Tool steel vs. Stainless for bushcraft/survival

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pikey30

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Sep 9, 2004
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My main outdoor knives are a simonich salish, a few Mora’s and my northstar. The northstar is by far my favorite. I frequently backpack and when I do I carry a stainless Mora. I am afraid to pack my northstar. I only like to pack stainless. It seems that everybody is using tool steel for bushcraft and survival knives, I understand the advantages but aren’t their drawbacks to having to maintaining your blade to keep it from tarnishing? Does keeping your blade oiled get in the way of using it for food prep? What about leaving scent ? How often do you have to re-oil and would this present a problem in a long term survival situation ? What about accidentally depositing some lubrication in the bottom of a spindle or hand drill? Basically, I am just wondering the drawbacks to a good stainless like s30v compared to tool steel in terms of survival/buschraft.
 
but aren’t their drawbacks to having to maintaining your blade to keep it from tarnishing?

What is your motivation to keep it from tarnishing? If it is an asthetics obstacle then stay with stainless. Phyically it doesn't pose a problem. A stable oxide layer will have some passivating properties in terms of corrosion.

Of course among the alloyed carbon steels the corrosion resistance is different. With many of them, if you can keep contact with moisture under control, then corrosion shouldn't be a deal breaker.
 
well, as far as I know, I personaly use stainless the most. Weather or not carbon is better, you going to get alot of arguing. If you dont want to have to care for a knife, then stainless is going to be the knife. I personaly like stainless over carbon, for the fact if I have a leather sheath, or anything else I dont have to worry about my knife rusting while in its sheath. Also many times out of ten, im canoing, or around water so again another advantage for me while in the woods. The only think I dont like about stainless steels is that their harder to sharpen, which can be problem while in the bush. I have been using my grohamnn #4 stainless for about a week now and I love it. Again the sharpening can be problemsome, but with knives that are harder to sharpen , they also stay sharper longer. I dont let my knvies get so dull the dont cut either, which I think helps in the long run.

Now, even with my carbon steel knives, I dont think Ive ever oiled them. If you wipe them off good and keep the egde clean, you dont have to worrie about rusting, but patina makes a nice look to a knife, again its a personal preferance.
 
We went through a whole thread(s) here recently about how to deliberately stain and tarnish and patinate our carbon blades. Search the archives for mustard patina and mustard trick.

I oil my blades but wipe them dry and wouldn't worry much about spending a couple of days in the woods without maintaining them, except to sharpen and wipe them dry after use.
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As far as getting a little oil in my food, well I've ingested a lot worse things than that ;)
 
Coldwood said:
We went through a whole thread(s) here recently about how to deliberately stain and tarnish and patinate our carbon blades. Search the archives for mustard patina and mustard trick.

I oil my blades but wipe them dry and wouldn't worry much about spending a couple of days in the woods without maintaining them, except to sharpen and wipe them dry after use.
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As far as getting a little oil in my food, well I've ingested a lot worse things than that ;)
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Agreed. Like Coldwood, I don't worry about what my blade looks like after a few days in the woods. In fact, even with my 1095 Mountain Man, I never did much more that keep it sharp, and wipe it clean after use. I personally feel the performance I get out of tool/carbon steels outweigh a little extra maintenance IMHO;)
 
Patina comes with carbon - if you don't like it, you have to learn to. The care factor is overblown - I agree with everyone, just keep the knife and sheath dry. I'm lucky to have my father's boyhood fixed blade, and I doubt it ever saw oil in it's 70 or so years. It has a beautiful patina, and never had a speck of rust. My Northstar hasn't stained much; D2 is pretty close to stainless.
If you opt for stainless, I'd stay with "standard" steels, like Buck's 420 (above average) and Grohmann's 440. The super steels (S30V and such) can be tough to sharpen, particularly in the bush.
 
Last month I purchased 7 plastic moras. Different models. Different steels.

I also like a nice patina, although I'm not sure a plastic knife will ever have character. In any case, I usually dip my carbon knives in "etching fluid" (purchased from Radio Shack) for an instant even patina. The shiny blade of the stainless mora was bothering me, so I thought I'd give it a try. I left it in the fluid for about a minute. It came out a a weird brownish gray. After buffing with steel wool, though, it looks just like a regular ol' patina blade. The advantages of stainless with the look of used carbon.

BTW, from experience, I can also say that etching fluid works great for D2, another "stainless" steel.

As to the thread. I like carbon for around the house, or maybe a knife I'll keep in a pack, but for a knife thats carried on a belt or in a pocket, I want a good stainless. If you're active (where I live) you have to deal with sweat and rain.
 
I also like a nice patina on my carbon blades and use them in the field. However, most of the time, I'm trekking along the river or down by the ocean and the 12c27 does a great job.
 
The two camp knives I use the most are both 5160. One made by me and a HI Khukuri. I don't clean them everytime I cut something with them. I only clean them when I get home before I put them away using WD40 and steel wool. Same thing I would do with a stainless knife. You don't need to worry about getting oil on your food because you don't need to keep the knife oiled at all times, just when you store it and even then it's optional. You may worry about getting dirt on your food but stainless knives get dirty just the same. Don't worry too much about the staining. I think some people are just too concious about this and they should not make such a big deal. We're talking about user knives and not safe queens so don't baby your knives too so much. They'll be fine. I don't worry about my gardening hoes and shovels getting dirty and I don't oil them ever Remember people have used simple steels for cutting tools LONG before stainless.
 
S30V steel is great. D2, A2, 1095 are also great. They are not hard to keep up. Use veg oil as your lubricant if you are worried about using it for food prep. Put a little veg oil on a cotton rag and keep it in a zip lock. Like the others have said, you still have to keep the dirt off and a little patina doesn't hurt anything. I've got a few Moore Maker slipjoints with a patina. I have used them on the farm for many years now and I haven't used any (that means not one drop) of oil on them. they remain unchanged as far as corrosion goes, but they are very sharp and hold the edge well. Don't worry about tool steels. Think of it like this, when was the last time you heard someone had a problem with survival because their knife was too rusty to work?
 
For reasons already explained by others, I'm just going to say that in my world, a stainless knife's place is in the kitchen. If Buck and Leatherman made my favorite EDC folders with carbon steel blades, I'd replace 'em.
 
Before moving out, rub some chapstick on your blade if you are afraid of rust, or Renaissance wax if you are fancy. Other than that, don't worry 'bout it. Centuries of warfare and field use with plain carbon blades proves a little rust is not a problem. Stainless blades will just chip out or simply break if you ask too much of them beyond slicing soft material.
 
Real world example. I have a 20+ year old Ontario machete. 1095 Carbon steel.
It has been mistakenly left in the woods and rained on, it has fallen out of a garden cart and layed on the lawn for week to 10 days at a time.
It has had tree and vine resin all over it for 6 months at a time.
I have even cut sod with it. :eek:

Nothing some light oil and fine steel wool wouldn't take right off.
It has No pitting, No real rust damage. :thumbup:

Carbon steels contain Chromium and other good metals which do help "resist" corrosion. In a jungle or along the seashore you may have long term problems, but I seriously don't believe many of us are going to have good quality Carbon blades rusting from within their sheaths.

Check your usage. If you are a fishing guide, whitewater rafter, near salt water, or in extremely humid conditions constantly, then it might be somewhat of a concern. Otherwise, I think modern Carbon steels are relatively corrosion resistant.

Lastly, if it is a carbon steel camp knife, subject to being used around food, simply substitute vegetable oil, olive oil, or the like, for wiping it down. Tastes better than Wd40. :barf:

Carbon steel rocks. :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
I cary both a carbon and stainless in the bush.for light bush it's a F1 and my ka-bar.(1095).for heavy bush and camping it's my tracker and S1.
 
I'm always amazed that somebody would think that a carbon blade is going to rust away on them before they can get back to civilization. The rust thing is sooo overblown.

Think of this, once upon a time the Vikings sailed open boats across a thousand miles of ocean to Greenland. Just as the Spanish sailed thier galleons to the new world, and they all took thier carbon steel knives, swords, axes, pikes, daggers, with them. All the tools survived the trip because the owners did something in this sterile plastic world that seems to be unthinkable. The took care of thier tools. The old mountain men did'nt have the green river skinning knives rust away, nor thier Hawken rifles.

Let it stain into a nice patina and learn to appretiate a nice grey blade.
 
"Mineral oil," sold in all drug departments and sold scented as "baby oil," is food grade and an excellent protectant.

I join the crowd. Patina is evidence of great times in the woods. :thumbup:
 
jackknife said:
I'm always amazed that somebody would think that a carbon blade is going to rust away on them before they can get back to civilization. The rust thing is sooo overblown.
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I sooo agree with that. Every time that there is a post in general regarding stainless vs. carbon, someone comes up with the "if you're not constantly looking after your blades they will develop rust"

As mentioned above, I have never done anything besides keep them (carbon blades) sharp and wipe them down after use. Patina has formed, but I like that.

In my experience I have never done anything different with my carbon blades over my stainless other than spend more time over the hone to put an edge on them. Just my experience of course.
 
One point that hasn't been mentioned in favor of carbon steel ( the right carbon steel!) is the ability to strike a spark into tinder for lighting a fire. It gives you one more option that stainless ( and other high alloy content tool steels) can't provide.
 
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