I don't know Don. I've had great success learning from both approaches - self-taught via reading books/internet interactions ect. as well as personal instruction. In most cases, the personal instruction was just direct interaction with other forum members like Doc Canada or Rick. In a few cases it was more formalized workshops like my recent 1/2 day class with George Hedgepeth. I think there is value in both forms of learning and different people will respond to different instructional styles very individualistically.
Part of that is hitting on what I was referring to in my last post as "reinforcement."
I don't really want to make it a binary argument between the autodidactic and the spoonfed individual except to say that there are a lot of people who have to be spoonfed because they are not only looking for knowledge, they are looking for other things as well. That is part of the attraction of a Tom Brown.
I am autodidactic,
to a degree, but even I had a
mentor and that was my Dad. My Dad put me on the road to be able to learn how to extract knowledge from books and other sources. That's why I placed some caveats in there, you have to be able to read and you have to be able to comprehend what you read and then you have to go and do it.
Some people need a bit more than that and I am not indicting, condemning or criticizing that at all. Sometimes I need that, too.
You are 100% correct that different people respond to different styles but a lot of people that have to go to these schools and Gurus are doing so for far different reasons than simply learning the mechanics, they are searching for other things. Not all of them, but I would say most of them are.
For example, as an academic, I am very comfortable with reading things in a book and translating that to practical application (unless its knots and then I'm screwed). A lot of people aren't.
That's entirely true! Hell, I've learned a couple good fishing knots but I think what I want to say right now is, I didn't spend $875.00 to be presented with a split piece of log to make my bowl out of (how would that log be split like that in a survival situation where you had nothing, eh? That's the SCHTICK! "Make your bowl," and they hand you half a log...) and then I eat Dinty Moore Beef Stew. I like Dinty Moore, but...
Do you know what I mean?
Also, reading about skills and practicing skills are completely different things. I just read Larry Dean Olsen's book in 2 hours but that doesn't mean I absorbed everything he said nor does it mean I can do 1/4 of what his book outlines.
And like the Martial Arts Instructor who knows the secrets, he or she will leak them out over a long period of time if you give them the money.
Introductory, Basic, Intermediate, Advanced, Super-Advanced, ande here is the Super-Duper Advanced Class for those that have taken all of the rest of my classes...how much is enough? Until the guy has a large house in an exclusive community, two SUVs, largest in class and kids going to exclusive private schools?
I know that sounds very critical of Tom Brown, what I am trying to say is, you don't need to purchase all of that instruction.
A newby spending 100% of their time on the internet reading about petty arguments of trivial details isn't necessary going to grow in their skill and knowledge base.
I understand that all too well, unfortunately, it is a Strawman Argument. It's simply not what I am saying. You just set up a dynamic that I am totally disinterested in and I'm not talking about at all. Although the observation might very well be valid to other people.
Only those few who are motivated enough to get off their butts and practice, build muscle memory for some techniques and apply their knowledge under real circumstances are the ones learning. Many people don't have the discipline to do this or to challenge themselves under unfavorable conditions.
I see a lot of people doing that in this very forum.
Muscle memory for techniques? I think the people far more learned than I have discarded that in favor of "Familiar Task Transfer," but that's another story.
Formalized instruction has a major advantage in that the student actively commits time, physical exertion and effort into the learning process. The simple fact that you shelled out $800 for a week and set aside time-off from work/family to engage in training is a major focusing act that will to some extent ensure your attention and willingness to make a sincere effort mentally and physically.
If that is what you have to do in order to motivate yourself, I am glad you have the disposable income to do so. I do not nor have I ever had that kind of disposable income and I guarantee you I am not going to die out in the woods because I didn't.
I think as an academic, you have become myopic and you overvalue education you have to pay in order to receive. :::shrug::: That's not meant to sound overly-harsh but I am fairly certain it will come across that way. A lot of highly educated people, teachers, etc., feel that way. That's because they paid a lot for their other education. We're not talking nuclear medicine here.
There also often seems to be a connotation that anybody who charges for instructions is just in it for the money. While this could be the case for some individuals, it is kind of looney to make blanket statements about the motivations of anybody who chooses to apply professional training as a means of making a living.
Oh, the money is paid but a lot of it is also ego. The pure altruist is a more rare bird than most people think.
I teach university students and get a check for it. Should I feel guilty about that?
I don't know. I know I have a close friend who has a Bachelor's Degree from a University and she doesn't know a damned thing about Psychology but she can tell you a lot about lesbian porn because her Professor was a lesbian who tried to work in lesbian porn into every discussion of abnormal psychology. She should feel guilty about receiving a check for what she does. Should you? I would reckon not as I have read enough of your writing.
Is my course content invalid because of it?
Not because of it but you might not be giving value for value, either. I have no idea. Again, I don't think so. You seem like a pretty bright fella to me and don't appear to be a malignant narcissist.
Survival instructors are in the same camp, albeit, professional accreditation is not standardized. Still, there are certain folks who can make a case for their experience and others who can't. Like university profs, I also suspect that there are certain folks who might not be as skilled in what they are instructing as others but make great teachers and spend a real effort to develop an appropriate curriculum and to foster student motivation. A brilliant professor who can't reach his student is a failure even if they are publishing in the best journals and bringing in the research funds.
In the end, who do you want instructing you? Somebody who can successfully teach you the skills you want to learn and guide you through the application of those skills or somebody who is a war hero or climbed Mount Everest? Instructors get into the business, yes to make money, but there are certainly other motivations. Tom Brown might be the only one I know who makes a significant income from his business. I'm not sure that in itself is a rationale for questioning his ability to provide valid instruction.
Anyhow, a rather long rant, but I for one am glad that there are reputable survival schools available to me to extend my experience. I am glad there are generous people whose love of bushcraft motivates them to teach others skills free of charge on their own terms and time schedule. I am glad there are places like W&SS where I can bounce ideas off of and benefit from the creative thinking generated by 100's of experienced outdoors enthusiasts. Its all good man!
I think you are an academic through-and-through and if you had your way, you would have to have a degree to teach this stuff. Maybe I am wrong. Even if you don't, that is the argument you are making.
I'm sorry, don't agree. Massad Ayoob once said that the best thing about the Glock is it is easy to shoot. He then said that the worst thing about the Glock is, it is easy to shoot.
That is the way I feel about the Internet. I also feel that way about colleges. It's a total business now Dude. Colleges, not out of altruism but out of greed, have flooded the market with so many people with useless degrees, non-degreed people like myself are faced with the dilemma of going into great debt, which you probably don't have a problem with, and obtaining one to keep what is basically a high school education job. A little far afield, but I'm just not a fan, to say the least, of the world you advocate and are injecting into the "survival world."
