Tool steel vs. Stainless for bushcraft/survival

I love them both. if you are worried about rust buy 2 of the same knife. One for display one for use and there is your solution to the problem.
 
Thomas Linton said:
But SS does not work with flint - the orginal "ol' sparky."
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no but i carry several lighters a carbon steel blade and a firesteel everywhere so its not that big of a deal to me. I have aslo seen 2 pieces of flint struck together start a fire. its a matter of what tickles your pickle really.:D
 
Flint "strikes a spark" from steel by shaving a piece of steel off. (Think of how a flintlock works - and must work.) The friction makes the piece of steel hot (not as hot as a fire steel spark). Trap the "sparks" in water and you will find they are teardrop-shaped pieces of steel, having hardened when they hit the water.
 
tarmix101 said:
As hollowdweller mentioned Fallkniven makes great knives. I MUCH prefer a carbon blade over stainelss.... but if I was going to compromise, it would be with the F1. Fallkniven is not only a premier outdoor knife, they do VG10 right. :thumbup:
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Could you and Hollow dweller extrapolate on the virtues of the Fallkniven F1 & WM1's please? I am thinking of buying one or both (one for the GF); and wondered if the VG10 is a steel that can hold an edge, and is easy to dress in the field before it goes too far? Would you use a ceramic rod to dress the edge after weekly use? or would it have to be put on to a stone?

It's a laminated steel with a bias on stainless correct?
 
1Tracker - Depends on whether you buy a new F1 or and older one. The older ones were solid VG-10, while the newer ones are VG-10 sandwiched between two layers of 420. I cannot tell the difference between the two in practice. The sandwich is suppose to be tougher, or stronger, or something like that. The F1 is hard to beat though as a general user, so either way you win. :)

As far as carbon knives and survival goes, well, all the mountain men had to use was carbon steel knives and they survived for years at a time in wilderness. About the only time I really prefer stainless over non stainless is around salt water and on my wading belt. Otherwise you will find a carbon steel blade on my belt, O1, 52100, A2, 5160 and L6 if I am not wearing something made of INFI.
 
Scott Ridgeway said:
Last month I purchased 7 plastic moras. Different models. Different steels.

I also like a nice patina, although I'm not sure a plastic knife will ever have character. In any case, I usually dip my carbon knives in "etching fluid" (purchased from Radio Shack) for an instant even patina. The shiny blade of the stainless mora was bothering me, so I thought I'd give it a try. I left it in the fluid for about a minute. It came out a a weird brownish gray. After buffing with steel wool, though, it looks just like a regular ol' patina blade. The advantages of stainless with the look of used carbon.
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Cool idea. I will be purchasing a few Moras soon and i will try this. Wow you must have an old school Radioshack store! They are a dying breed. Most of the ones here are glorified toy stores. There is just one oldschool radioshack here but they are converting to the new style. They still carry some of the great old electronics hobbyist stuff (very old stock) but no-one in the store has any training in or knowledge of hobbyist electronics! Its sad.The new radio shacks are just a half assed gadget shops.
 
I mostly own stainless knives but i have a few large carbon steel bowies and a few machetes. I usually coat them with tung oil. Its protects them well and according to the label Natural (NOT POLYMERIZED) Tung oil is approved for food container items.
 
tholiver said:
I mostly own stainless knives but i have a few large carbon steel bowies and a few machetes. I usually coat them with tung oil. Its protects them well and according to the label Natural (NOT POLYMERIZED) Tung oil is approved for food container items.
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All I can find is that "raw" tung oil is approved by the FDA as a finish on food contact surfaces, like cutting boards. I suppose if it has a chance to cure well on a knife, that might be something like a cured finish on a cutting board, but ???

What is troubling is that the plant from which is is made, Aleurities fordii, is a member of the Euphorbia family and is listed as poisonous in Poisonous Plants of South Carolina, including the chance of fatality.
 
Wow, yeah thats a little confusing isn't it? All parts of the plant are poisonous and yet its oil is FDA approved to be used to coat food containers???? Methinks i won't use it on any cutting tools used on foodstuffs! Better to err on the side of caution. But my large bowies and machetes are strickly choppers so i'll leave their finish intact. Actually it does apply and hold well and looks much nicer than the BBQ spray paint i had on the machetes!
Any body here know any safe, nontoxic, durable, coating materials?
 
First off,Stainless is not stainproof.Stainless rusts and then pits.
I used to hate knives without stainless steel blades,especially in survival or hunting knives.It has taken me this long to get over the rust hype phobia.Carbon steel really doesn't require that much maintenance.As long as you don't store your knives dripping with blood back into it's leather sheath,not much is going to happen but some patina,and at worst some spots.Most of the time that would rub right off.I only owned one knife that seemed to have a corrosion issue while my others did not,an I suspect a bad heat treat can be more the problem than what steel it was made of.As far as tuffness and all around perfomance you can not beat carbon steels.

One last point I'd like to make.A few years ago I purchased an old plumb axe off ebay,made of carbon steel of course.I cold blued the steel to help with corrosion just in case.That axe has been wet,chopped wood,been stored in a shed in all kinds of weather.I forgot about this axe and recently found it in my pile of tools and shovels.It only has a few minor spots of rust on after a couple of years,and the rust is such that it will easily be removed with fine steel wool and some oil.Your fears are unfounded,and other than needing a saltwater scuba knife for everyday use,stainless steel is overated.
 
1Tracker said:
Could you and Hollow dweller extrapolate on the virtues of the Fallkniven F1
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F1. Good sized handle. Not too big not too small blade. Convex edge. Sparks firesteel easily. Tang extends thru handle for cracking nuts. Relatively easy to sharpen and holds an edge well. Edge is very close to handle for max leverage cutting. The main weakness IMO is the sheath. I'd get a difft one. But mine will cut more deeply with a single push than any other knife I own.
 
hollowdweller said:
F1. Good sized handle. Not too big not too small blade. Convex edge. Sparks firesteel easily. Tang extends thru handle for cracking nuts. Relatively easy to sharpen and holds an edge well. Edge is very close to handle for max leverage cutting. The main weakness IMO is the sheath. I'd get a difft one. But mine will cut more deeply with a single push than any other knife I own.
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I also would add...

Three different sheath options. Kydex, flap over black leather (or my favorite) free hanging black leather.

For a thick knife (check this site for pics of sheath and dimensions):
http://www.fallkniven.com/a1f1/f1_en.htm
it's a great slicer.

I use a diamond rod for major repairs to the edge. Other than that, I use 600-800 grit sandpaper on my mouse pad block to hone the edge along with a leather strop.

It also throws sparks off the spine I swear you could weld with.:eek:

As hollowdweller mentioned above the handle is just perfect IMHO. The grip isn't soft really.... it just has a great "tacky" feeling to it.

I have used it for just about everything I would normally do outdoors. Cleaning game and fish, fire building, shelter building, food prep, and such. I was never disappointed with it, and the VG10 holds it's edge very... very well!

My only gripe is this, I'm normally a carbon steel user. The VG10 can be a little fussy if the edge needs major repair. Other that that.... it's a great knife.
 
TOMBSTONE said:
First off,Stainless is not stainproof.Stainless rusts and then pits.
I used to hate knives without stainless steel blades,especially in survival or hunting knives.It has taken me this long to get over the rust hype phobia.Carbon steel really doesn't require that much maintenance.As long as you don't store your knives dripping with blood back into it's leather sheath,not much is going to happen but some patina,and at worst some spots.
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Well said :thumbup: The majority of "stainless vs carbon" hype is just that.... hype both ways. I prefer carbon steel.... but I own many stainless knives and like them all.
 
I don't think one type (carbon or stainless) is necessarily better than the other. Their are good stainless and good carbon steels and not so good of both types as well. Neither broad type should be disregarded outright.

Just curious has anyone here tried parkerizing? I've been wanting to try it for years but can't find any Canadian suppliers.

However an important question would be carbon vs stainless in a marine (saltwater) environment. I live on a island but mostly stay inland so i can't really comment either way on saltwater issues. Anybody here have an opinion on saltwater durability of the respective steels?
 
tholiver said:
I don't think one type (carbon or stainless) is necessarily better than the other. Their are good stainless and good carbon steels and not so good of both types as well. Neither broad type should be disregarded outright.

Just curious has anyone here tried parkerizing? I've been wanting to try it for years but can't find any Canadian suppliers.

However an important question would be carbon vs stainless in a marine (saltwater) environment. I live on a island but mostly stay inland so i can't really comment either way on saltwater issues. Anybody here have an opinion on saltwater durability of the respective steels?
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Maintenance being equal,stainless steel would fair better in salt water as a rule of thumb.I'm no expert,but in my experience heat treat play's a large role. I've heard of stainless steel knives rusting unusually fast in some peoples knives.I think you have to consider how many people all over the World routinely utilize carbon blades/machetes etc. in jungle/coastal envirements, as everyday work knives without issue.
I've never tried parkerizing,but it is more effective then blueing for corrossion resistance.I don't know if they will ship to Canada,but Gun Parts Corporation and Brownells both have the products and a website to order from.
 
My 1095 Ka-Bar has been kept for about 6 years in its leather sheath... Dry for about 3 years, used as a kitchen knife for a year, and for the past 6 months oiled (hoppes oil) then stored in leather sheath. Black parkerizing is in fine shape, have yet to notice any rust forming on the edge since i owned it...
 
Gun bluing kits can be bought a canadiantire, and many other hunting and Outfitting shops around.
 
Edge degradation is the problem with carbon steels, but only if you don't work burnish or otherwise keep the edge free of corrosion producing elements. The rest of the blade can rust or discolor without undue concern over performance. If you carry a hone you can easily put an edge back on a carbon blade. With stainless blades you won't see the edge degradation as quickly as carbon blades, but it will happen under the right conditions. Someone said something about the use of carbon blades in hot, moist environments, but people living in these areas really use their knives and sharpen them often. This means a blade's life is measured in months or at the most a very few years before a replacement is needed. Not enough time sitting idle for rust to be an issue.
 
Steelhed said:
Edge degradation is the problem with carbon steels, but only if you don't work burnish or otherwise keep the edge free of corrosion producing elements.
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If you desire a high sharpness, then it is an issue even if the blade is working almost constantly. Steels like L6 for example can discolor while you are cutting up foods, you don't need to stop and wait.

Someone said something about the use of carbon blades in hot, moist environments, but people living in these areas really use their knives and sharpen them often.
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They are also very dull typically mainly due to corrosion. For blades which don't require a lot of sharpness (chopping) it isn't a concern, but if you are cutting very light vegetation you can notice it almost immediately in the right enviroments. You can compensate by method of sharpening (more coarse grit) as well as technique (more draw). Having a really high performance cutting ability on the knife helps as well.

-Cliff
 
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