Totally bogus BF member.... "Dan GSR"

No Lee, it is not just your opinion. I firmly believe that if your word means nothing then you have no honor. It is as simple as that as far as I am concerned.
 
Your right keith a mans word should be their bond but in this case we donot have proof that there was a deal made so all we can do is wait and see if there is proof. And if there is then we can judge on what we see and read so until that happens i will hold my judgement for now. If you go back and read my first post you will see that i have edited it to be more openminded on this one cause as you said there is no proof as of yet.

Lee Brooks
Knifemaker
BROOKSKNIVES.canada


brooksknives@hotmail.com
 
Maybe we do have to wait until actual evidence is provided before we can derive at our own conclusion; however, if the defendant continues to leave this opportunity open, what else should we accept? I was under the impression that Stagger Lee was given time to collect enough cash to pay for the item, but during this period Dan GSR had made other arrangements. This is a broken promise, but then again, who's being truthful? This can only be settled between the two of them. Hopefully these replies will set a straight path and influence others to follow it accordingly.
 
I'd like to suggest anyone who has comments to make about abstract concepts of ethics in general post them in Meta: I thought we had a deal? and let's reserve this thread for facts about this particular transaction from now on.

If we do that this thread will be a lot shorter ... so if anything pertaining to the facts gets posted it'll be easy to find it ... and we might be able to get some worthwhile discussion about ethics going in the other thread.
 
I think it is obvious from Stagger Lee's outline of what went on here combined with Dan GSR's general commentary on business ethics who is the bad guy. If Dan GSR had not given Stagger Lee some kind of verbal agreement that he would wait for the cash then why did Stagger Lee keep in constant email communication with him as to the status of his fund raising efforts over a three day period? The most galling aspect of this entire situation is the fact that Dan GSR, who obviously knows that Stagger Lee is struggling to come up with the funds necessary to make the agreed upon deal hits him with an email inviting him to now conduct a bidding war:rolleyes: on this knife. In my opinion this was nothing but a calculated underhanded way of telling Stagger Lee the deal was now off cause he found better offers after the fact. I would be furious if someone pulled this stunt on me. In the past I have engaged in trades where people have agreed to certain terms and then emailed me back a day later to attempt to change the terms. When this happens I immediately cut off all attempts to make a trade with that individual. This is not rocket science people! When you agree to something and try to go back on it then as far as I am concerned you can no longer be trusted to fulfill your end of the deal. :mad:
 
My only question at this point is if I go over to the bali forum, am I going to see unauthorized for sale posts by non Gold members, in the wrong forum?

Lets let DanGSR and Stagger Lee work this out amongst themselves, via e mail. This public display has gone on long enough.

Don't you all agree?
 
First I want to say that I agree with "code 3" when he said that this thred was going on long enough,I never thought it would of lasted this long,I just wnted to let fellow BF members know about a person that I thought was unfair and very greedy.

Now as far as who's response to my post was the most "dead on",I would have to say that "sod buster" read my posts,and took all the facts out of my postings to make a rational judgement of who "side" he was on.All the facts that were needed to make a personal decision were all in my posts....REALLY,I left nothing out.

I thought about the situation,and as I said before,what would I have to gain by not including all the facts,or lying to make myself seem innocent?
Beore this happend I had no beef with Dan GSR,and he seemed like a genuine nice person from what I read of his past posts on BF,so there is/was no reason to tarnish his name,except for the fact that he screwed me over on the knife..IMHO.
If it was MY fault for not being clear on the deal,or say I changed my mind and backed out of the deal,do you REALLY think I would come on this forum and post something bad about Dan GSR when it was actually MY fault...hardly,that would be mean and cruel and that's DEFINATELY not me.
I did this strictly to teach somebody a lesson,that it's NOT cool to do what he did,and that your word should mean alot,especially when your dealing with other cool people who share the same interest as yourself.
I had no other way to get back at him,so I figured I had to do SOMETHING,otherwise he would think it was OK to do that to everybody.
Obviously he didn't think we had a deal,which I have a hard time believing,it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand a deal,I thought we did.I really don't think I could of made it any clearer that I wanted the knife,that we HAD a deal,and that it would take me a week to get the cash together....what else could i have said to make it clearer?
The only way I could of seen him thinking that I didn't want the knife,was if I were to email him back sometime during the week timeframe and to have told him I couldn't get the cash together in time...otherwise he should of known that I wanted the knife and that I would be collecting the cash during the week to pay for it.Why should he of known this....because I TOLD him this in those EXACT words.
EXCERPT FROM MY EMAIL:
If by some chance I couldn't get the cash together within a week i'll email you and tell you to tell your dealer that he can let it go,and I wouldn't expect him to hold it anymore than a week,if that's even possible.

As I said before,I emailed him within three days of originally setting up the deal,to let him know that I already had half the money collected.....if I was blowing off the transaction why would I of emailed him 3 times to tell him my status of how much money I collected so far?If I was blowing him off he wouldn't of heard from me at all,but i would never do that cause i'm not that kind of person,and i told him I would email him if I couldn't make it within the week timeframe.

So,i've stated the facts,and it up to you people to decide who was right and who was wrong,but if you read the facts you would plainly see who was in the right.
Besides,if I was an unbiased person just reading other peoples posts,it would be TOTALLY obvious to me who's wrong.If you go back and read all of Dan's post,he's not a very convincing person.As a matter of fact I think HE'S done more damage to his character just from his responses.Like if this wasn't done to me,and I was just reading this situation,I would totally side against Dan just from reading his responses on how he thinks business should be conducted.Really,reread his replies and you'll see what I mean,he just sounds like he's trying to backtrack and cover his ass so he doesn't seem like a bad guy.

Anyways I think i've stated enough facts for everybody here to make a logical assuption,anything else i'll say from here on out would just be me repeating the same thing over and over....peace
-Stagger lee
 
Probably we should just let this thread die right now; probably we'll never get any clear statement of what happened here; probably nobody is very interested anyway ... even the principals seem to have lost interest ... but for what it's worth -- you haven't answered the question, Stagger Lee. Dan's story is clear:

Originally posted by Dan GSR
I didn't say that I'd hold the knife for him.
Click to expand...

All that's clear from you so far, Stagger Lee, is you made him an offer. You offered to buy the knife in a week if he were willing to wait that long. As far as what's been posted by both of you shows, he did not accept your offer, and you're not complaining that he reneged on a deal; you're complaining that he didn't accept your offer.

I see three possibilities here:

#1 Dan did agree to a deal. Then he reneged on the deal. Then he lied in this thread saying he had never agreed to the deal.

#2 Dan wrote something that he didn't intend to mean acceptance of your offer, but you interpreted it to mean that. (Things like that can happen ... usually trying to assign fault is pretty futile ... if that's what happened, both of you might resolve to communicate in unmistakably clear terms in the future, both in how you write and how you read.)

#3 Dan didn't write an acceptance of your offer. He didn't promise to hold the knife for a week for you to raise the money -- but you assumed he would. You ran around raising money based on that assumption. Then you found he hadn't held the knife for you as you had assumed he would, and you got mad and started this thread.

It may not be easy for you to figure out which of those things happened, Stagger Lee, especially since you deleted some of the correspondence. You may never know. This thread will probably pass into history as an unsolved mystery....
 
I agree with Cougar.The critical question that remains unanswered is did Dan agree to the terms you had offered, if he didn't than you did not have a sealed deal.Usually it takes both parties to agree and say yes "we have a deal"Take Care,Ralph
 
Stagger Lee, all you have to post is the answer to this question and everything will be clear. Did Dan ever email you and say that you had a deal and that he would wait a week for you to get the money together? You have stated many times that you told him it was a deal and that you needed a week to get the money together, but did he say, "that's OK, you have a week to get the money together and if you do the knife is yours"? If he did, you had a deal. If he didn't, you didn't have a deal.


Edited because I left out a word.
 
shortgoth and braundc,

I'm sorry to hear that you two share the same revolting attitudes and shameful beliefs for your lack of business ethics.

No braundc, our world is NOT doomed! You're very wrong! This thread will never be long enough to allow your mind to comprehend. An education usually helps!

In fact, I believe this thread has almost come to an end... Unsolved? Unfortunately, you may never understand the importance of a man's word. The "golden rule" still exists - treat others how you would like to be treated. If you enjoy getting stiffed then so be it, but don't expect your reputation to hold water.
 
I looked back at the remaining emails I have sent from Dan GSR,and out of the one's I have left there were no emails saying the exact words: "WE HAVE A DEAL"...BUT let me say this:

During the time that we originally set up this transaction agreement,we were emailing each other every 5 minutes to work out the details.
One of the last emails from myself was telling him that we had a deal and that it would take me a week to come up with the cash,his response was that he didn't think the knife would be going anywhere within the week cause his dealer wasn't showing the knife to anybody else,also saying that I had at LEAST week before it went anywhere....and that if I wanted a "real" hold on the knife to send his dealer half the cost of the knife,and that he would hold it for a month.(cause I asked him if his dealer would hold it for a week for me without a cash deposit)
Also during the time that I was asking him about the hold on the knife,I told him I was worried that I would get the cash together and then find out it was sold by his dealer.I then asked him if HE thought it would get sold within the week,cause i told Dan that if he thought it was going to be sold within the week I wouldn't even bother to get the cash together.That's when he had told me about his dealer showing it to nobody else and that it was safe to say that it was still going to be there in a week.
Now if this were you setting up a deal,wouldn't you of taken that statement as "WE HAVE A DEAL",just hurry up so nobody else buys it?
From his responses I made the "assuption" that we had a deal and that I had a week to come up with the cash...because he NEVER responded saying that if he got any other offers that he would consider it,or that he couldn't safely say that he'll have the knife for me in a week....I didn't know I had to hear the ACTUAL words "WE HAVE A DEAL" to know that we had a deal.
I've done deals with other people,and not ONCE were the words "WE HAVE A DEAL" uttered,it's just common sense if you have a deal or not,especially if your currently working out the details on how to get the payment to the seller.
Every deal i've ever done has always been under the assuption that the deal is on,unless I say I don't want the knife,or the seller says he can't agree to my requests if I can't make the payment right away,which i've bought a few knives this way(sometimes it takes me a few days to get the cash together)
We're not talking rocket science here,we're talking about a simple business transaction......if he didn't want to wait the week then he would of said so....we sent numerous emails to one another and there was never any claim of miscommunication until he actually decided to sell the knife to somebody else,him saying that he "never said he'd sell the knife to me".
Everything was crystal clear until he started getting bigger cash offers from other people,thats when everything started to get all screwy.
If he was taking other offers from other people,or had already received offers from other people for the same knife,all he had to do is say so...he was clear about everything else regarding me acquiring the knife,why couldn't he just say that he wasn't making any promises and that he couldn't promise that the knife was mine until the money was sent out to him....everybody else i've dealt with has done this if they couldn't agree to holding it for me without any money in their hands.

So read this anyway you want,but in my eyes if your setting up a business tranaction to buy something,the deal is on until you or the seller say otherwise.
I hope this helped to clear things up to where everybody can make their own assuption of the situation of who was right and who was wrong...peace
-stagger lee
 
Well to be honest,it really didn't sound like he was promising you 100% that it was yours.From what your saying is he didn't believe it would be gone in a week.In my opinion it really doesn't remotely sound like a sealed deal.IT sucks,especially when you really wanted the knife,but learn from this experience.Take Care,Ralph
 
One More observation.IF this knife was still under the control of his dealer,I really don't know that a deal with him could have been so binding.I mean I guess he could be a middleman,but the owner of the actual blade was this "dealer"which was under no obligation to you to hold anything.Actually the whole scenerio seemed rather complicated.I guess we can finally have closure to this situation.
 
Dan,
I'm glad your last transaction went well.
I hope you have learned not to be the middleman for $10.

Stagger Lee,
I don't think you had a firm deal since Dan was a middleman.
 
Has anyone ever heard of any "finders fee" in conjunction with these forums? Whoever dreamed it up, regardless who, should be deeply ashamed of themselves.Whatever happened to the friendly,generous fraternalism we all enjoyed for so long? I would go and have gone to great lengths to help fellow forumites find a desired blade, even spending a little cash to do it. The idea of charging an online pal for a friendly boost just sets my teeth on edge.I don't feel that that's consistant with the reasons most of us are here. My 2c worth only.Revjim. :barf:
 
I have nothing agaist Dan making monry from other members of this forum. If he does so, it is my opinion that he should have to buy a dealer membership. If he does not want to buy a dealer membership, then he has no business being a middleman for a dealer and charging for that service. I hope that Dan has learned this and will refrain from doing that kind of thing in the future.
 
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