Today's Question: Can This Correctly Be Called a BUCK 110?

DeSotoSky said:
Well, the question wasn't wether or not "Buck Inc" will warranty a custom knife not made by them. Of course they won't and no one would even ask them to. The question was, can you call it a Buck knife. Yes you can. It was clearly described as a Custom Buck 110. That description means he started with a Buck 110 and made something else out of it.... ie "Custom" It's the appropriate and accurate description. Lets not start splitting hairs here and start defining % original remaining content necessary to define origin of the design. OK....I'm gonna duck now....
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Ok Desoto,
Tell me in your opinion is this a Buck knife?
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jb4570
 
DeSotoSky said:
Well, the question wasn't wether or not "Buck Inc" will warranty a custom knife not made by them. Of course they won't and no one would even ask them to. The question was, can you call it a Buck knife. Yes you can. It was clearly described as a Custom Buck 110. That description means he started with a Buck 110 and made something else out of it.... ie "Custom" It's the appropriate and accurate description. Lets not start splitting hairs here and start defining % original remaining content necessary to define origin of the design. OK....I'm gonna duck now....
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I dont think its splitting hairs to require that a knife has the most basic qualities, such as a Buck blade to call it a Buck. You referenced Yellowhorse, you can look at Leroy remer, Arkansas knives and any other well known custom knife makers, and they all use Buck parts. You can grind, polish, bling or whatever you do to a Buck 110 and put your name on it, its still a customized Buck 110. But when you remove the most basic and most important part ( the Blade ) it just becomes a custom made knife. It cant be called a Buck 110 if it doesnt have the basic characteristics of a 110.

DeSotosky, was that your listing?
 
mbjannusch said:
You can grind, polish, bling or whatever you do to a Buck 110 and put your name on it, its still a customized Buck 110. But when you remove the most basic and most important part ( the Blade ) it just becomes a custom made knife. It cant be called a Buck 110 if it doesnt have the basic characteristics of a 110.

DeSotosky, was that your listing?
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Would it have been Ok then to have described it as a "Custom Knife based on the Buck 110 frame" as opposed to "Custom Buck 110"...?

No, not my listing, don't even own a custom knife. Buck or not. Wouldn't have even looked at the eBay listing if it weren't for all the fun we're having here. I'm just the newbie here throwing mud against the ceiling to see what sticks.....I think it's gonna all come back down on my head....
 
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DeSotoSky said:
Would it have been Ok then to have described it as a "Custom Knife based on the Buck 110 frame" as opposed to "Custom Buck 110"...?

No, not my listing, don't even own a custom knife. Buck or not. As a mere mortal I just collect ordinary factory issued Bucks. Preferably the pocket knives. I just the newbie here throwing mud against the ceiling to see what sticks.....I think it's gonna all come back down on my head.... ;o)
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I only asked because it sounded as though you were starting to become defensive. As for the title of the listing, Custom damascus blade knife would describe it better than Custom Buck 110, and that is just my opinion. I guess the blade of the knife has more to do with the knife more than the handle.
 
Custom Knife based on the Buck 110 frame
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Yes. That would have been correct.

JB45-70 said he thought the price was right.

Are we sure?

I was puzzled by the fact that the Paua slabs from Buck cost $470 for just the slabs alone and this guy was selling the whole knife for $175.

And Paua with an acrylic coating? Is that how it's done? I'd be a little worried about how that would hold up.

I'm also unfamiliar with the maker of that blade. Was the blade marked or unmarked?

Just a few more basic questions on an auction using the Buck name improperly.
 
So just a question here to pick y'all's brains. I've seen 486 folding Bucklite MAX blades in 110 folding hunter frames before. If the blade defines the knife, is that a customized 486 as opposed to a customized 110 then?

This thread piqued my curiosity because my daily carry Vantage is a pro blade but with dymondwood select scales. I'd always considered what I did to be a blade-swap, so I always thought of my knife as a dymondwood select with an s30v blade. Until now, I had never thought to think of it as a handle-swap instead, making it a vantage pro with a dymondwood select handle.

As for my opinion, I don't think that the knife in question can really be called a Buck 110 anymore. It's customized to the point of being an almost totally different animal. Maybe a custom knife using a Buck 110 frame.



Edit: I just thought of this. I was thinking about jarheadz's custom 110 with the carbon fiber handle and debating internally whether that could really be labelled as a custom Buck 110, which lead to this thought: the different models of the buck 110 all use a Buck 110 patterned blade but different handle materials, ie brass and nickel bolsters, wood, paperstone, etc. That would seem to imply that what makes a 110 a 110 is the blade. So IMO the knife in the op post is not a 110. I guess that classifies my EDC as a Vantage Pro with dymondwood scales.
 
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GundaManiac,
The 486 in a 110 frame is just a blade swap, but there both Buck knives, there is nothing customized. Your Vantage is a Vantage, The sufix ie Pro, Avid, Select, is just the charactristics of the Vantage so in that case you could call it whatever you want. IMO I would call it a Pro with diamondwood scale. But this is off the subject a bit. I dont even think you could call the OP a custom with a 110 frame, because there is nothing there to let you know that is a Buck 110 frame. That thing could be from China, who knows... I've seen great reproductions.
 
BG,

Thanks for the wonderful thread you have going here. Excellent food for thought!

Desoto....I will never make you duck and there is no issues with mud on the wall. As the saying goes...."I can't see the forest through all these trees". Some times we humans don't all think the same.....thank the good lord for that!

The Buck factory has the term Custom Shop; that shop makes custom Buck 110's to order. You can pick the frame, handle material, and the blade, from the limited supply of materials they offer. When one is ordered you get a factory custom Buck 110. The Buck factory also makes limited edition and special order knives. I also consider these as custom Buck knives.

Now if someone other than the Buck factory takes a Buck factory knife (handle and blade) and modifies it; it is now a customized buck knife. If someone takes a part of a Buck factory knife (handle or blade) and makes a new knife; it is now a custom made knife with buck parts; it is not a Buck knife any more (I call them FrankenBucks). That is just the way I see it, my opinion; your mileage may vary!

FYI
FrankenBuck can also be made by taking parts from other factory made Buck knives and swaping parts. Now the fun with this term; there are Buck factory made FrankenBucks.
Brother Jimbo sent me a FarnkenBuck AlphaBravo
BuckWH4FCustom3.jpg

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jb4570
 
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So the problem with calling the knife a custom with a Buck 110 frame is that there are no marks distinguishing it as an authentic Buck 110 frame? As far as I know, the standard Buck 110 frame has no markings at all to distinguish it as authentic Buck.

If, for instance, I took a factory Buck 110, then put a non Buck blade in it, and I told someone (in conversation, not in the context of selling or collecting) that my knife was a customized knife with a Buck 110 frame would that be untrue? I don't see why a knife with a specific part can't be called a knife with a specific part, eg a knife with a Buck 110 frame, if that is what it is.

Thus, I see the problem with labeling the knife in the op as a Buck 110, but I don't see a problem with calling the knife a custom knife with a Buck 110 frame, if that actually is what it is. However, if the problem is just that proof is needed in the context of advertising the knife for sale or collecting, then I agree that the knife shouldn't have the Buck or 110 names associated with it any way.

In other words, I see no problem calling it a custom knife with a Buck 110 frame (if that's true) in conversation, but I see a potential problem with using the Buck or 110 names to advertise the knife for sale purposes.

As far as Jarheadz's knife goes, I see how it could be considered a custom knife with a 110 blade, or a rehandled 110. If his knife is called into question, then that would also call into question all the acrylic/polycarbonate handled 110s that allow you to see the internal workings (very cool knives btw). Would those also be custom knives with 110 handles or just rehandled 110s?

Again, I don't mean for any of my post to sound confrontational or anything. I just find this discussion to be really interesting, kind of like the question of how many parts must be replaced on an item before it can no longer be considered to be the same item any more.



Edit: I can see someone already commented about Jarheadz's knife. I agree, this all seems to be a matter of opinions and opinions vary.
 
Well, since it's been decided that only the blade matters...
...here for your consideration is a Buck 428...

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"CUSTOMIZED" with softwood handles, seashell and coral applique, and fileworked frame.
Any bidders?
 
GundaManiac said:
So the problem with calling the knife a custom with a Buck 110 frame is that there are no marks distinguishing it as an authentic Buck 110 frame? As far as I know, the standard Buck 110 frame has no markings at all to distinguish it as authentic Buck.

If, for instance, I took a factory Buck 110, then put a non Buck blade in it, and I told someone (in conversation, not in the context of selling or collecting) that my knife was a customized knife with a Buck 110 frame would that be untrue? I don't see why a knife with a specific part can't be called a knife with a specific part, eg a knife with a Buck 110 frame, if that is what it is.

Thus, I see the problem with labeling the knife in the op as a Buck 110, but I don't see a problem with calling the knife a custom knife with a Buck 110 frame, if that actually is what it is. However, if the problem is just that proof is needed in the context of advertising the knife for sale or collecting, then I agree that the knife shouldn't have the Buck or 110 names associated with it any way.

In other words, I see no problem calling it a custom knife with a Buck 110 frame (if that's true) in conversation, but I see a potential problem with using the Buck or 110 names to advertise the knife for sale purposes.

As far as Jarheadz's knife goes, I see how it could be considered a custom knife with a 110 blade, or a rehandled 110. If his knife is called into question, then that would also call into question all the acrylic/polycarbonate handled 110s that allow you to see the internal workings (very cool knives btw). Would those also be custom knives with 110 handles or just rehandled 110s?

Again, I don't mean for any of my post to sound confrontational or anything. I just find this discussion to be really interesting, kind of like the question of how many parts must be replaced on an item before it can no longer be considered to be the same item any more.



Edit: I can see someone already commented about Jarheadz's knife. I agree, this all seems to be a matter of opinions and opinions vary.
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Gmaniac,

I agree 100% with your thoughts on this subject:thumbup:
jb4570
 
Wow, this thread has been interesting and has had many turns. I guess it all depends on the context in which the terms are used. I dont think it's apporiate to use a Company Name in order to validate a sales listing, or misreperesent an item in order to make more money. But if you arn't selling the item you can call it what ever you want in conversation.
 
DeSotoSky said:
http://www.alabamadamascussteel.com/servlet/StoreFront
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So, was this the maker of the blade? How do we know that? I can't see any stamp on the blade.

What about the acrylic? The low-cost Paua? I truly don't want to pick on the seller (who's probably an ok guy and did show good form by removing the auction) but I think there's a lot more story to this auction and it would be nice if we could hear the whole story.

Then maybe we could really make a really accurate assessment.
 
Bg
I dont think there is any question about that knife. It was misrepresented, but as you can see this thread has morphed into something alot bigger. I think you would aggree with what has been said here for the most part, no?
 
I do agree with most of what has been said.

I'm thinking that the way the knife was listed may have been an honest mistake.

But there are some other questions that still bother me.
 
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