TK Magazine "Wilderness Knife"

Outside of my khukuris, I prefer a thinner blade. This wasn't always the case, though. In my youth (I'm now a venerable 29:rolleyes:) I wouldn't buy a knife thinner than 3/16. Now they just feel ponderous and clumsy to me. Koyote, it sucks that you're having trouble selling your fine wares. As soon as I can find another job, you'll be getting a call from me. Your drop edge nessie is at the top of my list.
 
Not to take anything away from A.G., but ROSARMS makes some excellent knives with thin, light, but good sized blades.
 
now Ray Jardine would be a likely candidate, he would probably recommend the "Olfa Touch Knife" for long trail hiking.
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Actually, in his new book, Trail Life, he admits to sometimes taking a small fixed blade. Yeah, I was surprised.

He still loves the SAK classic though....
 
A. G. Russell said:
You are correct, thinner is better, it is just that the gerneral knife buyer will not buy a thin knife.
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I guess my tastes run counter to the current knife community, because I find most production knives advertised as "bushcraft" "survival" or "camping" knives to be much too thick. I recently picked up a Ka-Bar BK2 Campanion, based on the almost universal recomendaitons it recieves for this sort of role. Personally, while it is a decent cutter I find that with it's 1/4 inch stock blade it feels and handles more like a brick than a knive. Much too heavy and clumsy for my tastes.

My two current favorite "camping" blades are my Spyderco Hollsum Dayhiker and my Grohmann Survival Knife, both of which are made from 5/32 inch stock.. I find these knives more than strong and robust enough for any work I ask of them, and indeed neither of them seems like a particularly "thin" blade to me. I feel no need for a thicker, heavier knife than these two. :thumbup:
 
Magnussen said:
Call me green then....


I remember a swimcoach in my old highschool saying that anybody who couldn't swim a full length without coming up for a breath was a poor swimmer. We all tested ourselves time and time again without fail. At the community outdoor pool we would swim across and back multiple times. One day we got in early and the cover was still on.... nobody would try it for fear of being stuck in the middle if we ran out of breath.

I can make due with a small a knife or no knife at all, but would never intentionally set myself up to get "stuck in the middle".

Swallow your ultralight pride and pack safe.


Rick
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Rick, you the man! You said what I wanted to say, only you said it perfectly.
 
koyote said:
It's an uphill battle- with the exception of a few styles of *big* blades, everything I make is under 3/16- most 3/32 and I have problems selling them all the time. No matter how well they perform.
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The thing with selling is you have to sell people what they want to buy, not what you want to use. I do custom woodwork and I am ever having to do for others things that I would never do in my own house. To sell a thinner knife to someone who prefers thicker ones you'd first have to sell them on the idea of it. While I personally don't mind a little flex in my kitchen knives, I'd much rather not have it in my knives that I take to the field. If I was looking for a knife with a six or seven inch blade I would start at 1/4 to 3/16....I might even like a six inch in 5/32. But...I'd not even consider a field knife in anything thinner unless it was a drastic situation and I had no other choice or the blade was only four to five inches and I'd be praying for nothing less than 1/8 steel then. I started at 3/16, went up to 1/4, then went to 5/16.....now I am working my way back down slowly but I know what I can do with what now and I'll only be willing to go so thin in relation to length. I am one of those people who just refuse to carry an axe or hatchet and have adapted my fieldcraft style around my knife....it has to be a stout one.
 
Great discussion! I love hearing all these different points of view on the subject! Keep it going!

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IMO, the edge retention is the most important factor, not the thickness and how well it stands up to batoning or abuse.
The Dozier Wilderness gives both. Great edge retention with a thicker spine.
 
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Magnussen already said it. Pack safe.
Ultralight hiking. I'd rather be a warm and safe greenhorn than a cold and dead hiking pro. :)
Seriously, up here there is no such thing as ultralight hiking. You gotta carry what you need. You can lighten up by purchasing light alternatives, but you need a real tent, real gear and real knives. Ok, KNIFE. But I take knives. And an axe. And a firearm. Can't tell you how many times we hear about people lost or dead in the woods, and my First Nations friends always say the same thing. "Another white guy in the woods without a gun..."
It really does depend on location and conditions, but I don't care where I am, I like knives, feel comfortable with knives, and will carry knives. And not just knives under 2.5 inches.
Doziers are excellent, but I've never seen the Wilderness model in person. Would love one of those.

The argument about too thick, too thin, is really getting picky. Carry what you're happy with. I can accomplish anything with my SBT in 5/32" A2, although could definitely get away with thinner. But I like that SBT, so that's what I will use.

Thicker spine makes sense to me on hollow grinds to accommodate the wheel radius and looks of the finished knife. Flat, Scandi or convex grinds seem to be able to get away with thinner spines. Personally, I don't get the 1/4 inch thick knife thing, but if that's what you like, who the hell am I to tell you not to? There may be a damn good reason you like that much steel, or maybe it's just a taste thing... Again, criticizing your choice is not my business. (I will give you my reasons and opinion if you ask though...)
Ooops, starting to drift...

Good ol' Steve Dick likes what he likes, too. I personally enjoy his writings, even though mmmv. Just nice to see good people writing good things about good knives.

This place would be pretty boring if we all sat around with the same knife.
 
mistwalker said:
The thing with selling is you have to sell people what they want to buy, not what you want to use. I do custom woodwork and I am ever having to do for others things that I would never do in my own house. To sell a thinner knife to someone who prefers thicker ones you'd first have to sell them on the idea of it. While I personally don't mind a little flex in my kitchen knives, I'd much rather not have it in my knives that I take to the field. If I was looking for a knife with a six or seven inch blade I would start at 1/4 to 3/16....I might even like a six inch in 5/32. But...I'd not even consider a field knife in anything thinner unless it was a drastic situation and I had no other choice or the blade was only four to five inches and I'd be praying for nothing less than 1/8 steel then. I started at 3/16, went up to 1/4, then went to 5/16.....now I am working my way back down slowly but I know what I can do with what now and I'll only be willing to go so thin in relation to length. I am one of those people who just refuse to carry an axe or hatchet and have adapted my fieldcraft style around my knife....it has to be a stout one.
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If I wanted to compete for a huge market, that'd be more true- truth is that *most* of the time my shop is pretty busy, and the main problem I have is with shows where people expect 3/16 and 1/4 inch thick hollow ground knives for everything.

I don't mind making a 3/16 or even 1/4 inch thick blade at 8+ inches, but I've made *several* very highly performing 1/8 inch thick long blades- and yeah, they do flex a little bit when batoning and chopping- but it's not a detriment. 1/* inch on a medium 4-6 inch blade is not bad- but I haven't had any issues with the 3/32 out in the world. Of course- and this is a big deal- geometry matters! I'm not doing hollow grinds and generally not even spine to edge V grinds, either.

Les said:
IMO, the edge retention is the most important factor, not the thickness and how well it stands up to batoning or abuse.
The Dozier Wilderness gives both. Great edge retention with a thicker spine.
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I sorta agree about batoning and abuse- the thing is that I want a knife to do what I *may* need it to. I've made the decision that crowbar is not in my list of potential abuses, so the combat utility knife concept with the 1/4 inch spine isn't needed. (Which is good, they suck for food prep). Within the realm of what I will consider, I want the knife to handle it ieven if it's not my normal proper tool use style. Batoning is high on the list- and while it's partly personal preference, it does matter.

Edge retention *does* matter a lot. It's also one of those... quirky things much effected by geometry and use, not just hardness and wear resistance.
 
If we gave in to all of the "what ifs" and "mays" we'd have some heavy loads to bear.

Somewhere along the line concessions or compromises have to be made.

What those compromises are, are up to the individual.

Me I want a knife to be a knife, first and foremost.
I've never had to pry anything in the woods and made plenty of fires without batonning or chopping.
Again that's me :)

Oh, and I chose the Dozier ProGuide over the Wilderness.
I think his Elk Hunter may be next, that one is a real sleeper IMHO :)
 
My Sak will handle most of my camp chores but while doing outdoor activities, 90 percent of my knife chores are related to food prep, I prefer at least a five inch blade for that. A good fillet/boning knife works really well for me since I do a lot of fishing. As I have said before, I camped, hunted and fished mor many years carrying a Buck fillet knife and the Buck 110.
 
I just have to post again, to say that this is a really great thread.

And this is the kind of coureous discussion that makes this place worth coming too.

Marion
 
IMO, batoning is not abuse...... if done properly. It can be done with a cheap Mora. What I don't get is the person trying to baton a huge stump, why? Use an axe. Most of my batoning is to get to dry splits if the wood is wet. After the fire is going with a good coal bed, then any splitting is done with an axe.
I have several Dozier knives, including the Wilderness knife and feel they are more then capable of handling any outdoor use that would be called upon.
Scott
 
It is all in the grinds, boys.....

Scott, Andy and a few others can grind a convex that'll make a prybar slice tomatos like a chef's knife.

Stephen Dick did a review of my bushknife which is a 4" blade, just under a 1/4" at the spine. He prepared vegetables, skinned and quartered a squirrel and split wood for a fire with it. In the end he gave me a great review saying that the knife exceeded his expectations. KGD has played with one of them and can attest that they are indeed a chunky bit of steel. I make them almost flat beveled (slight convex) all the way to the spine with a micro convex at the edge.

I have handled Scotts big Tusker and found it to prep food just as well as any thin knife.

This is a great discussion... and restates the fact that its not the tool that makes the man.

Some of us like sports cars... some like big trucks.... while others drive Smart cars..... in the end, they are all just a means to get from one place to another.

Rick
 
Marion David Poff said:
I just have to post again, to say that this is a really great thread.

And this is the kind of coureous discussion that makes this place worth coming too.

Marion
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Well I was about to call all of you ignorant greenhorn noobish fools, but MDP shamed me out of it. That was a joke of course. This has been a great read. Very educational.
 
I am always attracted by my sense of balance, if the blade steel looks too thin for the length and handle thickness or too thick for a small thin handled knife but then I guess stuff like oyster knives most machetes are the exceptions but function trumps form every time. In almost all of my designs and projects I rely on this balance and I have gotten to the point where I am starting to believe that if it looks right it is right. Pretty subjective stuff, right?

Not knives but in these projects balance played a huge part since I was off the chart and on my own in their design. my sense of balance or maybe just pure luck created some very nice sounding instruments. If form follows function then maybe when thats all you got form may give clues to funtion.

I apologize if my examples are too obscure to the discussion, some how in my strange mind form and function are intrinsically involved with each other.

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I might as well throw something in.

While I can guarantee you I am not an expert, I do have a fews years in what works.

Anyone who comes out in my section of the woods with anything less than an axe and fixedblade of some time is almost made fun of. When we run into people who have been in the woods for a day or to who dont have a fire going, who haven't even entertained the thought of building a shelter its almost wonderes their still alive.

your average hiker doesn't know what a ferro rod is, the have never heard of spyderco, coldsteel or Doizer. When you ask what they had planned if a situation like this happened, some say, "thats what you guys are for right?" It can be very frustrating in the least.

When I look at my tool selection, when on duty, or a search, nothing more than a solid folder and multitool are need, most of the time, I could get by with just the tool. About a month a go, we were trolling a river looking for someone, my partner was throwing the hook and as he was bringing it back in, it caught a tree on the bottom, we were headed down stream and the line was taught around his hand, a quick second later the rope was cut and his hand was free.

I didn't need a 1/4 thick knife for that, nor would I have wanted it. But If im in the woods with my self and the ladie, whos to say im not going to be messed up and she needs to do some of the work, yes you ma be proficient with that thin knife, you might have the experience to only need a 2.5" knife, but I can bet the person your with wont, what are they going to do? that 7" 3/16'er comes in handy now.

for the most part however, unless your planning to do things the natural way, make you own shelter, cut a bunch of wood and do all the fun stuff, what else do you need other than a solid knife and a saw?
Your going to have a tent, cook set and the emanates, so why burdon your self if thats not what your going out for?

Over all, I think everyone should be prepared, for the most part people know they need to stop bleeding, they know they need shelter and fire and water, but you get those few people who don't, but thats natural selection I guess.:D
 
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