Tops vs Busse which is better?

[nelly1974]

WOW! I probably would'nt have gotten this many responses if i'd posted

Jennifer Lopez vs Vida Guerra

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...I found out one thing about living with the Busse--I like simple steels just fine, probably because I don't mind touching up a "lesser" blade as I work. I like field resharpenability to be somewhat less of a chore than I found INFI to make it.

INFI is a medium carbon relatively low alloy tool steel, much more so than most cutlery steels aside from the ones used by the forgers. I have never had much issues with resharpening as it tends to resist damage, wear and corrosion strongly and it is usually just a minute or so when necessary after extensive work and usually only really necessary to touch it up after dirt or other similar really abrasive work.

...the fact that some Busse fans come off like the worst pro-Glock droolers, mar what is otherwise a great knife series for the money demanded.

Most if not all of the successful knife makers/manufacturers have extreme fans, of which their zeal can be off putting as it tends to ring a bit hollow, as in he who shouts the loudest says the least. However they are solid knives in all respects, optomized more towards heavy work, but accepting of user desire elsewhere and willing to customize edges. It is hard to critize such behavior, especially for example when TOP's has refused such customer requests and forced their user base to look to the custom market to have their blades reground.

...handled both

I have used both extensively. Busse is one of the most heavily promoted knives, and also one of the few which lives up to the promotion. Verified as noted in live and public demonstrations.

-Cliff

 

[RedEdge77]

I'm curious, has anyone ever broken a busse? Like have the tip snap or the blade just completely shatter?

 

[on_the_edge]

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/busse_basic.html

Last two lines.

 

[darkestthicket]

busse is better, i have 2 tops knives, yeah they are ok, busse's have better finish, are semi custom so probably have better QC and a better warranty( i expect) since top's warranty blows if you even put a new handle on it. plus from holding one they are damn sturdy and damn heavy. should do any job you need.


this is not a remark against top knives as i like them, you just generally get what you pay for.


Edit :
basicly everything Cliff says above.

 

[Boats]

Like I said, I would never slam a Busse product on its merits. Any drawbacks to the knives themselves are in the realms of availability and hanging wit da fanboyz.

I am not down with the fanboyz and their "get what you pay for" mantra, which is to say that if you don't go Busse Combat, you have somehow implicitly screwed yourself. Whether one did right by one's self on a material purchase is the very essence of a subjective opinion.

The SRKT line itself puts the lie to that "what, weren't you worth it?" notion in that one gets nearly everything good about Busse line, minus the wild CNC handles, at an everyman price point. What you don't get to be with an SRKT, a Becker, an Ontario, an HI, in your sheath is an insufferable elitist prick (not that all Busse owners are--just too many for comfort ). In the vast majority of those other cases though, you do get an excellent blade for your money. Never let someone who paid $200.00+ or more than you did get away with saying you screwed up not being just like them.

I like Busse knives, but I don't like waiting forever and I certainly don't like wading through drool. I'd take my BRKT Gameskeeper and Roselli R850 at half of the price and do anything a Fusion BM could do and some other things that the Busse wouldn't do as efficiently. So what? I pay a weight penalty while the Busse user (if carrying only the one blade) is forced to press the Busse to fill roles that perhaps an axe more properly fills.

And of course that is apples and oranges. Point is there is more than one way to skin the cat. Some people want a jack of all trades chopper/knife and some people could care less via taking a more traditional approach. It never means that the latter group uniformally screwed itself by taking a different set of tools to the same outdoors tasks than do the believers in the one true sword.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Some people want a jack of all trades chopper/knife and some people could care less via taking a more traditional approach.

While I do agree there are issues with ordering, especially the lack of standard designs being always available, and over ready fans, you can't argue that a long blade isn't traditional. A long blade is very traditional in many parts of the world and prefered over axes for good reasons. Just like there are axes which work excepetionally well on some woods and are downright horrible to the point of being nonfunctional and dangerous on others. While I think it is a misrepresentation to present the idea that you either use Busse or fail horribly at any knife work, it is just as wrong to use extreme Busse fans to judge the user group. The same can be said about just about any design as there are those who will promote extremes for most.

-Cliff

 

[Boats]

While I do agree there are issues with ordering, especially the lack of standard designs being always available, and over ready fans, you can't argue that a long blade isn't traditional. A long blade is very traditional in many parts of the world and prefered over axes for good reasons. Just like there are axes which work excepetionally well on some woods and are downright horrible to the point of being nonfunctional and dangerous on others. While I think it is a misrepresentation to present the idea that you either use Busse or fail horribly at any knife work, it is just as wrong to use extreme Busse fans to judge the user group. The same can be said about just about any design as there are those who will promote extremes for most.

-Cliff

And I am not going to be disagreeing with you about any of the above in general. In North America, as I was implying, a knife/axe combo is usually considered more traditional than is the butch machete approach, which also has its history in woodcraft in NA, just not nearly as much because the long knife mostly hails from the tropics. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, as far as I am concerned. I own a long knife myself and appreciate the weight savings it affords me in hotter weather where firewood and fast shelter are not immediate emergency concerns.

I was just explaining why I am repelled from, not by, a perfectly good line of knives. Like it or not, the ownership experience, especially in the internet age, is colored for good or ill in part by the online community that coalesces around the product. I tend to dislike Glock and HK firearms for much the same fanboy related reasons.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

Like I said, I would never slam a Busse product on its merits. Any drawbacks to the knives themselves are in the realms of availability and hanging wit da fanboyz.

I am not down with the fanboyz and their "get what you pay for" mantra, which is to say that if you don't go Busse Combat, you have somehow implicitly screwed yourself. Whether one did right by one's self on a material purchase is the very essence of a subjective opinion.

The SRKT line itself puts the lie to that "what, weren't you worth it?" notion in that one gets nearly everything good about Busse line, minus the wild CNC handles, at an everyman price point. What you don't get to be with an SRKT, a Becker, an Ontario, an HI, in your sheath is an insufferable elitist prick (not that all Busse owners are--just too many for comfort ). In the vast majority of those other cases though, you do get an excellent blade for your money. Never let someone who paid $200.00+ or more than you did get away with saying you screwed up not being just like them.

I like Busse knives, but I don't like waiting forever and I certainly don't like wading through drool. I'd take my BRKT Gameskeeper and Roselli R850 at half of the price and do anything a Fusion BM could do and some other things that the Busse wouldn't do as efficiently. So what? I pay a weight penalty while the Busse user (if carrying only the one blade) is forced to press the Busse to fill roles that perhaps an axe more properly fills.

And of course that is apples and oranges. Point is there is more than one way to skin the cat. Some people want a jack of all trades chopper/knife and some people could care less via taking a more traditional approach. It never means that the latter group uniformally screwed itself by taking a different set of tools to the same outdoors tasks than do the believers in the one true sword.

despite (or because of) the wild claims in your trolling rant, it is you who is coming off as an "insufferable elitist prick"

You seem to have some mental issues- feelings of inadequacy, perhaps paranoid delusions.

Also, what is "SRKT"? never heard of them.

Despite your delusional inference that saying “you get what you pay for” somehow insinuates that buying something other than a Busse is screwing yourself over, (paranoia, anyone?) This statement is true no matter what you are buying- knives, cars, guns, whatever. You do get what you pay for.

Maybe next you will go to the custom knife forum and try to tell everyone that they are idiots for buying $1000+ custom knives, when they can get by with much cheaper knives.

 

[Eric Isaacson]

. What you don't get to be with an SRKT, a Becker, an Ontario, an HI, in your sheath is an insufferable elitist prick (not that all Busse owners are--just too many for comfort ).

Can you provide a link when someone was treated like this? I understand the attitude you are referring to, but I can't say I've seen it on the Busse forum or on any of these threads when Busse is mentioned. Generally speaking the Busse customers are helpful in answering questions, and go out of their way to explain why they prefer Busse knives. I seldom (as in years) see them putting anyone down because they chose to buy another knife. Are you sure that you aren't referring to another high performance knife company that no longer has a forum on this site?

 

[Guyon]

I pay a weight penalty while the Busse user (if carrying only the one blade) is forced to press the Busse to fill roles that perhaps an axe more properly fills.

Whatever gave you the idea that Busse only makes long blades?

My last four Busse knives:

• Game Warden - 3" blade length
• Active Duty - 3.5" blade length (winging its way to me right now, I hope)
• Badger - 4.5" blade length (well, the deal has been struck... payment and delivery details have been arranged)
• Satin Jack-TAC LE - 6" blade length

Elitist prick? I don't think so. I just enjoy quality, and I like the performance and guarantee that comes with these well-designed blades. At the same time, my Beckers and BRKT's get their fair share of use.

 

[Boats]

For Rat:

Yeah, it is a trolling rant because you say so. Got it.

The kneejerk defensive denials that some Busse owners are over-the-top loons is something common to such fan groups. Not even Cliff denies that there is an element in that community that is, let's put it politely, wildly immature. Just visit the subforum--no wait--you are a regular from there so quit being disingenious about the vibe that is sometimes present. Do love the resorting to amateur psychology though. Such a novel approach and so not hackneyed.

I do apologize for screwing up the acronym for Swamp Rat and mangling it with Bark River's, which I type much more often. So much for elitism, making an error like that. Really, I am sorry. Confusing terms never helps anyone.

Blah, blah blah-blah blah. . .This statement is true no matter what you are buying- knives, cars, guns, whatever. You do get what you pay for.

No. Sometimes you get more. Sometimes you get an image. Volkswagen is lampooning such things in a car advertisement just now. Just because you don't want to admit that some juvenile Busse fanboyz exist doesn't mean they don't.

Maybe next you will go to the custom knife forum and try to tell everyone that they are idiots for buying $1000+ custom knives, when they can get by with much cheaper knives.

Of course if I was trying to say that here you just might have your first point. When the buyers of $1000.00+ custom knives, in part become be-all end-all chest thumping asshats, I'll be right there to call them on it. Busse Combat is in no way shape or form in Mad Dog territory attitudinally, but some of the buyers, and more laughably, the odd wannabe, have been there for awhile now.

 

[Eric Isaacson]

Not even Cliff denies that there is an element in that community that is, let's put it politely, wildly immature..

Can you please provide an example of this. (an example where some regular on the Busse forum was rude or immature in answering a question for a non-regular)?

There is a lot of joking that takes place on that forum but that is among the regulars and it is because they enjoy to have a good time.

I do not remember the last time someone asked an honest question and was treated poorly on that forum

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

it is a trolling rant because it is full of inaccurate statements and flame-baiting comments. I guess there doesn't have to be psychological reasons behind simple trolling, I will give you that.

Go ahead and post some examples of this rampant "fanboyism" you are talking about. Links please?

I have not seen it, and I am also turned off by such antics. I have seen much enthusiasm for the products, but I see just as much (or more) enthusiasm over on the BRKT forum. . . so how is that different? Enthusiasm is not the same as Fanboyism (if that is even a word).

Please provide some links to this behavior you mention.

 

[RedEdge77]

Can you please provide an example of this. (an example where some regular on the Busse forum was rude or immature in answering a question for a non-regular)?

There is a lot of joking that takes place on that forum but that is among the regulars and it is because they enjoy to have a good time.

I do not remember the last time someone asked an honest question and was treated poorly on that forum

I'll call out Rat Finkenstein on this. I'll post a few examples

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414491

Always putting down the newbies

 

[Tyrkon Lawson]

I have only been in the Busse/Swamp Rat world for a year or less but I personally have only had positive experiences. I have even started a few threads asking for others to suggest other quality knives, such as BRKT, as I didn't want to wait for new batches to be turned out. What I got was lots of great suggestions for knives other than Busse and Rats. As far as I can recall no one ever flamed me for asking about "other" knives on the company forums. Just good advice. I will say that some of the HOGS and RATS have a sense of humor that may catch you off guard at first but... Sorry you have run into some bad experiences.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

I'll call out Rat Finkenstein on this. I'll post a few examples

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414491

Always putting down the newbies

What are you talking about?

1. Not putting down anyone

2. Not in the Busse Forum

3. Nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Boats]

Look, I have been hanging out here off and on for three years as an active poster and a lurker for about a year before that. I am not going to wade through 423 pages or so of a subforum to pick out random bits of the crap I am talking about. Certainly, should we care enough, odds are I would find something stupid on a variety of topics, not all of which could be dismissed as the byproduct of trolling.

I am only detailing my impression of a minority portion of the subforum as it was when I lurked on it during a bout of Busse lust well over two years ago. Some of the posts about 'nuclear toughness," and "what's your life worth?" are just laughable, and not in a good way, by any measure.

I don't know, maybe my impression is outdated, but I see a mild strain of what I am talking about every time some real troll calls Busse overhyped or overpriced, a pursuit I have never engaged in. It is fine and all to react to a troll, but again, some of the responses are so overstated that the stereotype I am not alone in perceiving gets colored in all over again by a freshly too rabid by half fanboy.

Once again, to each his own, I am not slamming Busse Combat or the knives, just detailing a personal reason, (maybe even a full blown psychotic overreaction-OMG!!!, that sees me never checking out the wares anymore.

 

[Eric Isaacson]

Look, I have been hanging out here off and on for three years as an active poster and a lurker for about a year before that. I am not going to wade through 423 pages or so of a subforum to pick out random bits of the crap I am talking about. Certainly, should we care enough, odds are I would find something stupid on a variety of topics, not all of which could be dismissed as the byproduct of trolling.

I am only detailing my impression of a minority portion of the subforum as it was when I lurked on it during a bout of Busse lust well over two years ago. Some of the posts about 'nuclear toughness," and "what's your life worth?" are just laughable, and not in a good way, by any measure.

I don't know, maybe my impression is outdated, but I see a mild strain of what I am talking about every time some real troll calls Busse overhyped or overpriced, a pursuit I have never engaged in. It is fine and all to react to a troll, but again, some of the responses are so overstated that the stereotype I am not alone in perceiving gets colored in all over again by a freshly too rabid by half fanboy.

Once again, to each his own, I am not slamming Busse Combat or the knives, just detailing a personal reason, (maybe even a full blown psychotic overreaction-OMG!!!, that sees me never checking out the wares anymore.

I just feel that your statements are inaccurate and unfair.. If the "overhyped" attitude is so prevalent it should be easy to find some examples. I really don't recall it happening when an honest question is asked. Generally speaking we even give Trolls a modicum of respect (until they no longer deserve it).

I just don't see the attitude you are describing and I'd once again love to see some examples. If you don't want to (or can't find) examples I would suggest you stop spreading rumors. You yourself say it is "random", this wouldn't lead me to believe it is near as bad as you are trying to portray it.

I'm not trying to start a fight, but I do feel that you are being unfair to the forum and the Busse customers, not to mention Busse Combat. If you do feel the customers are the problem (which I don't) that has no effect on the knives or how they perform.

 

[arnoldglee]

I own several TOPS knives, used and abused them. Given them as gifts, went camping with them, dug holes, chopped wood, carved sticks to toast marshmallows on etc.

Good knives, good fit and finish. They have the feel of a heavy duty blade and are real beaters that can take abuse.

I also own nearly a dozen Busses. Beat the holy living heck out of them, they are easier to sharpen than 1095 and that edge rolling thing instead of chipping (which I've done to a Tops blade) is great. The one thing I won't be doing is giving them as gifts, they're mine, all mine!

They are awesome knives. Also super heavy duty and can take mucho abuse.

The larger Tops models that are comparable in size, blade length and weight to say a Busse Satin Jack or a Steel Heart are just as expensive or right in the same price range as a Busse. Like the BEST black eagle strike team for instance (which is CM154 BTW). For that price I'll take the superior Busse steel, heat treat, fit and finish.

I do own more smaller Tops knives like the UTE, Strikar and Street Scalpel that are a little more affordable in the $60-100 range. Busse doesn't have the variety of design in their small blades (even though I love my skeleton key).