Tom Brown Jr Survival classes?

Based in my own experiences as a vocational nature photographer, my impression when I read his writing is: He tells you everything he knows, and more. I would guess the same would likely be true of his classes.
 
Ridge Walker....

As I said, I cannot prove you wrong. I cannot prove that Rick or Grandfather ever existed, therefore, I make no claim that they do. You however, seem rather absolute in your willingness to call him a fake. You reference the Apache "community". Do you mean the Native American anti-cultural appropriation organization, New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans? Those are the folks trying to defame TBJ. Funny how they too are shrouded in controversy. I put little weight in something until I look at all the information and research the source of said information. If it is inconclusive and arbitrary, I do not try to pass it off as truth. Even if I form my own opinions, they are just that, and I present them as such.

Toms brother, Dr. Jim Brown, the Dean of Science, Engineering, Health Sciences and Human Performance and former President and Chairman of the Board of the New Jersey Public Health Association confirms Tom Brown's biography within his own, but does not provide any evidence outside of his testimony. That's quite a reputation to put at stake for your brother's make believe stories.

I found a few references to Apache vision quests including a paper written by Charles S. Brant in the Southwestern Journal of Anthropology, Vol. 9, No. 2 , pp. 195-202 Published by: University of New Mexico

... he must have been on TBJ's payroll, too (Summer, 1953)


Rick
 
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Seeking education is never a bad thing IMO. Yes, There are alot of other schools. Some might be better then Toms, some not. Just cause you dont go to Harvard doesnt mean there isnt educational value at at state schools.

Ive never been to any of Toms classes, but I do own and have read several of his books. I liked them.

If you want to go, go. Then draw your own conclusions. If he is charging what he charges, and people are lining up to attend, then they cant be all that bad. Like everything else, you cant make everyone happy. People get ticked off at McDonalds, but they seem to be still doing ok.
 
Emphasiski said:
Has anyone taken any of his classes? If so, what did you think? Worth the $?
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Try Earth Walk Northwest in Issaquah WA. Run by Frank & Karen Sherwood. Classes are great, Frank & Karen are much nicer and they were both head instructors for Tracker school for over 15 years. Don't have to drive/fly as far and class prices are much better. Their philosophy is to learn how to LIVE in the wood rather than just survive.

http://www.earthwalknorthwest.com/

Hope this helps,

Ric
 
People seem to put a lot of emphasis on Tom Browns history and spiritual approach. What I look for is if the information being sought is being presented, and having taken several courses, Mr Browns information on what I am looking for is sound and plentiful for the price paid. The rest is just the package it is presented in.

Even if his history is questionable, his curriculum is well thought out. For myself, I plan to attend some other schools for more specific training, and to expose myself to other perspectives.
 
I have taken three Tom Brown Courses, I really liked them, and I learned alot. I don't believe every story Tom tells, but each story helps to send his messages and makes his classes different. I would go again.

Ron
 
Some people, as in Martial Arts, are attracted to the spiritual aspects or some cultural aspects of "Survivalism." When I was intensely interested in Martial Arts as a child, it was because I didn't want my ass kicked anymore. I didn't care about much of anything else. I didn't care about belts or trophies or tea ceremonies or why we really shouldn't have dropped the bomb on the Japanese and unagi, kudasai. Same goes for Survivalism. In fact, real Martial Arts and "Survivalism" were always synonymous to me. All about saving my life or someone else's.

What I don't need is a guy with a Hummer preaching to me about certain things. Don't have anything against SUVs...just like Al Gore, don't need him telling me about air pollution when he is flying all over the place, etc. Hypocrisy, carries a large stench to me.

When I read stuff like that and I encounter the spiritual aspects of the book, I tend to lift one cheek up and let loose a terrific imaginary ripper. I just don't care about it and I find it incredibly odd that others are taken in by it. I guess he needs a schtick. Most of them do.
 
...And both of us entered into the experience with an "absorb what is useful and discard what's not," JKD-conceptual-type attitude. Sure there were moments of brilliance and moments of utter wierdness, but overall, it will go down as one of the most interesting and memorable experiences of my life.

I'm not big on anyone shoving spirituality down anyone's throat, and while there was definitely an omnipresent spiritual component, Tom was the only one who really approached it. The other instructors insinuated that, like prayer in school, they did not want to enter into discussions in that realm, and rather wanted to stick to the facts. They invited folks to take higher level courses aimed at spirituality if that was their interest and desire.

Tom taught all of the tracking courses at my Standard Course, as well as some peripheral courses at different points. I must say that I was amazed at the intensity of the courses overall, which began at right after breakfast around 7:30am and ran up to 11:00pm and later, Sunday night through the following Saturday morning.

There were definite traces of arrogance and "holier than thou" self-righteousness here and there that I picked up on from a few folks, but I didn't care. This kinda stuff was not useful to me, so I discarded it!

Sure, I'm as skeptical as the next person about stuff mentioned in this thread already, but again, deep down, I really don't care. It did not devalue any of the useful information acquired, so I let it roll off. There were plenty of mushminds that hung on Tom's every word, but heck, you see that kinda thing everywhere you go these days. It creeped me out a little at times, being miles deep in the barrens with a few of these mushminded folks, but at those times I simply remembered that there were worse things out there than the occasional wierdness, or the Jersey Devil... Me!

To address the OP's question, overall, it was worth it for me. Would I take more classes if I had the time, yes. It beat the crap out of using a week's worth of vacation sitting on a beach somewhere. I learned a lot, which I still practice and study to augment as much as I can, but I realize also that there are choices out there for folks seeking this type of instruction. Choices that do not involve the Tracker School's spirituality, but then again, folks could be into a lot worse stuff, and frankly, if at worst it is a cult of folks who wanna save the planet through educating others, hey, I'm ok with that too.

Professor.
 
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I totally agree with you, Don but would like to add...

I think we all need a schtick. Individuality is a very important thing. It is virtually impossible to avoid them. The fact that you say you were not interested in schticks is yours... lol. (yeah I'm reachin')

But seriously, when used as a buffer or a learning tool, they serve a purpose. Tom's approach to friction fire is a good example. He presents it as a ceremony and highlights each aspect as having spiritual significance. For some it is easier to remember that way... not everybody thinks with an engineering/physics/chemistry mind. In the end, a firedrill is a firedrill... spirituallity or not.

When what you teach revolves around the schtick, then there is something wrong. If Tom is ever irrefutably proven to have made up Grandfather and Rick, then all his philosophy, grandfather and spirituality classes are belly up. You can say that the folks who payed for these classes got something out of it... but it is not that easy. A Grandthather class is not a Grandfather class.... if he never existed.

I liked his classes and never put too much into the spirituallity. If he is a fraud, NOTHING changes for me. I still learned a tonne of important skills. Tom packs more info into one week than most other courses... and it sticks with you. His cirriculum is well thought out and flows nicely. It's up to you to practice when you get home. Live it, then own it.



Rick
 
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Right on, Rick. I think we're of somewhat like minds on this topic, though I didn't go so far as to think about the implications of the higher level courses and their basis around folks whose very existence is questionable. I agree with you on that point also.

At any rate, like I said before, it beat the snot outta sitting comfortably numb on a beach. One thing that Tom said that I 100% agree with was that (and I'm paraphrasing here), of all the experiences you'll have in your lifetime, the ones that you'll remember most vividly are the ones where you were not necessarily comfortable. Curious.

Professor.
 
To: Rick and The Professor...

I don't really see anything to disagree with at all. I also agree that having no schtick is schtick, however it might be spelled. Well, it can be schtick. My Brother knows a very high level student of Tom Brown's and he was impressed, that says something to me. But if I am to believe the good about him (TB) from that source, and there is plenty of good from the source, then I also have to give some weight to the bad and the bad is quite ugly.

I have had people slander and defame me, so I will leave it at that. It's already well known and written about quite a bit, I don't have to repeat it about him. And...he's not the only one in this game that has more issues than Scientific American!

The older I get, the more wise my Dad and Benjamin Franklin have become.

Franklin said once, "Men with few vices have few virtues."

I think that mirrors my life's experience as well.
 
If I am paying $900 for a survival course I want every penny of that to be hard-physical survival facts, not unproven spirituality. Go to church and get religion for free, no need to pay $900 for some guy to talk to you.

Modern spirituality is a sham, all these people offering course on talking and nothing on making. Making stuff is what got us where we are, not talking about spirits.
 
SirJames said:
If I am paying $900 for a survival course I want every penny of that to be hard-physical survival facts, not unproven spirituality. Go to church and get religion for free, no need to pay $900 for some guy to talk to you.

Modern spirituality is a sham, all these people offering course on talking and nothing on making. Making stuff is what got us where we are, not talking about spirits.
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That's absolutely true and I agree with you. I also think that Tom Brown is incredibly well known and someone would have to be a moron to not know what they are getting into with him. Which means, you are going to get the spirituality even if you don't like it and if you take the course and the Dude talks about The Great Spirit or The Great Pumpkin, you, like the fat man at The All You Can Eat Shoney's Breakfast Buffet, have no reason to complain. You know you're going to the damned Shoney's to start with, on your third plate, you don't really have a right to get angry and say the food sucks, you decided to go to Shoney's. (joke, well, a lot of that is true!) :D
 
Don, the very same can be said of the Country Cookin' chain of restaurants.

Enter the Buffet.

If you know good and well what you're in for, you're better off by far, sneezeguards et al.

Professor.
 
I'm not really taking sides on this, one way or another. I read all his books and I'm the richer for it, but there's no way I'd pay that kind of money for any survival course.

I find it noteworthy that most of the people deriding him, have never taken any of his courses, and most that have, aren't complaining.

Doc
 
Well, as far as price goes, it's not the cheapest and it's not the most expensive. Like I said, it's right inline with other schools.

Beginner courses...

Midwest Native Skills - $625 (6day basic survival)
Boulder Outdoor Survival School - $1395 (7day, basic primitive living course)
Tracker School - $800 (7day, Standard)
Wilderness Learning Center - $870 (6day, Basic Survival)
Peak Survival - $240 (3day, introductory)
Pathfinder School - $200 (3day, basic)
 
I feel sorry for the Native Americans who have to watch as Culture Vultures like Tom Brown Jr, a white man, rips off their spirituality and sells it for a Hummer and a Rolex. Native Americans say first the white man stole their land now they are stealing their religion.

In my opinion Tom Brown has no right selling Native American religion. I think his unsubstatiated and inaccurate claims about Apache spiritual practices and initiation are disgustingly self serving and should be an embarrasment to white people.
 
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