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Top 5 MBC for SD

M

meshmdz

Joined
Apr 29, 2006
Messages
417
i have narrowed down my top 5 choices for my next spyderco. and THIS time, it will be for SD!!! i bought my first spyderco today, the Salt I, and i love it. however, i have learned that this isnt the best SD knife because it is not as pointed or clawed as these others.. i thought about it while purchasing the knife but i thought that i wanted to make this purchase solely based on the quality of the blade and i went with the H-1 vs. getting the native III that has a 440v blade steel. also, i wanted to make my CCW rig composed of 2 knives, both folders. i am going to keep my spydercos and the Salt I will be my blade for ED cutting. then this next knife for SD/MBC/CCW, whatever you choose to call it... i have a benchmade tetherknife and its a great blade but i am trying to get away frixed blades for CCW. folded blades just seem better all the way around to me. they arent as noticable, they can be deployed quickly and conceal far better than the fixed blades, IMHO. this brings up a question though. are folder blades as good as fixed blades for SD or MBC? either way these folded blades will be better for MBC/CCW. here are my choices in order that i am considering. i ask what knife you would go with and why? please consider blade steels as well.



(1 being my first choice and 5 being my last choice:cool: )


1. Karambit~C84 {2 and 1/8 in. VG-10 blade} i love this blade and was thinking that it would be the best for CCW and MBC because it was designed based on indonesian ideology that the clawed blade is good for defensive deployment. only draw back i can see is the blade is small, does this really matter?

2. Yojimbo Black G10 {2 and 7/8 in. blade, CPM-S30V} i like this one as well. only drawbacks, the blade isnt clawed and it is small.

3. Chinook II G10 {3 and 3/4 in. blade, CPM-S30V} i like this blade because of its design and prospective feel in the hand.

4. Manix~C95 {3 and 3/4 in. blade, CPM-S30V} i like this blade tons and think it would be a great MBC as well as any of the others. PERFECT blade length IMO.

5. Temperance {4 and 7/16 in blade, VG-10} i love this blade in the fixed blade family, however, the reason i listed it last was because it is illegal for me to carry in tennessee, as in it is over 4 inches exactly. nevertheless, i love this blade.



the karambit c84
C84_M.jpg
 
I would recommend the manix as it is a better edc as well as MBC rated and good for SD.
 
For the Karambit - Vess Collectibles( on e-bay) - makes a nice sheath for it.
I think the best knife for SD - is a fairly large blade that is a quick draw - like the Emerson Commander or Emerson cqc7 or Endura or Delicia(both Spyderco) with the wave feature.
 
what is this wave feature you fellas are talking about? and i thought the Karambit was MBC rated.. but really, on the details part of the Karambit, it states that it was made for SD and founded from Indonesian ideology. so i thought it would be perfect for SD.
 
Karambits are great SD knives but tend to require a lot of skill and training to use effectively. A more conventional knife would probably better serve someone with no training.

If you want a good SD knife for someone with no training, I recommend the Ka-Bar TDI. It is so natural that you do not need to learn anything special to use it. It is also very inexpensive. But it is a fixed blade (though a small one) and not a Spyderco.

The Wave feature is also great for panic situations, so I'll second the Emerson suggestion, or a waved Endura.

The Wave is a little notch on the spine of the blade that grabs your pocket as you pull the knife out. The effect is that the knife opens *as* you pull it out. It is as fast as a folder can be. If you are skeptical, try it yourself. I have been amazed how well it works. With out any practice I could Wave out my Emerson Super CQC7 8 or 9 times out of 10. That is very consistant for no practice, but not good enough to count on every time. But with some practice, it is now basically garenteed to come out open.
 
Just make sure you stick 'em hard in the right places and it wouldn't matter if you had screwdriver. As for the quick draw, sure it can be a plus, but if you're aware you'll have that thing ready with plenty of time. If I intended on doing bodily harm to you and was close enough to touch you before you realized my intent, the quick draw won't be much of a factor.

With all that considered, the wave feature seems like it can be the fastest way to pull out a folder, and the there's always a fixed blade.

I wouldn't go with anything under a 3" blade because in order to really take pain tolerance out of the equation, you must take away an individual's ability to function and that means getting in deep enough to cut past the muscle, the tendons and shutting down the organs and CNS. Sometimes someone's subcutaneous body fat may prevent a blade from really penetrating into the vital areas. Lastly, do yourself this favor, run if you can but if you have to use it, don't let them know you have it until til you've pulled it out of them.

Before anyone calls me a mall ninja, reread the post and you'll see that it's pure survival and no ego.
 
ignoramus said:
I wouldn't go with anything under a 3" blade because in order to really take pain tolerance out of the equation, you must take away an individual's ability to function and that means getting in deep enough to cut past the muscle, the tendons and shutting down the organs and CNS.
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I disagree with that. Many of the best SD knives in the world are smaller. It appears smaller is actually better for real SD scenerios.

The advantage of a larger blade is obvious, but smaller blades have many advantages of their own. A larger blade can help you take them down in one shot, but that is a rare thing no matter how large the blade is unless you are sneaking up on them. Unless you plan on stabbing someone without them knowing, a smaller blade is better. I.e., it's better in a real conflict.

I will admit, though, that the superiority of a small blade in a SD scenerio becomes more and more obvious when the person is trained to use it, such as a Karambit. But even when untrained I think it remains true.
 
i love the karambit. is it discontinued? someone said the ronin or something was done and i thought the karambit might have been too.. omg i hope not because i am going to order one tomorrow at work.

when you say someone that is trained with a marambit... what do you mean? how is this weapon extremely deadly in the right hands as opposed to untrained hands... i just look at that knife and i see it slashing across someones throat or neck in a life/death struggle and i see pints of blood pouring from the spyderco karambit... correct me if i am wrong...

so would you all agree that the Karambit would be a good SD knife for me? is it as reliable as the other spyders? thanks for all the help. you guys are the best.... i am just excited about getting this knife and wanna make sure its going to be hell reliable and be able to "stand to" should i ever have to dreadfully draw it and use it in a deadly fight... what do ya think?
 
Hair said:
I disagree with that. Many of the best SD knives in the world are smaller. It appears smaller is actually better for real SD scenerios.

The advantage of a larger blade is obvious, but smaller blades have many advantages of their own. A larger blade can help you take them down in one shot, but that is a rare thing no matter how large the blade is unless you are sneaking up on them. Unless you plan on stabbing someone without them knowing, a smaller blade is better. I.e., it's better in a real conflict.

I will admit, though, that the superiority of a small blade in a SD scenerio becomes more and more obvious when the person is trained to use it, such as a Karambit. But even when untrained I think it remains true.
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I respect your opinion, but it sounds like your just saying it's better without any rationale behind it. Would you mind elaborating on why you believe what I said is wrong and the smaller blade is better?
 
it appears to me that a smaller blade can be easier to conceal. also i believe that it is not WHAT you stab or slash someone with... it is WHERE you do it.

for instance, if you slash or stab me in a fight and i move and you hit my arm or leg, etc... straight up, you had better hope i dont or cant get to you. but if you did get me there, and i retaliated and got your throat or the side of your head with lets say the karambit, you are done. you will bleed out in a matter of seconds, as you would with a bigger knife in those same areas. bottom line, i think that its WHERE you get them, not WHAT you get them with.
 
meshmdz- That is what I mean. Or rather, what I have heard from people that know what they are talking about. The Karambit is akward to use unless you are very comfortable with it and have a lot of accuracy with it. This tends to require training. Without that training you might have better luck with another design.

ignoramus- I want to point out that I am not a knife fighter, have no training, and very little interest in the subject. I am just going on what is said by people that do have training, and by real life results and trends. It isn't my opinion at all, it is the way it actually works in the real world. The smaller designs are lighter and faster. This is more important and effective than going for the "bring him down with one stab" attack with a longer knife. Larger fighting knives like bowies and true fighters are more often seen as display pieces now-a-days as smaller designs are considered more effective by many (though surely not all) who actually train in bladed combat and know what they are talking about. It is of course a matter of opinion and a matter of personal style and training (for some people larger might be better based on their style), but saying anything under 3 inches should not be considered is definitly wrong since smaller knives are currently seen as the most effective for SD by people that really use them.

meshmdz- I believe that is part of it. And with a small design, it is easier and faster to get them *there* than it is with a larger knife. Most of the best arears to inflict damage are not very reliant upon deep penetration. Speed and accuracy is more important. Again, this is more obvious if the person is trained, but I would rather go up against an untrained person with a big knife than an untrained person with a small, fast knife. I know ignoramus isn't saying you have to get a bowie or something and is probably just talking about a larger folder like a Manix versus a sub-3 inch folder, but I would still prefer to go up against a Manix than something lighter and shorter (shorter means more control).
 
meshmdz said:
it appears to me that a smaller blade can be easier to conceal. also i believe that it is not WHAT you stab or slash someone with... it is WHERE you do it.

for instance, if you slash or stab me in a fight and i move and you hit my arm or leg, etc... straight up, you had better hope i dont or cant get to you. but if you did get me there, and i retaliated and got your throat or the side of your head with lets say the karambit, you are done. you will bleed out in a matter of seconds, as you would with a bigger knife in those same areas. bottom line, i think that its WHERE you get them, not WHAT you get them with.
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The difference between a 3" and a 2" knife is so insignificant that concealment isn't a factor. Are you saying that they will notice that 3" blade clipped to your pocket, but won't notice the 2" blade clipped to your pocket?

In cutting the throat, yes, there won't be a difference, but it can make a diffence on the rest of the targets on the body. With a smaller knife, you limit yourself to doing less damage on someone's body on other areas.
 
i have to agree with hair on his post. yes the difference between 2 and 3 inches isnt much. i am going to be taking lessons from a fella who is trained by martial artists all over the world and who has trained many military special ops fighters and police officers. he carries a Spyderco Karambit and says it is one of the best SD knives on the market. it is a spyderco and has a relentless claw that can drop someone in a flash.but beyond this arguement, i was wondering how reliable the Karambit is. have any of ya guys had any experience with this blade?


also is there a place where i can see someone using a karambit? like someone who is trained and has a video uploaded online like you guys are saying... i would be interested in seeing it.
 
ignoramus said:
In cutting the throat, yes, there won't be a difference, but it can make a diffence on the rest of the targets on the body. With a smaller knife, you limit yourself to doing less damage on someone's body on other areas.
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Where?

The arms and legs? You'd hit bone with a 3 incher or a 6 incher.

The rib cage? It is hard and risky to attack the rib cage with a knife. A longer one with have more penetration, but that doesn't translate into an advantage when you can't get past the ribs with any consistancy.

I think you are putting too much stock in how deep the knife can go if stab someone. You have to consider how deep the knife will actually penetrate. With a larger knife, you will probably not actually get any deeper. You will just have more unused blade sticking out.

Also, you have to consider that a smaller blade makes it easier to make contact in the first place.

A longer knife will penetrate more in the stomach and back, but the stomach is not the best place to inflict damage (especially since you are talking about dropping them as soon as possible) and how often do you get to stab someone in the back when you are defending yourself?

Again, I am not edcuated on the subject and am just repeated what I gather from people who are. But it seems that multiple fast and accurate wounds in the right places are more important than an inch of extra penetration in the stomach and no where else (at the cost of speed and accuracy).
 
also fellas, is there a site somewhere that any of you know of where i can read up on the spyderco karambit and or people that use this blade? any links are appreciated.
 
1:46am here. I am off tonight, but I work graveyard shifts, so I am used to being up late.

I just watched some of those videos again and most of them just display the Wave feature, or show Ernie doing so flashy tricks with the Karambit. Probably not what you are looking for. But the Technique videos show realistic SD scenerios and how the Karambit would be used in those situations.
 
no that is exactly what i was looking for man... he is a machine and the blade he uses is 2.60 inches!!!! amazing. its all in how you use the karambit. thats all there is to it. in the right hands and with training i dont think you can have a better SD blade on you... he used a folder as well... amazing
 
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