Threads being wrongly closed in the Kershaw/ZT forum

[Allen R.]

thread started.......... good discussion...........good discussion.............good discussion..........What a rabbit???Where???? chase that thing...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................OK I'm back, What were we talking about again?

 

[Scurvy092]

Hmmm, some very interesting stuff from the OPs past:

He has had threads closed in other subforums for 'not being impressed with their quality.

He says in his 0560 thread that he just received the knife but he made another thread about a 0560 in January.

It appears he is a big trader so it is very unlikely that he purchased it to begin with and it's possible that someone deliberately traded him a lemon.

Just some interesting things I noticed as the OP tries to play innocent victim being unfairly persecuted for just asking a question.

And while Thomas did an admirable job of breaking down the thread in question, let's not forget that the title of the thread was 'Not impressed with the quality of my ZT0560' which to me immediately couches the thread as negative and not just trying to foster discussion.

 

[bld522]

Remember what I stated about poor choices?.......
Have you read the disclaimer plainly posted at the top of the forum?
Just as Kai pointed out about his own forum.... if you don't like it.....
A forum is just a forum, and is whatever the members make of it.
The moderators job is to mitigate problems and guide.

Yes, I'm familiar with the disclaimer posted at the top of the W&C forum. And I'm DEFINITELY not looking to get into with you. In the final analysis, whatever you say works for me!

 

[connorr93]

Basically, heres how I see it. I am a member of numerous different forums, I enjoy shooting, dirt biking, mountain biking, snowboarding, ext. I have never been a member of a forum that supports this insane amount of regulation.

There has been a lot of talk about the first amendment and the right to free speech. I understand that those are not present here for obvious reasons but its clear that some mods are excessive in their closing, banning, and controlling of other members. Kai Corp is on a serious power trip and needs to be put back in line.

Once again to Kai: Please let us just talk freely about out hobby. People (like me) come to this forum to talk with others about the hobby we all love. If you step back and let things function naturally the forum will be a much more supportive, friendly, and interesting place to be.

In the case where you feel like a thread is going off topic: Ask yourself, why does it matter? When Im hanging out with my friends our conversations change from topic to topic naturally and freely. Other forums function just like that. A bunch of friends hanging out together chatting about their hobby. By regulating everything so tightly you put a bad vibe in the forum.

In the case where you feel like their are bad attitudes in a thread/forum. Simply send a PM to the member/members kindly asking them to stay friendly. Once again, that is exactly what other forums do.

Please consider this. Thanks.

 

[Allen R.]

Hmmm, some very interesting stuff from the OPs past:

He has had threads closed in other subforums for 'not being impressed with their quality.

He says in his 0560 thread that he just received the knife but he made another thread about a 0560 in January.

It appears he is a big trader so it is very unlikely that he purchased it to begin with and it's possible that someone deliberately traded him a lemon.

Just some interesting things I noticed as the OP tries to play innocent victim being unfairly persecuted for just asking a question.

And while Thomas did an admirable job of breaking down the thread in question, let's not forget that the title of the thread was 'Not impressed with the quality of my ZT0560' which to me immediately couches the thread as negative and not just trying to foster discussion.

Not taking side here, but when I got my first 560 I loved it, I did It was when they first came out, and It was the bees knees IMO, but as time went by and the new knife feeling wore off, I just couldn't warm up to the design, So I too have posted a postive thread about a certain knife, even tried several to make sure I didn't get a lemon , and I just couldn't warm up to the design. Does that make the knife bad ? NO Am I a liar for loving my new knife , and then after the "new knife feeling" wore off , I decided I really didn't care for the design? NO, I didn't read the thread you brought up, So I dunno what went on in there or how it was dealt with, I'm just saying I'm guilty of posting a OMG I love my new knife thread, then a few weeks later, posting well I'm not to happy with my latest purchase, None of which were KAI's Fault it was all personal preference and I decided I didn't really like a knife as much as I thought I did to begin with , Again no manufacturing flaws just personal preference....

 

[Scurvy092]

Basically, heres how I see it. I am a member of numerous different forums, I enjoy shooting, dirt biking, mountain biking, snowboarding, ext. I have never been a member of a forum that supports this insane amount of regulation.

There has been a lot of talk about the first amendment and the right to free speech. I understand that those are not present here for obvious reasons but its clear that some mods are excessive in their closing, banning, and controlling of other members. Kai Corp is on a serious power trip and needs to be put back in line.

Once again to Kai: Please let us just talk freely about out hobby. People (like me) come to this forum to talk with others about the hobby we all love. If you step back and let things function naturally the forum will be a much more supportive, friendly, and interesting place to be.

In the case where you feel like a thread is going off topic: Ask yourself, why does it matter? When Im hanging out with my friends our conversations change from topic to topic naturally and freely. Other forums function just like that. A bunch of friends hanging out together chatting about their hobby. By regulating everything so tightly you put a bad vibe in the forum.

In the case where you feel like their are bad attitudes in a thread/forum. Simply send a PM to the member/members kindly asking them to stay friendly. Once again, that is exactly what other forums do.

Please consider this. Thanks.

Why should KAI continue to PAY good money to let people sit around bitching and moaning?

As stated several times over, the subforums are not just free and open forums for people to talk about whatever. They are sponsored by the manufacturer to help display their wares and disseminate info on their products.

What do you think would happen if you walked into a BMW showroom and started telling people looking at cars that you aren't impressed with BMWs quality?

 

[Scurvy092]

Not taking side here, but when I got my first 560 I loved it, I did It was when they first came out, and It was the bees knees IMO, but as time went by and the new knife feeling wore off, I just couldn't warm up to the design, So I too have posted a postive thread about a certain knife, even tried several to make sure I didn't get a lemon , and I just couldn't warm up to the design. Does that make the knife bad ? NO Am I a liar for loving my new knife , and then after the "new knife feeling" wore off , I decided I really didn't care for the design? NO, I didn't read the thread you brought up, So I dunno what went on in there or how it was dealt with, I'm just saying I'm guilty of posting a OMG I love my new knife thread, then a few weeks later, posting well I'm not to happy with my latest purchase, None of which were KAI's Fault it was all personal preference and I decided I didn't really like a knife as much as I thought I did to begin with , Again no manufacturing flaws just personal preference....

All that is understandable but that's not quite what happened. In January, the OP started a thread about how his 0560 has flex in the lockbar. It was a cordial thread where he was just asking a question and several people told him to send it in. He never followed up.

Seven months later, he starts a new thread about how he JUST RECEIVED a 0560 and how unimpressed he was with the quality.

They don't line up at all.

 

[bravodelta]

KAI should then make this a "read only" forum where the can post their new wares without any feedback from their largest enthusiast base. Only KAI Corp members can start and post threads.

 

[Karda]

Basically, heres how I see it. I am a member of numerous different forums, I enjoy shooting, dirt biking, mountain biking, snowboarding, ext. I have never been a member of a forum that supports this insane amount of regulation.

We're actually quite a bit more lenient than a lot of other forums. You seem to be generalizing based on your short experience with a particular forum.

There has been a lot of talk about the first amendment and the right to free speech. I understand that those are not present here for obvious reasons but its clear that some mods are excessive in their closing, banning, and controlling of other members. Kai Corp is on a serious power trip and needs to be put back in line.

Some may agree with you, others will feel that posters and their sense of entitlement are what needs to be put "in Line".
Funny how most of the positive comes from those whom support this forum by membership and most of the negative come from those whom don't, quite telling isn't it?

Once again to Kai: Please let us just talk freely about out hobby. People (like me) come to this forum to talk with others about the hobby we all love. If you step back and let things function naturally the forum will be a much more supportive, friendly, and interesting place to be.

In the case where you feel like a thread is going off topic: Ask yourself, why does it matter? When Im hanging out with my friends our conversations change from topic to topic naturally and freely. Other forums function just like that. A bunch of friends hanging out together chatting about their hobby. By regulating everything so tightly you put a bad vibe in the forum.

As I stated before, it's not the moderator who puts a bad vibe in the forum. The members make the vibe by their posting. If they post thoughtlessly, carelessly and create a bad vibe and get called on it, it is not the moderators fault. Remember what I said about choices and blaming others?

In the case where you feel like their are bad attitudes in a thread/forum. Simply send a PM to the member/members kindly asking them to stay friendly. Once again, that is exactly what other forums do.

Please consider this. Thanks.

Moderators are not here to coddle. Members are expected to read the rules for each forum and post appropriately, or not post at all.

 

[CJZ]

Can't we all just get along?
Christ, 50% of all members here on BF act like children.

Save the fighting for W&C, eh?

 

[connorr93]

All that is understandable but that's not quite what happened. In January, the OP started a thread about how his 0560 has flex in the lockbar. It was a cordial thread where he was just asking a question and several people told him to send it in. He never followed up.

Seven months later, he starts a new thread about how he JUST RECEIVED a 0560 and how unimpressed he was with the quality.

They don't line up at all.

Ok, we have a sherlock here. I received the knife brand new in a trade. Opened and inspected it then put it away until a few days ago. I said just received it so It wouldn't cause any confusion and so I wouldn't have to explain what Im explaining right now.

 

[connorr93]

We're actually quite a bit more lenient than a lot of other forums. You seem to be generalizing based on your short experience with a particular forum.



Some may agree with you, others will feel that posters and their sense of entitlement are what needs to be put "in Line".
Funny how most of the positive comes from those whom support this forum by membership and most of the negative come from those whom don't, quite telling isn't it?



As I stated before, it's not the moderator who puts a bad vibe in the forum. The members make the vibe by their posting. If they post thoughtlessly, carelessly and create a bad vibe and get called on it, it is not the moderators fault. Remember what I said about choices and blaming others?



Moderators are not here to coddle. Members are expected to read the rules for each forum and post appropriately, or not post at all.

Ok so apparently this is just how things are going to run and their aren't going to be any changes. Im over this topic. Feel free to close this one down...

 

[Allen R.]

Can't we all just get along?
Christ, 50% of all members here on BF act like children.

Save the fighting for W&C, eh?

:thumbup: 10 10 80 rule 10% of the population are gonna hate you for no reason 10% are gonna love you for no reason and the other 80% doesn't give a crap. I could understand if we were all knife makers and this was our lively hood and someone was bashing us and killing our income, but It's our freaking hobby, no need for all this mess. OP CHILL OUT , That shark with a Kukri in it's mouth can make you go bye bye forever....You said your on different forums, Well so am I same screen name, and BF is by far the most layed back one of them all, a certain forum will ban for ANYTHING I mean ANYTHING....again Chill out, BF is a very cool place , and I hate to see anyone get banned especially a fellow knife nut...

 

[Karda]

Why should KAI continue to PAY good money to let people sit around bitching and moaning?

No manufacturer pays any monetary compensation to the owner for a forum here. It is provided as a service to the hobby and industry at Sparks expense. The only thing required is that they provide the moderation of their forum. They are allowed to moderate as they see fit for their company, save deletion.

Please watch your language.

 

[Karda]

Ok so apparently this is just how things are going to run and their aren't going to be any changes. Im over this topic. Feel free to close this one down...

There will or will not be changes as the owner of the forum see's fit or the moderators of the manufacturers forum decide.
If you wish for change, i'd suggest you change your tactic from one of animosity to constructive.

If and when it is felt that the topic needs closure by the designated forum moderators...... You made the choice to start this thread, you can bear with that choice as far as i'm concerned. Funny how you now wish for closure.....

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Registered Users don't have PM addresses. The only way even a moderator can send a PM to a Registered User is by warning or infraction.

Kai Corp is actually using a better method. Instead of poking an individual for a mistake no one knows about, he let everyone know where the lines were. Now it is up to each individual to moderate his own tone and behavior.

 

[Scurvy092]

Ok, we have a sherlock here. I received the knife brand new in a trade. Opened and inspected it then put it away until a few days ago. I said just received it so It wouldn't cause any confusion and so I wouldn't have to explain what Im explaining right now.

A) The person who sent it to you claimed it was brand new, you have no way of proving that. Especially with a edge profile way off (resharpened?) and a worn ZT logo (from pocket time?). How do you know the lock rock isn't from them spine whacking it?

B) You had several members telling you to contact the seller for an exchange. That's not really possible, is it?

C) So now that only concerns left are the g10 fittment to the liner (which is a design feature so the blade stops don't smack into the G10) and the machining issues.

That kind of completely changes the dynamic of the thread. Didn't the person who traded it to you send you pictures? Shouldn't you have been able to see some of the issues straight away in the pictures?

Did you actually purchase the Sebenza like you said you did in the thread or did you trade for it?

I'm just saying that things like that cause you to come across as disingenuous because it shows you have a tendency to misrepresent things as fact...


PS. I think it would be some hilarious irony if the ZT warranty people came back to you and said, 'After inspecting your knife, this is not brand new in box, it has been abused thoroughly and we cannot honor the warranty on this knife.'

 

[midnight flyer]

First, I think the mods in some of the areas of this forum have an impossible job. Riding herd on 10,000 experts can't be easy.

And as for the OP, remember, there are other ponds to play in. What does anyone thing will be in the Kershaw forum but fans of the blades and manufacturer? I am a huge Kershaw fan and have some of their great knives like JYD II combo, Tyrade G10, Shallot in S110V, all the way down to the DWO and a 30 year old Whiskey Gap. Been a real fan of their products for decades. I bought 4 Crowns to give away at Christmas and just bought a Tremor for a beater work knife. Liked the Tremor so much I bought two more just to keep aside for later use!

But I stay out of the Kershaw forum completely.

This really sums it up:

Members should bear in mind that a manufacturer having a forum here does not give members license to act how they please.
It does not give them any rights to post negativity before contacting that manufacturers customer service in response to their particular problem. It also does not give members the right to post whatever or however they please in the manufacturers forum.

This should be a strong indicator to the OP the exact nature of the sub forum, and he should keep in mind that BF is actually a private enterprise. Here's the take away from Karda's post, and I think he expressed it clearly:

1) you don't get to act as you please. That's fair, as there are those that always test the rules of decorum, so the moderators have to set and enforce the guidelines. Their governing rules are the rules of the forum. Heavy lies the crown when one foot is in each camp, the manufacturer (and in some cases your employer) and the public. Where would your loyalties lie? The moderators run the forums as they see fit

2) this one I didn't know. You should contact the manufacturer before expressing a "negativity" about a product. I am guessing too, that you should also have the reply on hand before posting anything that rubs against the grain as without written proof it could be a violation. I haven't seen that anywhere else on BF, but usually see "hey, I don't like the way the scales fit on my knife (or the knife closes poorly, etc.) and I am a little disappointed" threads. On comes the flood of folks that express the fact that those imperfections don't bother them, but most encourage the poster to contact customer service. Most folks don't know you are to contact customer service before posting here

3) I think the last thing would be to consider which way the wind blows in the Kershaw forum. I am reminded of what my Mother used to tell me. "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." Connor93, you should read that forum and get the posting rhythms of how the threads go, the general tone of the forum and its type of conversation. I think that reading that forum and its archives for a couple of weeks would tell you all you need to know about the tone of the forum and its members. My Mom's advice from almost 60 years ago might help you a lot!

There are lots of great guys on all the sub forums and I have had just as much fun corresponding off the forum as I have on. Take a look at some of the threads... hundreds of people read them, but if it is a potentially controversial or combative issue, they don't post. Smart.

I saw some great advice given by a mod a few years ago on BF by a moderator to a formite, and I agree. If you don't like what you see, don't come back! Pretty easy to understand. It was the exact situation you are having now Connor, so maybe the same advice would be as good today as it was for that other guy (no, not me!) a few years ago.

I would say though, don't give up on Kershaw products. Sure, not every knife is their very best effort. But I can tell you they have excellent customer service and they make great knives at great prices. ALL but one of my work knives (construction guy) are Kershaw, and they not only take a heckuva useful beating, but they do it for years.

Robert

 

[Karda]

Contacting a manufacturer about a problem before posting negativity in public is just plain common courtesy, something that is sorely lacking in todays society. All customers expect service with a smile yet fail to recognize that they should smile a bit too in regards to their interactions.
Consumers pay good money for product and expect to get what they pay for, sometimes their expectations do not meet reality.
Manufacturers have a lot more at stake regarding product, it is their livelihood, and a bit of respect and courtesy goes a long way.

 

[Cypress]

I haven't read this thread all the way through, but I have read most of KAI's responses.

My criticism is only meant to be constructive:

Every time I see KAI respond to someone's gripe, it comes across as a little short. When Benchmade responds to criticisms in their forum, you can tell that whoever is behind the keyboard is speaking for the whole company, and they will do what they can to remedy the issue (even if it's the canned response of "We'll be happy to look at it for you, please contact our customer service department for instructions."). When KAI responds, the tone is dry, somewhat uncaring, and doesn't seem to represent a company, but rather one guy with opinions.

I avoid the Kershaw forum for two reasons: The unsupportive nature of KAI's attitude towards questions (which almost always causes issues that I don't have time to read through), and the fact that I don't plan on owning a Kershaw/ZT. Truthfully, one of the (many) reasons I don't plan on owning one, stems from the attitude presented by KAI. I feel like if I ever had a problem with a knife, I'd get a "no, it's fine, nothing to see here" in return. That's probably not realistic, but KAI's attitude is the only representation I see coming from Kershaw.

Basically, KAI allows themselves to get pulled into petty arguments on an Internet forum. Unfortunately, that cheapens the image of the company for me, and generally creates an unhealthy situation on the forums/Internet. Maybe KAI isn't the right person to be handling the traffic here... I don't know. I try not to tell others how to handle their businesses.

Money talks; if you don't like the company, don't buy their stuff.