Time to stop whining about bearings...

[Enzo’s Woodshop]

I had no idea that folks were so invested in the “bearings vs washers” debate.

I’ve used knives with bearings, knives with washers, and knives with neither. They’ve never been much of a factor on whether or not I like a given knife. Things like blade shape, blade geometry, handle thickness, handle length, and appearance (I like traditional knives a lot) play a much bigger role in my attraction to a given knife.

As for dirt / grime, I simply use a fixed-blade for anything that will be dirty. I usually carry a Buck 119 or Buck 124, which are both fixed blades, and those don’t mind dirt / grime etc. Always a breeze to clean.

 

[stabman]

Edit : Stay tuned for a few pics that will end ye ole .45 vs 9mm controversy ...finally !

.45 versus 9mm...the answer is Mega-Smatchet.

 

[stabman]

stabman ,​

From my initial read, it is my understanding the metal swarth was blown out fairly soon after contamination. Then a full disassembly was performed, then more cleaning, then photos. So little time/use between contamination, to point where action was compromised, and cleaning.

Contamination was blown out after each grinding session.
Disassembly was only done after last session...that's 2 months of time with no disassembly or full cleaning, only compressed air.

As mentioned in the initial post, only the blade of the ZT was washed prior to pics. You'll note some stuff that didn't blow out in the lock-bar insert screw hole.

Didn't bother with pics of Karambit prior to cleaning...annoying having to carry all the parts outside to take pics in decent light, and wasn't aimed at being a great "science" experiment.

It was interesting that the bearings kept working all that time with minimal maintenance; on more than one occasion I did not use full compressed air, but just breath to blow crap out...air compressor was off and I don't know where the power switch is hidden away in my brother's garage (good luck finding anything in there if you didn't put it there yourself! ).

 

[SimplyMinded]

Edit : Stay tuned for a few pics that will end ye ole .45 vs 9mm controversy ...finally !

What I do is take a washer, put it on a wall and put a tack in the center to hold it. then I tap a bearing into a 9mm HP using the butt end of my .45, load the bullet into my 9mm pistol I've blinged out with Emerson logos and try to shoot the washer before my wife calls the asylum again.

 

[DMG]

DocJD D DMG y'all are right and I overstated my point and then was arguing for the sake of arguing. Apologies for being an ass.

ETA: Need to include @Spey in this apology as well.

No worries. You were no more of an ass than I was.

 

[DocJD]

Honestly, I overstated my point and got caught up in arguing for the sake of arguing. Apologies to many in this thread.

It's all good !

I actually had some fun with this topic and clarified ( to my own mind) my own relative apathy on this particular issue .

Most of us here are a tad overly passionate about our hobby and tend to overboard sometimes .

Except me of course . I'm always perfectly cool headed and logical !

It finally dawned on me that the reason I never had any real problems with either washers or bearings is that I've nearly always used a fixed blade for anything really dirty or tough / hard duty .

I trust most of my "hard use " folders to get me through an emergency as necessary , but hate the fuss and bother of trying to clean out all the working parts of a folder for routine dirty jobs .

 

[Lesknife]

My son and I both have Buck 830 Marksman g10 handles his is 20cv mine is s35vn blade. We use them cutting hay bale poly twine with dirt, hay and all kinds of outdoor debris, feed sacks, rope and lots of dirty stuff going on two years now. We only blow them out and wash with soapy water if the crud sticks. So far nothing has effected them, they are as strong and durable as when we got them. But we aren’t fidgets either, we just open and close them as needed to work.

I have several folders with washers and I’ve had to clean them more often after dirty work and they don’t open or close as easy when they are dirty. The bearing style just keep working like nothing is wrong. So I would say that the bearing style is more proficient in dirty conditions. I still use washer style on occasion and it isn’t that difficult to clean them when needed so it’s not a big deal to me either way. I think with reasonable care both work just fine.

 

[Chronovore]

The ideas that bearings are easier to clean and that washers may be more likely to trap particulates of certain sizes are compelling. Those ideas make sense, given the spacing on caged bearings and the fact that those spaces move within the overall space. Think of this in context with blowing out a knife with the narrow straw attachment on a can of Dust-off. At least theoretically, a wider selection of grit could be more quickly or easily removable from the bearings.

 

[The Grendels]

My Spyderco Native 5 and Ka-Bar Dozier look at the argument over washers versus bearings and say: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Those two knives have neither system for their pivot, because apparently, who needs bearings and washers?

 

[Bastler]

My Spyderco Native 5 and Ka-Bar Dozier look at the argument over washers versus bearings and say: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Those two knives have neither system for their pivot, because apparently, who needs bearings and washers?

Call me a Luddite, but folding knives worked for centuries with blades bearing against the liners. New technology is fine, but not always essential.

 

[Lesknife]

Bearings and washers are for reducing friction and maintaining an air gap. Otherwise they would be friction folders. If done properly when assembled the gap is very minimal maybe 1/1000 inch. The smaller the gap the more debris is kept out. Just enough to allow the blade to move freely without binding. These aren’t high speed continuous rotation so they should last for years with reasonable care.

 

[K.O.D.]

I have found that many of the "action" issues I've run into in the last several years have less to do with materials and more to due with factory lube. I've had a few knives come with a black, viscous lube that attracts and holds debris causing issues.

Off the top of my head two were the A Purvis Progeny and Heretic Manticore E. Disassembly, thorough cleaning, a lube other than pine tar, and they function perfectly. Better than new.

 

[DMG]

My son and I both have Buck 830 Marksman g10 handles his is 20cv mine is s35vn blade. We use them cutting hay bale poly twine with dirt, hay and all kinds of outdoor debris, feed sacks, rope and lots of dirty stuff going on two years now. We only blow them out and wash with soapy water if the crud sticks. So far nothing has effected them, they are as strong and durable as when we got them. But we aren’t fidgets either, we just open and close them as needed to work.

I have several folders with washers and I’ve had to clean them more often after dirty work and they don’t open or close as easy when they are dirty. The bearing style just keep working like nothing is wrong. So I would say that the bearing style is more proficient in dirty conditions. I still use washer style on occasion and it isn’t that difficult to clean them when needed so it’s not a big deal to me either way. I think with reasonable care both work just fine.

I have considered picking up a Marksman and had no idea they were on washers. Buck has been such a traditional company that I am surprised. Maybe I’ll replace my PoS HK/Benchmade work knife with one and see how it does in the shop.

 

[DMG]

I have found that many of the "action" issues I've run into in the last several years have less to do with materials and more to due with factory lube. I've had a few knives come with a black, viscous lube that attracts and holds debris causing issues.

Off the top of my head two were the A Purvis Progeny and Heretic Manticore E. Disassembly, thorough cleaning, a lube other than pine tar, and they function perfectly. Better than new.

I have found nothing better than a tiny drop of synthetic motor oil for lubing knives, especially hard users. Then compressed air to blow off any excess.

 

[Lesknife]

I have considered picking up a Marksman and had no idea they were on washers. Buck has been such a traditional company that I am surprised. Maybe I’ll replace my PoS HK/Benchmade work knife with one and see how it does in the shop.

No washers, they are bearing pivot. I don’t oil the knife at all. Oil can collect dirt so we just wash them with some soapy water and blow them out dry.
Now with the washer type I do put a drop of oil on the pivot and wipe off excess.

 

[Enzo’s Woodshop]

For oil on folders I’ve found Sentry Solutions Tuf-Glide to work well. It’s a dry-lube, so it doesn’t attract any dirt/debris like most oils. Just let it set for about a day, and it’s all good.

 

[Chronovore]

I have found nothing better than a tiny drop of synthetic motor oil for lubing knives, especially hard users. Then compressed air to blow off any excess.

It certainly works. Heck, I know guys who exclusively use it in their 1911s. If you want better, check out Lubriplate's "FMO Gun Oil". It's non-toxic, food safe, and fantastic in knives. It's around $8 for 1.5oz, but that's still a tiny fraction of the cost guys around here pay for specialty "knife oils" like KPL.

It's actually the same stuff recommended in this older article discussing how lubricants work and the similar trend of overpriced "snake oil" in the gun community.

Lubrication 101: Gun oil, snake oil, and how to tell the difference. – www.GrantCunningham.com

 

[DocJD]

For simplicity , I basically use this Dupont silicone with teflon spray on everything : https://www.aidsquilt.org/best-silicone-spray/

Not dry lube but very light , doesn't seem to hold dirt . Won't damage most surfaces; but don't overspray on places you don't want slippery !

IDK . but I've been told , can mess up oxygen sensors ? Caution around car engines etc .

 

[Chronovore]

For simplicity , I basically use this Dupont silicone with teflon spray on everything : https://www.aidsquilt.org/best-silicone-spray/

Not dry lube but very light , doesn't seem to hold dirt . Won't damage most surfaces; but don't overspray on places you don't want slippery !

IDK . but I've been told , can mess up oxygen sensors ? Caution around car engines etc .

I think there are legitimate questions as to how healthy this stuff is in the long term. I tend to be conservative when it comes to lubricants or other substances used on things that I handle regularly or keep in a pocket near... important organs all day long. The teflon also seems superfluous to the task. Check out my post directly above yours.

 

[DocJD]

I think there are legitimate questions as to how healthy this stuff is in the long term. I tend to be conservative when it comes to lubricants or other substances used on things that I handle regularly or keep in a pocket near... important organs all day long. The teflon also seems superfluous to the task. Check out my post directly above yours.

Welp , I sure wouldn't huff it ...best not to inhale at all , if possible .

Same product comes also in a liquid form . I used that most on stuff that's indoors and not portable .

I don't use for or around food prep .

I avoid skin contact of spray directly and until completely dry .

Most of the toxicity is from the propellants and highly volatile solvents , generally speaking for spray products .

Judge for yourself and choose as seems best for your use : https://etc.engineering.uiowa.edu/sites/etc.engineering.uiowa.edu/files/9508.pdf