly applicable here a century later.

 

[leatherman]

I think I just found the mantra for all the forums I own and moderate.

Yes, I've run them this way from day one, but to have it in a quote is priceless.