Time to get a gun? Time to get advice.

dartfrogger said:
I live in a very nice, safe neighborhood with little crime. But this afternoon some creep knocked on my neighbor's door and mumbled something about did my neighbor want him to do odd jobs for him. My neighbor is smart and knew something was up...perhaps it was that the guy was wearing a hoodie in 90 degree weather, or perhaps it was the butt of a gun sticking out his waistband. Neighbor also had a gun, and when he showed it to the creep and suggested he leave right away, the would-be robber (or worse) did just that. Police came, but I don't know the outcome.

Anyway, I've never had a gun, never even fired one unless you count the shooting arcade at Disneyland, and that was 40 years ago. But I've been thinking. I certainly don't want to shoot anybody, nor do I want somebody to grab my gun and shoot me, or shoot me because I pull out my gun. But just letting the bad guy know you have one seems a possible deterrent.

Any suggestions on an inexpensive handgun? Remember, I know absolutely nothing about guns. Any recommendations on reading up on the subject of "self defense?" Is getting a gun as bad an idea as I've thought it is my entire life?

There is a shooting range not far away, and they offer lessons. Not cheap, though, and I don't know if I want to ask them for advice on a weapon. They sell guns, but I thought I'd ask you guys first.

I somehow don't think my RC-3 is going to do much to help me if such a situation happens to me.

Thanks for your advice.

Dennis
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You sound like a nice guy. You sound like you've never been in a fight before or studied any martial art. A gun is your best option then, as it is easy to learn how to use effectively. HOWEVER, you MUST, I repeat MUST get some training through an NRA approved hunter's education course. There is no excuse for not learning how to use the tools you own including tools of self defense.

Your first and best tool of self defense is your own human brain. That's why William Wallace's Father said "it's our wits that make us men" and later his Uncle Argyle said "First learn to use this (taps willams noggin) then I'll teach ya to use this" (swings sword up with a panty wetting SHING!). Not getting into compromising situations means using your head to stay out of them, that is, if some strange dude knocks on your door you maybe don't open the door, maybe don't even answer it....Who knows....

Cheap guns....Cheap tools....I don't skimp on either. However, with todays firearms technology, and with as much as you're likely to use it, cheap might work for you. A shotgun is a cheap option and if it's a pump gun there is little, if anything, more intimidating to a would be criminal than the sound of the action being worked. He knows there's a world O hurt waitin for him if he sticks around. But, it's a little unwieldy to answer the door with, and if you leave it tucked behind, or next to the door, you may lose the initiative if weird dude decides you LOOK like a victim to him. Answering the door with a magazine in hand hiding the handgun ALSO in your hand is both NOT intimidating to the (hopefully) innocent job seeker, but also right there IN your hand if he decides you LOOK like a victim to him. Off hand out to keep him at arms length while you plug a few hollow point darts into his guts. This too you might want to practice under the watchful eye of an instructor AFTER you've taken and mastered your basic firearms skills.

I prefer the large caliber slow moving darts myself, .40, .44, .45 .

First firearms skill; Treat all firearms as if they are loaded.
Second; Learn how to properly UNload that is, make safe, AT LEAST that firearm you choose to buy.
Third learn how to load it and NOT point it at anything you don't want to shoot, like your instructor, keeping your finger OFF the trigger till you're ready to shoot. (that is safe handling of a loaded firearm)
Yada, yada, yada...

Very few people in this world actually WANT to shoot anyone. Fortunatly they are few and far between, but you must be prepared to do so if the safety of you or your family is threatened. This is probably the most important thing to consider when thinking about pruchasing a firearm for the express purpose of home defense. If you think you could NOT kill someone in order to keep your family safe you might not want to buy a gun. There are some people like that but, for real, that's how you must look at this; Can I KILL someone to protect my family? Cause shooting to wound is only for the movies.....
 
I agree an NRA course is important you need to do that. As far as a handgun, I would recommend, a used Smith & Wesson revolver probably in .357 Magnum with a four inch barrel. However, for home defense I would probably load it with .38 Special ammo because it wont go through the wall and into the next house. Why a .357 because you have two choices ammo if you go that way. S&W Revolvers are easy to load, easy to maintain, and they keep their value. I would probably go with a Model 13 or 19 in stainless they are the Mod 65 and 66. I prefer the Mod 13/65. Its old school but very durable and functional.
 
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.... i wouldnt recommend any thing till you have a good battery of classes behind you... or a ccw course a decent one... train like you fight , cause you will fight like you train... and frankly until you get proper exposure and trigger time you wont know what direction to go in..... also most ccw course will give you a good out line of your local laws and choices in protection so that you are a ok. and the cost is relively cheap for the peice of mind that can be attained....
 
ttoney83 said:
Very few people in this world actually WANT to shoot anyone.
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Very few normal, law abiding people, anyway.

I'm a cop (20 years) and I still don't know if I can pull the trigger on someone. My hopes...

  • That I never need to find out.
  • That I can pull the trigger if necessary.
  • That you never need to find out.
  • That you can pull the trigger if necessary.
 
Lots of good advice here that can be summed up as follows:

- try as many different guns as you can and find out what suits you
- get proper training with your weapon of choice and practice, practice, practice
- if it's an option where you are, get your concealed carry permit
- get into a SD mindset - be ready to take someone's life if you feel yours or those of your loved ones are in grave danger
- situational awareness along with the aforementioned mindset is everything
- have your weapon handy at all times, not just when you think you might need it

This last point is where my head is at these days. Criminals and just generally bad/disturbed people (jilted lovers, angry ex-employees, etc.) seem to be much more prevalent and the criminals seem to be getting more creative. Take for example the creep who approached your neighbor - a face to face encounter (during daylight hours?) where he tried to distract your neighbor with simple conversation, get him off guard and then do who knows what to him. A shotgun next your bed or a pistol sitting on your night stand is not going to help you in that situation. Sure either works wonderfully for that bump in the night situation, but you have to take into consideration criminals like this guy who are not going "by the book" so to speak. Sounds to me like this guy's plan was to pull his pistol, possibly tie up the home owner, call his buddies who were probably very close by and then steal everything in the house. But who really knows because at the first hint of a possible fight, he took off.

Anyway, my point is, for home defense, I have heard alot of votes for a shotty, which is an awesome weapon with the right loads and minimal training, but you can't easily stick it in your waistband and answer the door with it. You mentioned you are on a budget so buying three (one for the bedroom, one for the front hall closet and one for the kitchen/family room) is probably out of the question. But, getting a good handgun (my recommendation would be a revolver to start) in a service caliber (.38/.357 or .44 spcl for a revolver, 9mm, .40 S&W, .357 Sig or .45 ACP for a pistol) and a good concealed carry rig and WEARING that weapon during your waking hours is the way to go. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I have had my carry permit for over 15 years and not until recently have I started actually wearing my Glock around the house. I always figured bad things would only happen outside of the house or in the middle of the night and both situations my Glock would be within reach. But, lately I'm hearing of more and more incidences like the one you described and I just feel much more comfortable having it on me so I can defend my wife, daughter and myself if someone were to break in during the day or early evening hours.

Anyway, good luck with your search and let us know how it goes.
 
a few notes on shotgun loads. There are a variety of options. First off to mention, drywall, and even plaster walls, will not stop any shotgun load I've seen. While it's true most shotgun loads will penetrate less than rifle or handguns, they certainly will pass through walls with deadly force.

Birdshot was mentioned above. It's a large amount of small BB's. Personally I would avoid it as a self defense round. It makes a mess over a wide area, but has little stopping power, and is less likely to provide a quick, clean kill. This has the downside of pissing off whoever your shooting, and allowing the possibility that you or someone else gets shot. Also, if you're going to shoot someone, you shoot to kill them. Dead bad guys can't testify in court and make up BS.

Slugs are a single large bullet. They also come in a variety of shapes, types and sizes. The upside is they carry a tremendous amount of energy. The downside is that being a single projectile, aim is much more important, as the window of destruction is small. Another downside is slugs are very likely to carry deadly force through a wall or three. Many people dislike them as a home defense round for these reasons. Personally, I load Remington Accutip Sabot Slugs. Many would question that choice. I've seen what they do to deer, and I like it.

Buckshot is like birdshot, but with much larger pellets, between 8 and 12 per shell. They spread out when fired, giving you a wider area of destruction. Probably one of the most popular loads. There are also a variety of 'tactical loads' available. Most of these are designed with lower power, for less kick, and less penetration through walls. rest assured however, there will be enough power to take whatever is in front of you down.

Also, if you decide handgun or shotgun, don't fret over longer barrels for accuracy. At the distances you're likely to use it, any shot center mass is going to take the person down.
 
IMHO the last thing you want to do is buy a cheap gun, hopefuly you will never ever need it, but in the event that some criminal is trying to do you and your family bodily harm, the last thing you want is for that thing to jam. Nope you'll be saying that was the best 500 bucks I ever spent. There are numerous good firearms available, though the glock is proven worldwide for reliability with more rounds than you could ever put through one AND it is probably the simplest auto to use, (notice I said auto not revolver)
-the absolute simplest is a revolver (you give up a lot of rounds)
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
You have been wrong your entire life.



If the presence of a gun deters a bad guy, that is fine and dandy. But the way you put it, it sounds like you would be counting on that, and be hesitant to use it if you need to. A change in mindset is necessary.
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I got the same idea from how this was typed.
 
Oh, and don't get sucked into buying a bunch of tactical additons and/or a tactical shotgun. All shottys go 'click - bang' which is all you need it to do. You're not storming the castle, you don't need nine rounds in the gun, 4 in the stock, 7 more sidesaddle, and 12 on the sling. If you can't kill someone with 5 rounds of double-ought buckshot, you're doing it wrong/you're in over your head/it's a zombie!/you should be running.
 
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Lot's of great advice so far. I would recommend a revolver first and shotgun second. Especially if your state has not infringed on your right to carry. A revolver does better in your glove box than a shotgun :). I would also recommend taking the course and getting a concealed carry license if possible.
 
we've been having this same discussion in our house for a week now! the mr has his aresenal on his side of the bed but i'm much smaller then he so I've been looking for my own gun. we've been looking at stores and i'm not settling on something until I get to shoot something similiar (although i'm leaning towards one thing in particular, Thanks ttd;)). i COULD use the mr's in an emergency but would rather have my own that I'm familiar with.

the things i worry about the most if i have to shoot someone is the guilt i'll feel after i do so. even IF they're a douche bag and threatening my family. And I worry about the kids having to see/hear the whole situation play out.
 
Billy516 said:
Lots of good advice here that can be summed up as follows:

- try as many different guns as you can and find out what suits you
- get proper training with your weapon of choice and practice, practice, practice
- if it's an option where you are, get your concealed carry permit
- get into a SD mindset - be ready to take someone's life if you feel yours or those of your loved ones are in grave danger
- situational awareness along with the aforementioned mindset is everything
- have your weapon handy at all times, not just when you think you might need it

This last point is where my head is at these days. Criminals and just generally bad/disturbed people (jilted lovers, angry ex-employees, etc.) seem to be much more prevalent and the criminals seem to be getting more creative. Take for example the creep who approached your neighbor - a face to face encounter (during daylight hours?) where he tried to distract your neighbor with simple conversation, get him off guard and then do who knows what to him. A shotgun next your bed or a pistol sitting on your night stand is not going to help you in that situation. Sure either works wonderfully for that bump in the night situation, but you have to take into consideration criminals like this guy who are not going "by the book" so to speak. Sounds to me like this guy's plan was to pull his pistol, possibly tie up the home owner, call his buddies who were probably very close by and then steal everything in the house. But who really knows because at the first hint of a possible fight, he took off.

Anyway, my point is, for home defense, I have heard alot of votes for a shotty, which is an awesome weapon with the right loads and minimal training, but you can't easily stick it in your waistband and answer the door with it. You mentioned you are on a budget so buying three (one for the bedroom, one for the front hall closet and one for the kitchen/family room) is probably out of the question. But, getting a good handgun (my recommendation would be a revolver to start) in a service caliber (.38/.357 or .44 spcl for a revolver, 9mm, .40 S&W, .357 Sig or .45 ACP for a pistol) and a good concealed carry rig and WEARING that weapon during your waking hours is the way to go. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I have had my carry permit for over 15 years and not until recently have I started actually wearing my Glock around the house. I always figured bad things would only happen outside of the house or in the middle of the night and both situations my Glock would be within reach. But, lately I'm hearing of more and more incidences like the one you described and I just feel much more comfortable having it on me so I can defend my wife, daughter and myself if someone were to break in during the day or early evening hours.

Anyway, good luck with your search and let us know how it goes.
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all good points but for those of us who have children in a home you just cant carry or keep a firearm handy ,my son knows not to touch or play with a gun unless told by me to do other wise each family house hold is different
 
Hopefully you'll never have to, but always good to be ready. As soon as I get past the paperwork, i need to pick a handgun option myself. Also trying to repress the urdge to grab an ar 15.
 
texastonydobbs said:
Take a firearm class , on firearms I suggest a Revolver or Shotgun.
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+1 on this. Usually for a person with little experience I will recommend a Revolver as it's easier to use and less can go wrong with it. I like the Ruger SP101 in .357.

For home defense you cannot go wrong with a Shotgun. The look of the shotgun combined with the sound of chambering a round the Shotgun is already a deterrent. Look at the Mossberg 500 Persuader for a good shotgun with a decent price.
 
The best have is the one you are carrying or can reach quickly that seems unlikely to be a shotgun.In a case like you describe with your neighbor that shogun would have been useless upstairs in your closet.Buy a handgun one you are comfortable holding, shooting and carrying be it a .22 .380 9mm .40 or .45 (bigger is better but a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .45) learn to use it keep it loaded and with you at all times and most important mentally prepare yourself to take someones life.Don't prepare your self to threaten or wound someone prepare to kill them or else prepare to be killed and possibly your family also.
 
texastonydobbs said:
all good points but for those of us who have children in a home you just cant carry or keep a firearm handy ,my son knows not to touch or play with a gun unless told by me to do other wise each family house hold is different
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Yes you can the safest place for a firearm is on you you control it and who has access to it.You can also get lockable storage boxes that have large 4 button combantions that are quick and easy to open.
Here is a good website. It is written by a woman and kinda geared to women but has some good info.
http://www.corneredcat.com/
 
9mm's are good for poking holes in people.

If you want a man stopper, get a .45acp, or atleast a .40s&w

I keep an HK USP.45 and a Glock 21 .45 next to my bed every night. Anyone entering my home without permission is going to have a really bad day.

lockbox.jpg
 
Chiller2 said:
Yes you can the safest place for a firearm is on you you control it and who has access to it.You can also get lockable storage boxes that have large 4 button combantions that are quick and easy to open.
Here is a good website. It is written by a woman and kinda geared to women but has some good info.
http://www.corneredcat.com/
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Correct, the safest AND most useful place for a firearm to be is on your body. Locked up is second best. It's safe from the kids but no use in an emergency.
 
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