Time to stop whining about bearings...

DocJD said:
Welp , I sure wouldn't huff it ...best not to inhale at all , if possible .

Same product comes also in a liquid form . I used that most on stuff that's indoors and not portable .

I don't use for or around food prep .

I avoid skin contact of spray directly and until completely dry .

Most of the toxicity is from the propellants and highly volatile solvents , generally speaking for spray products .

Judge for yourself and choose as seems best for your use : https://etc.engineering.uiowa.edu/sites/etc.engineering.uiowa.edu/files/9508.pdf
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I'm not particularly concerned about the carriers. As suggested, they should largely evaporate away. Still, the mystery mix of distillates and PTFE (which is surprisingly not mentioned in the document's ingredient list) isn't something I want on my EDC gear or in my pocket. Some some vague health concerns have been expressed regarding PTFE. There are also some environmental concerns, especially regarding its manufacture. (I know people dealing with groundwater contamination from this.)

Are those concerns overblown? They certainly could be. At the end of the day though, I just end up with the question of "why bother" with something like this in the first place? Is the PTFE really giving you an advantage? Probably not. Given that explicitly "non-toxic" or "food-safe" alternatives are available, why not just make those the first choice?
 
Chronovore said:
I'm not particularly concerned about the carriers. As suggested, they should largely evaporate away. Still, the mystery mix of distillates and PTFE (which is surprisingly not mentioned in the document's ingredient list) isn't something I want on my EDC gear or in my pocket. Some some vague health concerns have been expressed regarding PTFE. There are also some environmental concerns, especially regarding its manufacture. (I know people dealing with groundwater contamination from this.)

Are those concerns overblown? They certainly could be. At the end of the day though, I just end up with the question of "why bother" with something like this in the first place? Is the PTFE really giving you an advantage? Probably not. Given that explicitly "non-toxic" or "food-safe" alternatives are available, why not just make those the first choice?
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Just in general , I would be most concerned for children , young animals , and the pregnant .

Almost everything is toxic or otherwise dangerous , try to understand relative risk factors and reasonable mitigation practices .

Take a balanced overall approach to all threats to health and safety . I know folks that act as if one bite of anything not certified organic is certain death ; yet will smoke , drink , and drive like maniacs . 🤷‍♂️

Avoid monkeypox prone parties .
 
DocJD said:
Just in general , I would be most concerned for children , young animals , and the pregnant .

Almost everything is toxic or otherwise dangerous , try to understand relative risk factors and reasonable mitigation practices .

Take a balanced overall approach to all threats to health and safety . I know folks that act as if one bite of anything not certified organic is certain death ; yet will smoke , drink , and drive like maniacs . 🤷‍♂️

Avoid monkeypox prone parties .
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On a lot of these things, a wise man once told me: "don't lean into the punch".
 
DocJD said:
Just in general , I would be most concerned for children , young animals , and the pregnant .

Almost everything is toxic or otherwise dangerous , try to understand relative risk factors and reasonable mitigation practices .

Take a balanced overall approach to all threats to health and safety . I know folks that act as if one bite of anything not certified organic is certain death ; yet will smoke , drink , and drive like maniacs . 🤷‍♂️

Avoid monkeypox prone parties .
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So you like bearings is what you're saying?
 
The answer here is: neither.

QzJwOS3h.jpg
 
I have a slightly different take on this, I work in Maintenance / Engineering in a food factory and our biggest point of mechanical failure is bearings. Mainly because of the high pressure washing and sanitizing chemicals magically remove the lube causing the bearings to rust up and using a technical term that I like they “have a come-apart” or just plain lock up. We have tried everything, stainless bearings, triple sealed bearings, solid lube bearings, lube for life bearings, etc. all have the same effect, shortened lifespan due to harsh environment and the only difference appears to be some cost more and some take longer to get replacements. That being said, I don’t think between bearings and washers that one is really superior over the other, but they do have different properties that may make them better for some applications. For an at home and workplace tinkerer who loves to fidget with knives and wants smooth action, bearings are awesome. However if I was in the military and was deploying to an area with lots of fine talcum powder style sand like Iraq and didn’t know when I would be able to get a replacement if something went wrong, then honestly I would prefer washers. I guess you just have to fit the tool to the task at hand.
 
AntDog said:
ZT makes a better Emerson than Emerson. Anyone who would say otherwise is a blind fanboy or a dumbass.
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While I disagree with your assertion, I'll still be respectful towards you. I'm not a fanboy of either, but definitely prefer Emerson's to ZT's.
 
Officer's Match said:
While I disagree with your assertion, I'll still be respectful towards you. I'm not a fanboy of either, but definitely prefer Emerson's to ZT's.
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I most respectfully will defend your right to assert your misguided opinion , Sir ! ;)

For the money , I'd rather buy even a Kershaw-Emerson (and the ZT-Emersons are much better , IMHO ).

Emerson did help pioneer wave opening , which I deeply appreciate .

No bearings to whine here , IIRC :
 
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I’m gonna keep the bearings in this one for a while stabman stabman and use it hard. I normally swap over to PB washers in the iMamba model, but for science sake, I’ll keep them in this one.

I’ll let ya know my thoughts. I’m going in with an open mind.
Last time I had a bad experience with grit in a bearing knife, fingers crossed this turns out differently!!
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How much friction is a pocket knife going to generate on bearings or washers ? Not much at all. The more precisely engineered the better as far as having a smooth slick action. With more precision comes less tolerance for debris. Yes a good tight action can keep debris out but when it does get in it will jam.

Loose sloppy AK s keep going and going despite dirt, Loose sloppy 1911 s (the way they were originally designed and with good reason) keep going and going. A Remington New Model Army (1858) black powder revolver seizes up after about 18 to 24 shots and needs cleaning because the cylinder pin is smooth and precisely fitted. Black powder fowling is fine enough to be blown in. The Colt 1860 Black Powder revolver will keep shooting and shooting because the cylinder pin (really called an arbor on Colts) has slots milled into it to for debris to pool into rather than between moving parts.

These all don't work or not because of precision or sloppy precision between parts per say but because there is a place for the dirt and debris to pool up in out of the way of the parts that contact and move against each other. Where there is no place for debris to go it remains in between the moving parts and interferes with function.

I figure it's quite possible that the space between the bearings give the debris somewhere to go rather than between the moving parts allowing more use before cleaning while the wide contact area of washers don't give the debris anywhere to go. The debris remain between the moving parts.

Precision can keep debris out however I have never found anything that is able to keep super fine particles of sand that gets blown around at the beach out. It's just that fine. I am sure there are other debris just as fine also.

The upside with washers is that they are generally simple, easy to manufacture and obtain (in most cases anyway.) Washers do work fine if not excellently regardless of the cons. I like both.
 
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greater said:
How much friction is a pocket knife going to generate on bearings or washers ? Not much at all. The more precisely engineered the better as far as having a smooth slick action. With more precision comes less tolerance for debris. Yes a good tight action can keep debris out but when it does get in it will jam.

Loose sloppy AK s keep going and going despite dirt, Loose sloppy 1911 s (the way they were originally designed and with good reason) keep going and going. A Remington New Model Army (1858) black powder revolver seizes up after about 18 to 24 shots and needs cleaning because the cylinder pin is smooth and precisely fitted. Black powder fowling is fine enough to be blown in. The Colt 1860 Black Powder revolver will keep shooting and shooting because the cylinder pin (really called an arbor on Colts) has slots milled into it to for debris to pool into rather than between moving parts.

These all don't work or not because of precision or sloppy precision between parts per say but because there is a place for the dirt and debris to pool up in out of the way of the parts that contact and move against each other. Where there is no place for debris to go it remains in between the moving parts and interferes with function.

I figure it's quite possible that the space between the bearings give the debris somewhere to go rather than between the moving parts allowing more use before cleaning while the wide contact area of washers don't give the debris anywhere to go. The debris remain between the moving parts.

Precision can keep debris out however I have never found anything that is able to keep super fine particles of sand that gets blown around at the beach out. It's just that fine. I am sure there are other debris just as fine also.

The upside with washers is that they are generally simple, easy to manufacture and obtain (in most cases anyway.) Washers do work fine if not excellently regardless of the cons. I like both.
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This is the difference. With washers, when you get dirt or grit intrusion, it has nowhere to go. It will be on the moving bearing surfaces and affect the action. Grease is a good way of making an intrusion barrier, but once it gets in, it’s in. It’s harder to contaminate the joint but once it’s contaminated, you’re going to feel it.

With bearings, it’s much easier for grit to get it, but there’s also a lot more space in there for the grit to settle besides the actual bearing track. Just by the nature of the rolling action, grit can be displaced out of the bearing path. Once again grease is helpful to trap it there. That was how the original IKBS was designed to work.
 
H0kieengineer said:
What knife is that?
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Cheap , junky POS , dangerously non-functional and a crime against nature . :mad:

Unbranded Ebay disaster that I eventually returned successfully , for full refund, through extraordinary painful efforts . :eek:
 
DocJD said:
Cheap , junky POS , dangerously non-functional and a crime against nature . :mad:

Unbranded Ebay disaster that I eventually returned successfully , for full refund, through extraordinary painful efforts . :eek:
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Bummer. I’ve wanted to try a knife on needle bearings without paying for a Shiro. I can’t seem to find one of the early Real Steel Megalodons that came on needle bearings.
 
H0kieengineer said:
Bummer. I’ve wanted to try a knife on needle bearings without paying for a Shiro. I can’t seem to find one of the early Real Steel Megalodons that came on needle bearings.
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There are probably decent needle bearing systems available , but the one I had was just a terrible knife and the bearings came loaded with a heavy green grease and were just loose .

Detent was so bad the blade would fall open in pocket . IIRC that's why I operated on the knife .

I was shocked that the bearing system was so nasty and a nightmare to reassemble .

Live and learn ! ;)
 
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