Time to stop whining about bearings...

I like to keep it simple now days, I like both for different reasons. I used to be of the school of thought that bearings would get gummed up over time but haven't experienced it yet. And actually, now that I think about it, I have 3 main knives that I use for dirty jobs and they are all on bearings. All have performed really well. I've been carrying my Kizer Guru a lot lately and it smoothed out quite a bit after carrying it about 10 days. It was already decently smooth but had a little strange feeling in the action. I disassembled, cleaned and lightly lubed it when I got it and have now carried it for about 20 % of the time since I got it like 6 months ago. Just about 2 days ago I (think I) noticed the action slow down slightly, like there's some pocket dust and what not slightly gumming it up, but it's very minimal. May even be placebo. However washer knives will do the same thing over about the same time period. So for me, I don't care whether a knife is on bearings or washers when I'm looking at buying it. It's a detail that I gloss over in the description. Usually I don't really know until I get it and look. I know most everything else about it, but that part just kind of goes in one ear and out the other because I don't mind one way or the other.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
We have hard evidence for bearings providing a real world performance advantage, which you said you didn't see. Now you're falling back on hypotheticals to try to shore up your argument. Is every bearing pivot superior to every washer pivot? Almost certainly not, but we have here solid, real world evidence of one outperforming the other.

You say there's no proven benefit for your use, but I personally find the ability to open my folding knives, regardless of what I've been working on, quite beneficial. Given your interest in SD, I'm surprised you wouldn't think the same.
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I can wave open my Cold Steel SD folders as fast as I can pull them from my from pockets .

I also have many years experience using these washer systems in hard use with zero issues .

Only the ones I've used as throwing knives have needed even the pivots tightened .

Most have only been spayed , occasionally , with a silicone / teflon lube .

Otherwise nothing needed to be adjusted or disassembled .

In over 60 years of using folders extensively , never once have I thought , " Dang , this slow@$$ opening knife NEED some bearings !"🤪

If it ain't broke ... 🤔
 
stabman said:
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Go figure!

Wait a minute... Are those steel bearings? I thought those were supposed to spontaneously rust into powder and lock up your knife!

Either you are the luckiest guy on the planet or the arguments against bearings aren't the slam dunk some people think they are...
 
Thank you for sharing your experience. While the bearings outperformed the washers in this case my bigger take away is that the bearings were NOT weaker/inferior to washers. I have knives that run on each and opening mechanism alone has no bearing on my decision to purchase. I have always heard (and assumed) that bearings would be more of a liability in dirty environments and I am happy to learn that is not the case here. A N of 1 isnt totally conclusive and it may vary by knife but maybe bearings aren’t an Achilles heel in dirty environments?
 
IMHO and experience of 54 years of using folders, 8 of those years backpacking and fly fishing rivers in Washington, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, California plus a few pacific islands, where my folders were covered in fish guts, blood, mud and sand, I've never been able to form a conclusive opinion on which system is better. Simply too many variables such as design and manufacturing tolerance, bearing or washer material (steel/ceramic), composition and coarseness of mud/sand, type of lube, etc.. I've used washers most of the time and they've performed well. Some of them got gritty and the action grew stiff, but most of the time a good flush with water and a little lube restored the action. Sometimes my knives on bearings would get gritty too, and again a good flush and lube restored the action.

In either system I would say rust, whether from the knife steel, bearing material or handle itself, played a bigger factor in the continuing function of my knife pivots under adverse conditions.

The biggest differences I noticed between the two systems, and this is purely from my user experience and nothing scientific, is (1) the bearing knives clean/flush out a little faster and (2) they are a bit more "tunable". By tunable I mean the pivot can be tightened or loosened more to adjust the action before the blade starts to become uncentered. As a matter of fact I can crank down heavily on some of them and the blade still remains centered. Washered knives such as my CRK Unumzaan/Inkosi and Hinderer 4th Gen are more finicky and require the use of thread lock to hold them at their sweet spot.

Here's my Socom Elite cutting away tree roots. It also got fairly muddy after turning the water back on. The bearing pivot functioned flawlessly that time.
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K.O.D. said:
You also have to remember it's an Emerson vs ZT...
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ZT makes a better Emerson than Emerson. Anyone who would say otherwise is a blind fanboy or a dumbass.

My own experience on pivots is that both are fine. Both can be smooth (but washers are smoother IMO - have some like buttttah). Both can get f@cked up and gunky and gritty and still work ok. Both clean up fine but washers may take more effort simply due to full contact vs. multiple contact points.

I was skeptical of bearing pivots early on but I’m not anymore after trying them out.
 
I went through a crazy sandstorm with my Oz Machine Company Roosevelt and it got really dusted and it surprisingly performed very well with all the crap in there stillFC54BE02-459B-4C0C-9EFA-5D679E9A38CF.jpeg
 
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DocJD said:
I can wave open my Cold Steel SD folders as fast as I can pull them from my from pockets .

I also have many years experience using these washer systems in hard use with zero issues .

Only the ones I've used as throwing knives have needed even the pivots tightened .

Most have only been spayed , occasionally , with a silicone / teflon lube .

Otherwise nothing needed to be adjusted or disassembled .

In over 60 years of using folders extensively , never once have I thought , " Dang , this slow@$$ opening knife NEED some bearings !"🤪

If it ain't broke ... 🤔
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And yet here we have, as I've repeatedly pointed out, direct evidence of a washer pivot becoming difficult to open due to debris while a bearing pivot continued to perform.

Again, I don't see how the can't be interpreted as a clear performance advantage, which for some reason you deny seeing. If you're happy with the knives you have, that's great. Many people are entirely happy with blades made from 420HC and 1095, but denying that other steels offer performance advantages over those two is simply delusional. Obviously, I don't think this situation is nearly as cut and dry, but your refusal to accept direct evidence in front of you makes it seem as though you're more invested in defending the knives that you like from some imagined attack than actually assessing performance advantages.
 
I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as it seems. Why? I have a Microtech Anax on bearings which after use became very off center. When I disassembled I found that the bearings had worn away one race washer almost completely and cut grooves in the other one. Luckily Microtech is a good company and they sent me new race washers.
8BAE15B0-D28A-452F-8638-E0566EEC1486.jpeg0EACBD4F-F440-47D2-8D41-0394592FD249.jpeg

Also, I’m curious to whether you ran the bearings dry and the pb with oil? Oil “attracts” dust.
Not questioning your finding, just wondering about variables. Also, could be an Emerson problem. 🤣😂🤣😂

I use washered knives in construction everyday, and they see anything from sawdust to plastic/metal/aluminum shavings. Never had this gritty action which is hard to open happen. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Glad the bearings are holding up for you.

Bottom line: Enjoy the knives you like. 😁
 
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Sharp & Fiery said:
I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as it seems. Why? I have a Microtech Anax on bearings which after use became very off center. When I disassembled I found that the bearings had worn away one race washer almost completely and cut grooves in the other one. Luckily Microtech is a good company and they sent me new race washers.
View attachment 1847547View attachment 1847548

Also, I’m curious to whether you ran the bearings dry and the pb with oil? Oil attracts dust.
Not questioning your finding, just wondering about variables. Also, could be an Emerson problem. 🤣😂🤣😂

I use washered knives in construction everyday, and they see anything from sawdust to plastic/metal/aluminum shavings. Never had this gritty action which is hard to open happen. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Glad the bearings are holding up for you.

Bottom line: Enjoy the knives you like. 😁
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While that is a good question, I would also like to state that oil doesn't "attract" dust, it doesn't have any electrostatic, magnetism or gravitational pull. It just "holds" the dust that falls on it... Also, microtech has a much different bearing system that ZT knives and makes less bearing knives - it is worth taking the execution/implementation of the pivot into account - as that is vital in any product or feature.
 
Gideons said:
While that is a good question, I would also like to state that oil doesn't "attract" dust, it doesn't have any electrostatic, magnetism or gravitational pull. It just "holds" the dust that falls on it... Also, microtech has a much different bearing system that ZT knives and makes less bearing knives - it is worth taking the execution/implementation of the pivot into account - as that is vital in any product or feature.
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Tis true.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
This thread is literally hard evidence of a bearing pivot knife having a significant performance advantage over a washer pivot knife.
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While I appreciate the information provided by the op, this is far from hard evidence. For it to be proof of anything, he would have to use 2 identical knives with the only difference being bearings VS washers. Using 2 very different knives brings to mind questions about how well sealed one or the other is, how they were used, how deep in the pocket they ride and a dozen smaller questions.

For the record, most if not all the knives I have right now are on washers but I have nothing against bearings. I would rather have washers on a hard use knife for the same reason a heavy truck has tapered roller bearings and a Honda Civic has ball bearings in its hubs. The broader points of contact.
 
Bearings are just fine. I've had one instance where I had dirt get in and affect the action of a knife (zt 0470). Other than that, no issues.

Shirogorov did a test to see what putting stress on the pivot would do to the knife. They did way more than is realistic... No failures, very little damage to the bearing races (titanium).

It's been years since bearings were introduced into knives, and all of the "titanium will wear out!" and "they're not as strong as washers!" crowds fears have just not come to fruition.

I like bearings, I like washers... If I like a knife, its built well, and functions well, I don't honestly care. It makes as much sense to me as people making a big stink about lock failures on knives that have been abused to lock failure (spine whacking and batonning with the lock engaged). Use the knife as designed and it will last a lifetime or more, bearings or no.
 
I've had good and bad experiences with bearings collecting debris, depending on the knife and manufacturer.

For example, Shiros have never got gritty on me, but Hinderers with the tri-way system seem to become gritty quite readily. This is my own experience with a limited sample size - I have three of each and they are all users.
 
Just as a car has bearings that are designed for the application the same should be the case for knives. If it has a good bearing in it then it should be fine. Times advance, progress is made, and people resist. Just as people love mechanical watches even though they aren't as accurate as quartz. It will be the same for almost every advancement in society.
 
DMG said:
While I appreciate the information provided by the op, this is far from hard evidence. For it to be proof of anything, he would have to use 2 identical knives with the only difference being bearings VS washers. Using 2 very different knives brings to mind questions about how well sealed one or the other is, how they were used, how deep in the pocket they ride and a dozen smaller questions.

For the record, most if not all the knives I have right now are on washers but I have nothing against bearings. I would rather have washers on a hard use knife for the same reason a heavy truck has tapered roller bearings and a Honda Civic has ball bearings in its hubs. The broader points of contact.
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You're incorrectly conflating evidence and proof. Proof requires evidence, but the two are not the same. This very much is hard evidence of a bearing pivot knife outperforming a washer pivot knife in a real world scenario. It's not proof that bearing pivots are inherently superior, which would be the claim you seem to think that I'm making.
 
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