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Touchy subject Folders & Survival
- Thread starter MIKE MACINTOSH
- Start date
Actually, Laplanders who live way above the Arctic Circle often carry a very large knife, that being the Leuku, often 7 to 10" long for chopping the small trees that grow there, like dwarf birch, and chopping reindeer bone among other things.
But one thing is particularly noteworthy: none of these people carry a folder, even when they are easily available, as they are in Lapland. I wonder why that is.
Given a choice, I'd take an axe for the tasks you describe. People keep telling me a knife is safer than an axe, but I've never had a safety problem with an axe and in the hands of someone who knows how to chop, it can cut a lot more wood faster. I'm not talking about 19" Hunter's axe that guys buy because they carry so easily; I'm talking about 25" and longer that allow for full two hand control and power.
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considering aboriginal people around the world where able to survive and flourish with fragile edged pieces of flint and obsididan, I think anything sharp that could be used to help you mak other tools would be beneficial of course for durability and time sake a stout fixed blade could do the work of several tools and perfprm tasks that I wouldn't risk with a folder.
Definitely! I use a 26" GB for regular tripping and when I spent a year in the bush 2 34" ers. One for limbing and cutting down trees for the cabin and winter wood and the other for splitting. With the short ones, hatchets and such, one miss and the blade can easily head towards the shins. Even with the 26" the blade heads for the toes. I like the 34", if and when I miss the blade misses me. We were originally talking folders and fixed. Though if you can - take an axe to the northern woods!
I think the single biggest reason people BREAK QUALITY knives while batoning is improper TECHNIQUE! Proper batoning involves hitting the spine either above the point to be cut or CLOSER to the handle, NOT THE TIP of the blade! It seems every time I've seen an account of a blade breaking, the baton struck the TIP of the blade while the person was holding the handle...
As to CHOPPERS, I feel EVERY knife may become a chopper! It's a matter of the grip and use of a lanyard that makes SMALL knives into choppers and BIG knives into 'better' choppers.
I actually consider my Becker Necker a worthy chopper with the proper grip and lanyard adjusted to my wrist to keep it in my hand. Most guys would NOT think of the diminutive Necker as a chopper! My favorite chopper is my BK-9 Combat Bowie however. But my first line choppers are my axes! LOL!
As to CHOPPERS, I feel EVERY knife may become a chopper! It's a matter of the grip and use of a lanyard that makes SMALL knives into choppers and BIG knives into 'better' choppers.
I actually consider my Becker Necker a worthy chopper with the proper grip and lanyard adjusted to my wrist to keep it in my hand. Most guys would NOT think of the diminutive Necker as a chopper!
My favorite chopper is my BK-9 Combat Bowie however. But my first line choppers are my axes! LOL!- Joined
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Id be fine with an OHT. Battoning is for loosers.
But one thing is particularly noteworthy: none of these people carry a folder, even when they are easily available, as they are in Lapland. I wonder why that is.
Try opening a folder at -40 F with a pair of MITTENS on!!!
There is no proper technique. I have battoned for 30 years and the vast majority is on the tip as that is whats exposed once sunk into the wood.
The handle is held and is not battoned as you will hit your hand if its a large piece of wood.
If you cant batton for fear of failure you need a better blade, plain and simple. I trust no folder and only a few fixed blades to take a proper batton beating.
For those who think battoning is nonsense show their bush inexperience and or have been blessed with a dry local or lacking of travel to highly moist environments.
Folders are not for survival. If you get caught out with one fine its better than nothing and you make due hopefully. Folders are great for EDC hell I carry one too but I dont begin to assume its even close to a primary bush blade.
Carry a quality fixed blade you can trust your life with.
Skam
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Yeah, I'm fine with an OHT as well. However, with frozen wood, it would be a very difficult job getting to the heart of a log for the dry wood, using a trekker. Not impossible, but it would take a lot of time and effort, which may not be available to you. That's when having a largish fixed blade or axe would be an advantage and bataning would be the method of choice with a fixed blade knife.
Try opening a folder at -40 F with a pair of MITTENS on!!!
Hey, Skammer, I've been meaning to ask you - what's your primary bush blade, as you call it? You seem like the kind of guy who understands the vast difference in durability between a folder and a fixed blade.
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Guy's this thred seem's to be drifting away from the origional question. which was if you were stuck in the woods like Hopkins in the edge. in an unplaned survival situation could you make it out with a folder The question is not about which is stronger,better,prettier or easier to clean,or even about which you would prefer but maybe more about your likely hood of haveing a a folder on you in an unplaned event and the training and skill to make it work for you, it's just a fact of life that most of us can't carry a sheath knife on us 24/7 & even carrying one in the passanger compartment might cause us legal problems
I think the single biggest reason people BREAK QUALITY knives while batoning is improper TECHNIQUE! Proper batoning involves hitting the spine either above the point to be cut or CLOSER to the handle, NOT THE TIP of the blade! It seems every time I've seen an account of a blade breaking, the baton struck the TIP of the blade while the person was holding the handle...
As to CHOPPERS, I feel EVERY knife may become a chopper! It's a matter of the grip and use of a lanyard that makes SMALL knives into choppers and BIG knives into 'better' choppers.
I actually consider my Becker Necker a worthy chopper with the proper grip and lanyard adjusted to my wrist to keep it in my hand. Most guys would NOT think of the diminutive Necker as a chopper!
True. I too hit the spine above the point of the cut when splitting wood, but once the blade is completely imbedded I find it easier and safer to hit the tip. This brings the baton further from my knife hand and is less awkward. If I am cutting branches I use the tip end only. If not I find that the branch gets in the way of the baton.
Thank you Plainsman,
I had never thought of nor tried using a lanyard. I just experimented on a piece of 2x2 and I can feel the advantage over no lanyard at all. It is nice to learn new options.
For a further explanation of my usage of a lanyard, a good reference would be Ron Hood's Woodsmaster videos. I tend to grip the rear end of the grip, often with just my thumb and first two or three fingers, LIGHTLY and rely on the lanyard to keep the knife secure. This adds more SNAP to the blade and even makes the little Becker Necker take DEEP bites with every swing.
I'm glad I could be of assistance!
Sidenote:
I also found an article, not the first I've seen, on batoning techniques and knife failures...I posted it as a separate thread.
Back to topic:
Also, I don't think of any knife as my primary, as what would happen if I lost all but one of my knives? Which ever one I still had on me becomes my primary!! Therefore, folders are just as important to me as fixed blades.
I'm glad I could be of assistance!
Sidenote:
I also found an article, not the first I've seen, on batoning techniques and knife failures...I posted it as a separate thread.
Back to topic:
Also, I don't think of any knife as my primary, as what would happen if I lost all but one of my knives? Which ever one I still had on me becomes my primary!! Therefore, folders are just as important to me as fixed blades.
Sorry Mike,
If this was your original question:
Would "YOU" feel at a disadvantage in a survival situation with just a folder (your choice any type) instead of a fixed blade sheath knife
I would feel at a disadvantage.
I would even feel at more of a disadvantage with a sharp rock and even more so with no cutting tool.
But hopefully I would make do.
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Actually, Laplanders who live way above the Arctic Circle often carry a very large knife, that being the Leuku, often 7 to 10" long for chopping the small trees that grow there, like dwarf birch, and chopping reindeer bone among other things.
But one thing is particularly noteworthy: none of these people carry a folder, even when they are easily available, as they are in Lapland. I wonder why that is.
Thats a pertty broad statement about them not carrying pocket knives how can you possibly say that do you check there pocket's its like saying all Irishmen eat lucky charm's??
I'd feel at a disadvantage with anything less then a rifle, tent, sleeping bag, hatchet, sharpening stone, fire starter, two knives, extra clothes, ect...
With that said I think when the time comes where you have to survive it'll be unexpected, and chances are you won't be carrying a large knife, survival kit, a fire starter, ect. You'll have the same items you put in your pocket every day...
In my case a wallet, folding knife, cell phone, and truck keys. I'm 99.9% confident I could survive with these items. Realistically I don't ever see myself getting lost (although stranded somehow is definitely more likely as I'm an outdoorsman).
In that case I'm likely to be carrying a few other things if I'm in the wilderness. Probably a lighter, multi tool, LED light, and fixed blade (although prob only around a 5-6" blade).
With that said I think when the time comes where you have to survive it'll be unexpected, and chances are you won't be carrying a large knife, survival kit, a fire starter, ect. You'll have the same items you put in your pocket every day...
In my case a wallet, folding knife, cell phone, and truck keys. I'm 99.9% confident I could survive with these items. Realistically I don't ever see myself getting lost (although stranded somehow is definitely more likely as I'm an outdoorsman).
In that case I'm likely to be carrying a few other things if I'm in the wilderness. Probably a lighter, multi tool, LED light, and fixed blade (although prob only around a 5-6" blade).
Thats a pertty broad statement about them not carrying pocket knives how can you possibly say that do you check there pocket's its like saying all Irishmen eat lucky charm's??
Well, let me rephrase: like in any place, there are people also in Lapland who will own and use folding knives for some tasks. But if you actually go there, get to know the people, and spend time around them, you'll find that whenever they're out in the wild with a knife, it'll be a fixed blade, oftentimes a large Leuku. For them, it is tradition, it is reasonable, it's just the normal state of affairs. It's also statistics. That's why I can say that. What they have in their pockets isn't that relevant, if you can see a large fixed blade knife hanging on their belts.
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Elen, the 'vastness' of that difference depends largely upon the fixed blade and the folder. There are some folders, the Kabar Mule for example, that I would stack up against almost any Scandi knife of comparable blade size in strength. In many respects it's stronger.
A lot depends upon the quality of the knife in question and how you use it.
Take the Buck 110 for example, one of the most common knives in America. In rural America in the 70's when I was a young kid virtually everyone had a Buck 110 on them. In the US military in the 80's it seemed like virtually everyone had a Buck folder on them. Since then many other models have come to the fore.
I have NEVER seen a Buck 110 locking mechanism break or fail except after abuse that would break any fixed bladed knife - we're talking serious abuse. The blade would break before the lock failed.
Broken blades were generally the result of abuse. Three of the most common ways that I've seen Buck 110 blades broken was:
1) trying to throw the knife
2) using the knife tip as a screwdriver
3) prying with the knife blade
Fixed blades can be drawn one handed from a sheath, usually, and are easier to deploy with thick gloves or mittens.
Most decent folders nowadays are one handed opening. They are legal in places for everyday carry that fixed blades are not. They can also be stored in a pocket without a sheath. They are very compact and can be worn without hinderence or notice so you always have them on you.
The main advantage that a 3-3/4" or 4" fixed blade has over a well built 3-3/4" lockblade folder is the fixed blades are a bit easier to clean out after messier jobs like dressing out a deer or cleaning out a fish. Some knives that use the 'linerlock' method can sometimes get enough gunk in the linerlock that you can't unlock the blade unless you clean them.