You seem like the kind of guy who understands the vast difference in durability between a folder and a fixed blade.
PM me.
Skam
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Touchy subject Folders & Survival
- Thread starter MIKE MACINTOSH
- Start date
PM me.
Skam
Naturally, there are varying degrees of durability on all types of items, including fixed blade knives. A small, cheap Scandi fixed blade isn't supposed to be a prybar in terms of durability. But I'd like to see the folder that can take as much punishment as a good Leuku and still be functional. The comparable blade size is a weird criteria, considering that other factors such as price, edge geometry and designed use of the blade will be vastly different. I certainly agree that a cheap, weak fixed blade will not be as durable as an expensive heavy use folder and in this sense, it's all up to the knives being compared to each other. But if we're talking quality fixed blades for hard use and quality folders for hard use, there is no way the folders can compare in terms of durability. But as I said, that's not to say that you can't do a lot with a folder. It's just that anything you can do with a folder, you can do better with a fixed blade, with two exceptions: concealability and convenience of carry. (Assuming we're talking single blade folders. Multitools are a different issue, naturally.)
Sorry, mate, I don't have the PM functionality. Not a paying member.
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I have carried a Buck 112 on camping, hunting, fishing and hiking trips for years. I never felt the need for a fixed blade. We didn't "baton" or any other methods that abuse knives. I never felt the need for any other knife. I now cary a Spyderco Delica 4 as a edc. I would feel no handycap at all with this knife. Besides when they find lifeless body the words "if he only had a fixed blade knife he would be alive today" will be said again and again and again !
!
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Its not unlike a gun, its better to have something small enough to always carry than no knife at all. I would be quite confident that any of my larger folders would serve me well but It would be great to have a big chopping type knife as well I never leave the house without a good folder with pocket clip hooked on my jeans pocket.
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- Jun 24, 2003
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You're comparing a 8" to 9" Leuku to a typical folder?
The comparable blade size is NOT a weird criteria because that is how you judge things. We don't carry 9" folders over here. Yes, for the things that a Finn might use a Leuku for, an American would use an 8" to 10" knife, an axe, or a machete for. Same comparable size.
I've seen the Scandi knives in the 3" to 4" range that every 'survival expert' lauds about and those blades are not really any stronger than a good quality folder. Regardless of the blade, 99.9% of everything that a 3" to 4" fixed blade can do, a similarly sized folder can do also.
The neat thing about a folder is that it can do everything a similarly sized fixed blade is normally called upon to do, and it's compact enough that it's no big deal to also carry a larger fixed blade, like a 9" Bowie, or a 12" machete.
The main advantage that a 3" to 4" fixed blade has, for most practical uses, is that they are easier to clean off than a folder after you dress out a deer or an elk.
If I wanted to chop small trees, I would compare them, if someone was trying to sell me on getting a folder. That's the problem here - there are things you cannot do with a folder. You can't properly chop, you can't baton except very carefully, you can't expect the blade to handle the kind of prying you were always told to avoid, but might, perhaps, have to do in a tough spot. And above all, you can't just draw the blade from wherever you carry it and have it already open, in your hand, and sure the blade is never going to close on your fingers and that a possible assisted opening mechanism is never going to fail under any circumstances whatsoever.
Yes, I know you don't have 9" folders, although I do believe Cold Steel makes about 6" folders. There we have it - for some purposes, you just have to carry a fixed blade, be that as it may a large fixed blade instead of a small to medium size one.
As for the 3 to 4 inch Scandis "survival experts" rave about, I don't recall ever arguing that the average cheaply factory manufactured stainless steel Scandi is a tough knife for hard use or survival situations. I'll claim you can survive with a Chinese made cheap folding knife if you're careful, but you could do better with a better knife. Small Scandi knives are good for woodworking and hunting use, but they are not good for prying boulders or batoning logs. I believe it's a bit weird to compare a 4 € Mora knife to a 40+ $ Ka-Bar Mule hard use folder, for example, considering the price difference. But if you say any 3 to 4 inch fixed blade is at most as durable as good hard use folders of the same blade length, I can't agree. Ever used a Fällkniven F1? Busse Game Warden? Both under 4" blades, and both much more durable than "good quality folders." And if we go into the ultra-expensive Strider-type quality folders, the fixed blades will also be way cheaper. No matter how you argue it, a well made fixed blade for hard use will be much stronger than a well made folder for hard use with the same blade length. And if you think that's incorrect, I'd like a lot to see some testing data, because a long history of testing and obviously common sense contradicts that claim.
As far as convenience of carry is concerned, I've never had any trouble carrying a small fixed blade with a large fixed blade, or even a large axe. Some Scandi fixed blades actually have sheaths that have room for two knives - a large chopper and a small 2 to 4 inch precise work knife. If that's not convenient, I don't know what is. But sure, you can't stuff a fixed blade in your pocket as easily as a folder. But the difference is hardly so large as to force you into carrying just one fixed blade because of the horrifying inconvenience of so doing.
So do note, I'm not saying a folder can't do anything. Sure, they can do a lot. One does not need a fixed blade for most things. One doesn't even need a folder, necessarily, to survive difficult situations. But it's a blatant lie to claim that folders in general are as durable as fixed blades of the same blade length. Give me the toughest folder you can find, and I'll give you a fixed blade of the same blade length that's both tougher and cheaper.
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- Mar 31, 2006
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Elen
the origional question was can you survive an unplaned survival situation with limited equiptment as portrayed in the movie. "The edge" All of your arguements seem to be fixed blades are stronger than folders, a point nobody is really debateing.the arguement just avoids the origional question ,as far as batoning there are other technique's that can be used that don't risk damage to the knife. We all read on this forum and others that the more you know the less you need, we practice making fires with a swedish fire steel ,or a fire bow,in the safty of our back yards to hone our skill's in case of an emergency if the time is taken to learn how to use a folder to its full potential it can be every bit as valueable as a fixed blade in a survival situation.
the origional question was can you survive an unplaned survival situation with limited equiptment as portrayed in the movie. "The edge" All of your arguements seem to be fixed blades are stronger than folders, a point nobody is really debateing.the arguement just avoids the origional question ,as far as batoning there are other technique's that can be used that don't risk damage to the knife. We all read on this forum and others that the more you know the less you need, we practice making fires with a swedish fire steel ,or a fire bow,in the safty of our back yards to hone our skill's in case of an emergency if the time is taken to learn how to use a folder to its full potential it can be every bit as valueable as a fixed blade in a survival situation.
Mike, I understand what you're saying here. I think we all know that people can survive difficult, dangerous situations with minimal tools, or even none. The stone age man certainly did not have VG-10 tactical folders, and still he survived his life in a very difficult environment. Any folder that you have with you in a survival situation is certainly a thousand times more useful than a full collection of all Busse models ever sold sitting at home in their sheaths. That's the long and short of it - yes, you can survive almost anything with minimal or no tools, assuming you have or can quickly acquire the necessary skills that humans used to have when we all lived utterly under the mercies of nature.
But about the original question. I quote your first post in this thread:
Would "YOU" feel at a disadvantage in a survival situation with just a folder (your choice any type) instead of a fixed blade sheath knife i've noticed since i started reading this forum that there are a bunch of guy's that have much more bush skill than I. and some that seem to go almost ballistac at the sugestion of a folder as opposed to a large chopper.now dont get me wrong I prefer a sheath knife my self but if I got dumped in the boonies like Anthony Hopkins barring injury i think i would do ok what say you all
I believe most of us have and are still answering and debating that question. I say I would feel at a disadvantage, at a huge disadvantage. I've explained why that is: because fixed blades in general are much stronger, much more reliable, and much easier to maintain.
Depending on how you read the question it can go either way. A fixed blade is generally going to be stronger and less difficult to maintain than a folder; that's always going to be the case so there's not much point in discussing that aspect.
However, a folder can do many of the jobs a fixed blade can do and with a little thought, a folder can be used to make tools to do other jobs that would be reserved for a fixed blade. I would not feel at a disadvantage, I'd simply need to adjust my tactics.
However, a folder can do many of the jobs a fixed blade can do and with a little thought, a folder can be used to make tools to do other jobs that would be reserved for a fixed blade. I would not feel at a disadvantage, I'd simply need to adjust my tactics.
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Sorry to go off topic but do you carry a puukko? If so, who is the manufacturer?
I love the 'looks' of puukkos but I've never had the nerve to use one hard - I prefer Scandi blades with some kind of guard.
I very often carry a puukko. These days, the one I carry most often is a classic Tommipuukko handmade by Pentti Kaartinen. 9,5 cm of blade of high carbon steel sharp enough to make the air bleed.
No guard. You can find a photo of the knife and sheath at www.tommipuukko.com - it's the arkitommi model under the header "puukot." It's an excellent user knife at a reasonable price of under 100 €, and pretty to boot, but it's not bombproof. I would not recommend batoning with it, or prying with it. For that sort of thing, I would use something thicker and differently ground. Depending on what you mean by hard use, I might not even recommend it. Like I said, the smaller Scandi knives are in no way meant to be prying or batoning tools. The big leukus, hukaris and väkipuukkos, though, you can do whatever you feel like doing with. But if you just mean a lot of normal use, working wood, skinning game, stuff like that, then they are most excellent tools, and once you get used to not having a guard, you'll find you can use much more efficient grips for precise work without a choil or a guard in your hand's way.
I agree - knives are great largely because you can make many other tools with one. However, sometimes, in a survival situation, time is of the essence, and you may not have the time or materials to fashion new tools with your knife, be that a folder or a fixed blade of inconvenient size and strength. So, the wrong kind of knife may waste time when you don't have any, and that's, again, a disadvantage compared to having a knife that can pull off the job without having to make a different tool.
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If his thoughtfull wife had`t got him a knife for his birthday he wouldn`t have had anything
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I have a wood-handled Marttiini puukko with a carbon steel blade, approx 4" (~12 cm). It is a classic puukko shape with no guard. By 'hard use,' I meant hard cutting use, not prying or digging.
I've used it to cut 'fuzzy sticks' and slice up cordage, as well as light food preparation while camping, but again, I'm not confident I can use it exclusively without having a finger slip. For example, I would hate to use it for dressing large game when the knife is at an awkward angle and/or partially hidden inside the animal's abdomen.
I should add I'm not of the "all knives should have guards!" camp. I'm sure with enough practice, it's not a problem -- after all, Finns and Lapps have been using puukkos for ages.
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Helle I like your choice in cutting tool's if you should suddenly find your self feeling uncomfortable with any of them in the woods send them my way i'll gladly take them off your hands
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Helle I like your choice in cutting tool's if you should suddenly find your self feeling uncomfortable with any of them in the woods send them my way i'll gladly take them off your hands
Done, but it could be awhile.
Helle
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Who says you have to use the knife? In that situation using wedges to split the log, and driving them with you batoning branch seems like a much better option.
But what do i know. Im, like, 12.
Besides that, im just some jack-off from indiana. the closest thing iv ever seen to a forest is a soybean field.