Tool steel vs. Stainless for bushcraft/survival

mtnsct said:
One point that hasn't been mentioned in favor of carbon steel ( the right carbon steel!) is the ability to strike a spark into tinder for lighting a fire. It gives you one more option that stainless ( and other high alloy content tool steels) can't provide.
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Good point. Interestingly, the flint strikes a spark (molten steel) from the steel. The characteristics of stainless and highly alloyed steels gets in the way of that process.
 
If you can keep your firearm from rusting away to nothing you can certainly manage to do the same for your knife.
:D
 
Ebbtide said:
If you can keep your firearm from rusting away to nothing you can certainly manage to do the same for your knife.
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They are usually not the same metals and you generally don't expose them to the same corrosive agents, fruit juices, etc. . Nor do they suffer the constant burnishing in use as does a knife.

kel_aa said:
What is your motivation to keep it from tarnishing?
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When the blade oxidizes so does the edge, hence knives which patina rapidly have poor edge retention in such enviroments. This is usually compensated for by ease of sharpening, toughness, cost, etc. .

-Cliff
 
I have many rifles whose working "edges" were repeatedly exposed to no less a substance than mercury as they were "burnished" by jacketed bullets being pushed across them by superheated gases. They survived with relatively sharp "edges" (otherwise I would not have purchased them). They survived in this excellent working condition (some in tropical climes) due to the simple expedient of their being cleaned and oiled promptly after use. Those not so maintained ended up pitted and otherwise corroded.

GO THOU AND DO LIKEWISE (Imagine booming voice. :p ).



Not that I am above using modern primers and SS barrels.
 
Thomas Linton said:
They survived in this excellent working condition (some in tropical climes) due to the simple expedient of their being cleaned and oiled promptly after use.
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It is similar with knives, any use will burnish off any protectant. I have even tried heavy foam sprays intended for automotive rust protection, a few minutes of cutting light vegetation (grasses not woods) and the blades would rust just as if there was never any protectant. For knives, rinse them with clean water and dry and use a protectant when possible.

-Cliff
 
Cliff said:
When the blade oxidizes so does the edge, hence knives which patina rapidly have poor edge retention in such enviroments. This is usually compensated for by ease of sharpening, toughness, cost, etc. .
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That is an interesting perspective. I have used an Opinel in the kitchen at times and have also often used it as a table knife, sitting down with it for an hour or two. I wouldn't call such applications highly sharpness sensitive, so I guess I have never noticed the edge corrosion as a significant factor. As far as overall corrosion, the knife patinas (or did long ago and is now stable) and darker bluish/greyish spots do develop.
 
I've got a Northstar. It's got some spots on it. Almost all my knives have got corrosion on them at one point or another.

Usually when I get them home I use a little fiine steel wool, or 1500 grit or higher sandpaper, and then finish them off with this little buffing wheel and polishing compound on my drill press.

The most corrosion I have experienced is after cutting food. Acid fruit. Anything salty. Have to really work on cleaning off the blade. Just cutting wood and stuff not so much.

The last time I went backpacking I had a little silicone gun cloth. It seemed to work well not leave much residue. If I cut acid or salty stuff I'd rinse the blade off a little then dry it then wipe it.

A little plastic ziplock with 1 dry paper towel and 1 with olive oil on it is good too:thumbup:

But yeah if I really was into survival I'd go for the stainless. Even though I much prefer carbon steel if you were stuck with just a knife or had to take minimal stuff why fool with what I do to prevent rust? Also like Cliff said why risk corrosion screwing up the edge if you were in a survival situation?

I'd take the Fallkniven. It takes and keeps an edge nearly as well as carbon, and I don't know about flint but it is probably the best of any knife I have tried as far as sparking a firesteel;)
 
hollowdweller said:
\I'd take the Fallkniven.
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As hollowdweller mentioned Fallkniven makes great knives. I MUCH prefer a carbon blade over stainelss.... but if I was going to compromise, it would be with the F1. Fallkniven is not only a premier outdoor knife, they do VG10 right. :thumbup:
 
Proper maintence will keep both servicable.
Maintaining your firearm is just about the same as maintaining your knife.
That was the point.
A little TLC.
The same TLC that one would use for their firearm.
Keep it dry.
Keep it oiled.
Don't put it away wet.

Just don't sharpen your gun.
Or chop cinderblocks with it.
Shoot the cinderblocks...it's much more fun
 
I prefer stainless for most of my knives for a few reasons...


1) I don't need to worry so much about rust.
2) I don't like the metalic taste of carbon blades.
 
I have a slightly different take to the problem than most.What I do is carry a stainless combo when hiking during the wetter months and then switch to a carbon combo during the drier months.
I kind of did this instinctively and have never given it too much thought.
I do agree with most here though and believe that if you dry your blades off after use and store them out of their sheaths you will have little to worry about even with carbon blades !
 
tarmix101 said:
As hollowdweller mentioned Fallkniven makes great knives. I MUCH prefer a carbon blade over stainelss.... but if I was going to compromise, it would be with the F1. Fallkniven is not only a premier outdoor knife, they do VG10 right. :thumbup:
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I don't really like thick knives. I don't really like stainless. I don't like rubber handles. But I love the F1.

The utilitarian shape to the blade. Stainless that is just a hair harder to sharpen and keep sharp than carbon. NO STUPID CHOIL NOTCH:D Ricasso very small so you can get good leverage. Great knife.

I usually take a carbon steel backpacking or camping unless it's very wet. However in my woods at home and doing farm chores, day hikes it's almost always the F1.
 
Ebbtide said:
Maintaining your firearm is just about the same as maintaining your knife.
That was the point.
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Yes and it was wrong as I pointed out for several reasons, the main ones being the materials are not the same nor the enviroments.

kel_aa said:
I wouldn't call such applications highly sharpness sensitive, so I guess I have never noticed the edge corrosion as a significant factor.
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I have long preferred low carbide (non-stainless) steels for kitchen knives, and put up with the frequent sharpening because of the ease of sharpening and general ability to take a fine edge. My specific purpose kitchen knives are very thin/acute at the edge and are very sharp, they never fall below shaving because I want to cut with no slippage. When cutting onions and such with those knives you can see the edge discolor immediately in steels like O1 and this will directly effect the edge obviously. For such applications then steels like AEB-L at 65/67 HRC are optimal.

-Cliff
 
hollowdweller said:
I don't really like thick knives. I don't really like stainless. I don't like rubber handles. But I love the F1.

The utilitarian shape to the blade. Stainless that is just a hair harder to sharpen and keep sharp than carbon. NO STUPID CHOIL NOTCH:D Ricasso very small so you can get good leverage. Great knife.

I usually take a carbon steel backpacking or camping unless it's very wet. However in my woods at home and doing farm chores, day hikes it's almost always the F1.
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You and I see eye to eye on this one;) :D .
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Yes and it was wrong as I pointed out for several reasons, the main ones being the materials are not the same nor the enviroments.



I have long preferred low carbide (non-stainless) steels for kitchen knives, and put up with the frequent sharpening because of the ease of sharpening and general ability to take a fine edge. My specific purpose kitchen knives are very thin/acute at the edge and are very sharp, they never fall below shaving because I want to cut with no slippage. When cutting onions and such with those knives you can see the edge discolor immediately in steels like O1 and this will directly effect the edge obviously. For such applications then steels like AEB-L at 65/67 HRC are optimal.

-Cliff
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SORRY..... huh????????? :confused: :eek: :D
 
I really am trying to understand. This is my reasction to your differentiation.

Cliff Stamp said:
They are usually not the same metals
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Gun barrels are typically not stainless. Are you saying gun barrel steel in more restsant to corrosion than the carbon steel used for knives?

and you generally don't expose them to the same corrosive agents
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Until relatively recently, they were exposed to a highly corrosive agents as I undersatnd it - mercury. (I own several rifles used in with corrosive primers.) Are you saying mercury is not corrosive or that fruit juice is significantly more corrosive than mercury?

Nor do they suffer the constant burnishing in use as does a knife.
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I thought we agreed that firing the firearm removed any oil placed in the bore in advance.
 
mtnsct said:
One point that hasn't been mentioned in favor of carbon steel ( the right carbon steel!) is the ability to strike a spark into tinder for lighting a fire. It gives you one more option that stainless ( and other high alloy content tool steels) can't provide.
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stainless does work with a firesteel. I know because the other day I used a s30v stainless knife blade to start a fire.
 
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