Time to stop whining about bearings...

[stabman]

Over the past 2 months, I have made 4 knives. I actually just sold two of them last week.
While doing this, I wore the same 2 knives; the Emerson Karambit (original), which has washers, and the ZT 0561, which has bearings.

I have been covered in grinder grit from the angle grinder and belt sander, had so much metal shavings from the carbide burr on the Dremel that I had metal embedded in my skin, and been covered head to toe in G-10 dust. The knives obviously got a bunch on (and in) them as well.

I "cleaned" them with compressed air; nothing else.
The Karambit, with washers, got REALLY gritty. Hard to open after a while.
The ZT 0561 with bearings kept going strong.

I cleaned them both today.

The blade was washed prior to pics; nothing else was.

Interestingly, you can see that the steel liner has about as much marking from the bearings as the titanium...

After washing, the bearings moved around more freely in the washer cage. Having been coated in all that grit didn't affect the action really though, despite compressed air being the only cleaning agent. I didn't bother with compressed air the last time since I was going to disassemble and wash them; just used air blown from mouth to get G-10 dust out.

So yeah, bearings don't seem to be a liability.
The ZT 0561 was handy as a scribing tool last time to mark the G-10, as black magic marker doesn't show well on black G-10. Tip still pointy as before.

 

[DocJD]

Welp , no need for whining here ...but I also see little advantage to having bearings .

Except to fidget better ?

 

[HexY3co]

This has some bearing on my bearing decisions. If you will bearing with me.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Welp , no need for whining here ...but I also see little advantage to having bearings .

Except to fidget better ?

This thread is literally hard evidence of a bearing pivot knife having a significant performance advantage over a washer pivot knife.

 

[Locutus D'Borg]

All new technologies are criticized early on by the "experts" before eventually finding acceptance and then enthusiasm.

 

[Rufus1949]

I have had good and bad experiences with both. It seemed design and tolerances dictated performance.

 

[Wild Willie]

Just within the last month or so I've added 2 knives with bearings to my accumulation (an A.D. 20.5, and a Kershaw lucha). I'm definitely impressed by the action on both of them. Dirt/grit in them is actually pretty low on the list of worries for me. We got 8 years out of the bearings in our stump grinder, and those run in the dirt all the time. I've also got knives on washers that run just fine. I don't seek either one over the other, they're both good.

 

[unwisefool]

I've gotten my Freeman 451 extremely dirty and it's opened just fine on bearings.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

I've worked on countless jobs with an 0452 in my back pocket literary filled with dirt and dust. It gave no problems. While I still prefer washers, bearings can be super reliable and hard use.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Where are the photo’s of the dirty PB washered knife? (Ducking as I leave. )

 

[stabman]

Where are the photo’s of the dirty PB washered knife? (Ducking as I leave. )

Here it is after cleaning, before reassembly (backspacer not in photo):

Didn't take pics while dirty as the bearings issue is more a topic of discussion.

 

[Spey]

Welp , no need for whining here ...but I also see little advantage to having bearings .

Except to fidget better ?

DocJD, agree
No whining here either. But then I have no applications that warrant flippers or bearings :-/ in a pocket knife, especially when KISS has proven over decades to just keep working, and working, and working.

I would have been more interested to see the knives in pre-cleaned state to see what, where, and how much metal swarf had collected to both knives pivot assemblies. Additionally, little to no discussion related to bearing design (metal caged bearings vs nylon caged bearing or steel vs. ceramic bearings, type and quantity of lubrication, etc.).

Interesting the way this comes off as to almost indicate bearings somehow make a knife superior from a metal swarf intrusion to the pivot consideration :-/ as some here seem to present :-o

(Ducking as I leave. ) as I plagiarize Sharp & Fiery on my way out LOL

 

[Insipid Moniker]

DocJD, agree
No whining here either. But then I have no applications that warrant flippers or bearings :-/ in a pocket knife, especially when KISS has proven over decades to just keep working, and working, and working.

I would have been more interested to see the knives in pre-cleaned state to see what, where, and how much metal swarf had collected to both knives pivot assemblies. Additionally, little to no discussion related to bearing design (metal caged bearings vs nylon caged bearing or steel vs. ceramic bearings, type and quantity of lubrication, etc.).

Interesting the way this comes off as to almost indicate bearings somehow make a knife superior from a metal swarf intrusion to the pivot consideration :-/ as some here seem to present :-o

(Ducking as I leave. ) as I plagiarize Sharp & Fiery on my way out LOL

Real world experience in which a bearing knife outperformed a knife with washers. You seem inclined to argue with the basic facts presented because of your preconceptions.

 

[gazz98]

Besides the bearing vs washer question, we must address the obvious... do we trust stabman ?

 

[stabman]

Interesting the way this comes off as to almost indicate bearings somehow make a knife superior from a metal swarf intrusion to the pivot consideration :-/ as some here seem to present :-o

It did in this case with these two knives.
Nylatron washers versus steel bearings in a Nylon (?) cage.

It seems to have allowed for compressed air to blast the grit away; the Nylatron washers on this knife fit with no visible gaps, but some grit got in there. Not much, but then the greater contact surface area touching the pivoting area seems to have worked against things, making it really, really gritty.

The pictures of the ZT 0561 are prior to washing, other than the blade.
Both knives managed to have most grit blown away along the way; that little bit in the pivot area affected those washers more than the bearings.

 

[stabman]

Besides the bearing vs washer question, we must address the obvious... do we trust stabman ?

Maybe?

I trust me, but I cannot make that decision for others.

 

[DocJD]

This thread is literally hard evidence of a bearing pivot knife having a significant performance advantage over a washer pivot knife.

That may be true in this one case , but all bearing systems are NOT created equal.

Many here have the opinion that washers are generally stronger and less problem prone , especially in dirty environments .

I don't have enough experience with bearings to know either way , but I have had good performance from washers for a very long time .

I have some with bearings , great fidgeters , but not something I'd choose for hard use .

The best bearing systems probably add to costs without any proven benefit for my use .

Again , not a burning issue for me at all .

Besides the bearing vs washer question, we must address the obvious... do we trust stabman ?

Read his books if you want some idea what's hiding inside .

 

[DocJD]

All new technologies are criticized early on by the "experts" before eventually finding acceptance and then enthusiasm.

Most new tech is horribly misapplied at first and ends up being more narrowly used once more fully understood .

Very powerful continuous X-ray (fluoroscopic) machines were once used for fitting in shoe stores ...gave new meaning to "hot foot" .

 

[Insipid Moniker]

That may be true in this one case , but all bearing systems are NOT created equal.

Many here have the opinion that washers are generally stronger and less problem prone , especially in dirty environments .

I don't have enough experience with bearings to know either way , but I have had good performance from washers for a very long time .

I have some with bearings , great fidgeters , but not something I'd choose for hard use .

The best bearing systems probably add to costs without any proven benefit for my use .

Again , not a burning issue for me at all .

Read his books if you want some idea what's hiding inside .

We have hard evidence for bearings providing a real world performance advantage, which you said you didn't see. Now you're falling back on hypotheticals to try to shore up your argument. Is every bearing pivot superior to every washer pivot? Almost certainly not, but we have here solid, real world evidence of one outperforming the other.

You say there's no proven benefit for your use, but I personally find the ability to open my folding knives, regardless of what I've been working on, quite beneficial. Given your interest in SD, I'm surprised you wouldn't think the same.

 

[Hashishiin]

I like bearings for their smoothness, I only have a few, given as gifts. The ones I carried, suffer no ill effects from pockets (Ruike and Bestech).
I carry more knives with washers, though. Not on purpose, 88% of the knives I like happen to be on washers.