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Who is making your Nessie bro ?
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
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Touchy subject Folders & Survival
- Thread starter MIKE MACINTOSH
- Start date
Who is making your Nessie bro ?
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- Jun 25, 2007
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Fiddleback is making a Nessie for me and I can't wait. That would be my first custom and Nessie as well.
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- Apr 13, 2007
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Nice ! He does some great work, make sure and post some pics !!!!
Never bring a knife to a gun fight. Or to any other fight to which you could have brought a gun.
Realistically, think back to ALL the jobs you have performed with a knife.
How many of those could have been performed by a folder?
How many could have been performed with a saw blade on a folder?
How many could have been performed without a knife altogether?
I bet there aren't many that that REQURED a fixed blade at all!!
When in a survival situation, unless it means life or death, I don't think ANY OF US will be BATONING or STRESSING ANY knife we have with us! If we rely on that knife that much now in front of our computers, think of how well we will take care of it if it is a buffer between us and DEATH!
Sure I've batoned some of my knives to split wood for projects and to get to dry wood in the middle of a wet log. BUT, I wouldn't be doing it in a survival situation and risk breaking my only knife, UNLESS the dry wood in the middle meant the difference in fire and no fire in a wet cold environment. Even then, I'd make wedges to assist the splitting once it started to eliminate the danger to my knife!
So in my view, fixed bladed knives are not 'necessary' but what fun would that be! I usually have two to three knives ON ME at any given time. Two FOLDERS at a minimum supplemented by a fixed blade at time. My LAST DITCH knife is a diminutive SAK Executive which would allow me to create kindling, gut game and cut meat, cordage, etc. If it was the only knife I had, it would do 90%+ of the jobs I required!!
How many of those could have been performed by a folder?
How many could have been performed with a saw blade on a folder?
How many could have been performed without a knife altogether?
I bet there aren't many that that REQURED a fixed blade at all!!
When in a survival situation, unless it means life or death, I don't think ANY OF US will be BATONING or STRESSING ANY knife we have with us! If we rely on that knife that much now in front of our computers, think of how well we will take care of it if it is a buffer between us and DEATH!
Sure I've batoned some of my knives to split wood for projects and to get to dry wood in the middle of a wet log. BUT, I wouldn't be doing it in a survival situation and risk breaking my only knife, UNLESS the dry wood in the middle meant the difference in fire and no fire in a wet cold environment. Even then, I'd make wedges to assist the splitting once it started to eliminate the danger to my knife!
So in my view, fixed bladed knives are not 'necessary' but what fun would that be! I usually have two to three knives ON ME at any given time. Two FOLDERS at a minimum supplemented by a fixed blade at time. My LAST DITCH knife is a diminutive SAK Executive which would allow me to create kindling, gut game and cut meat, cordage, etc. If it was the only knife I had, it would do 90%+ of the jobs I required!!
My answer is also never and I use a folder all the time. When I was a kid back in the '60's i carried a stockman type slip-joint -- Imperial IIRC. The blades on that never folded up on me either. The whole knife folding issue is only an issue if you're stupid. Just a small amount of care and the knife won't be stressed such that it will close until you choose to close it.
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Hey it would be a boring world if we were all the same, some people like trucks and some sport cars, some like dogs and others cats, etc, etc so it's a good thing that some are happy and trust their folders, for me I'd just sooner have a small fixed !!!
I guess it stems from when I used to work at a coal mine, we used to improvise all the time there using wrenches as hammers and screwdrivers for chisels etc......if something could be broken then we'd break it !!!!
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I can't say never, but it only drew blood on one finger. It was an inexpensive linerlock and lesson learned.
I will carry a fixed blade when I can (national forest or private land), but mostly I use folders and in the last several years, they have been Victorinox SAKs w/saw. In the last few years, they have been Vic lock blade SAKs w/saw. Great knives that get the job done.
I will carry a fixed blade when I can (national forest or private land), but mostly I use folders and in the last several years, they have been Victorinox SAKs w/saw. In the last few years, they have been Vic lock blade SAKs w/saw. Great knives that get the job done.
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Thank the gods for unsubscribe.
So in my view, fixed bladed knives are not 'necessary' but what fun would that be! I usually have two to three knives ON ME at any given time. Two FOLDERS at a minimum supplemented by a fixed blade at time. My LAST DITCH knife is a diminutive SAK Executive which would allow me to create kindling, gut game and cut meat, cordage, etc. If it was the only knife I had, it would do 90%+ of the jobs I required!!
Heck, knives, folding or fixed, aren't 'necessary' for survival. People can and have managed without them for pretty amazingly long periods of time, sometimes making poor substitutes out of rocks or such. Nothing wrong with a SAK. I like them a lot myself. But the fact something isn't necessary doesn't mean it's not very useful. A strong fixed blade gives one options one wouldn't have with a folder.
Let's imagine, for example, that you fall through ice in the winter and end up in freezing water. The weight of your clothes and other things is trying to drag you to the bottom, so you reach for your EDC and try to use it as an ice pick to drag yourself up. Would you trust your folder to do this? Would you even get it open? If you could, would it take your weight after you've stabbed it in the ice? Maybe it would. Maybe it wouldn't. And before anyone asks, yes, this happened to me. I had a fixed blade. It got me out. Sure, it's never smart to walk on ice that may break, certainly not without an ice pick, certainly not alone without anyone to help you out with a stick or a rope. But we don't always have a choice, especially in a survival situation. In unfamiliar territory, at night, you may not even know you're walking on ice before it's too late.
But ultimately, of course, this is a matter of tastes and what is most practical to you. I wouldn't be afraid of going into a survival type situation with a SAK, or even without a knife. But I would call that a heck of a disadvantage compared to having a proper fixed blade.
Styker D,
What jobs would be so critical that would REQUIRE batoning? Short of having nothing but WET wood and needing the dry center for a fire, I can't think of any reasons to baton your only knife in a survival situation...Even then an SAK saw and a couple of trees close together will accomplish the same task!
I'm curious!
"What jobs would be so critical that would REQUIRE batoning?"
If the scenario was a survival situation, yes, a life or death situation -
I would likely find myself in a mixed woods or boreal forest with lots of evergreen trees and my first concerns would be to get a shelter up and fire going. I would look for a tight growth of evergreens and if they didn't bend then snap with the knife blade I would baton it. If I had to strip branches I'd put the main growth between me and the knife and pound it through. This gives me greater control then say swinging the knife like an axe and is safer also. I would also use it to split wood - wet or dry . I have used my knife this way for years and have yet to damage the knife or myself. This is the way I do things and yes there are numerous ways to accomplish the same task but this is my preference. Even if I were to attempt a bow or some such thing I would likely thin it down with a batoning method.
I took exception to the broad statement "I don't think ANY OF US will be BATONING or STRESSING ANY knife we have with us!" and sought to show a different point of view. Or perhaps I'm not like anyone else. ")
Thanks for inquiring.
If the scenario was a survival situation, yes, a life or death situation -
I would likely find myself in a mixed woods or boreal forest with lots of evergreen trees and my first concerns would be to get a shelter up and fire going. I would look for a tight growth of evergreens and if they didn't bend then snap with the knife blade I would baton it. If I had to strip branches I'd put the main growth between me and the knife and pound it through. This gives me greater control then say swinging the knife like an axe and is safer also. I would also use it to split wood - wet or dry . I have used my knife this way for years and have yet to damage the knife or myself. This is the way I do things and yes there are numerous ways to accomplish the same task but this is my preference. Even if I were to attempt a bow or some such thing I would likely thin it down with a batoning method.
I took exception to the broad statement "I don't think ANY OF US will be BATONING or STRESSING ANY knife we have with us!" and sought to show a different point of view. Or perhaps I'm not like anyone else. ")
Thanks for inquiring.
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how about this, lets look at people who live on the edge, the real edge, not the perceived for TV edge, Siberia, Yukon, NWT, Lapp landers, etc. What do they carry.
Most I have met, carry a small 3 or so inch fixed blade, not just for strength but because they can with no restrictions. I am willing to bet that a good mannix, benchmade or Almar folder in that same size range would do all that they do with that little fixed blade without any problem.
I have NEVER met a native who lives on or above the arctic Circle who carries a big chopper. NOT A ONE.
I have never met a native between the 15th latitudes who does not have or carry some sort of a chopper, like a Machete, if they are in a place where it would be needed.
Most I have met, carry a small 3 or so inch fixed blade, not just for strength but because they can with no restrictions. I am willing to bet that a good mannix, benchmade or Almar folder in that same size range would do all that they do with that little fixed blade without any problem.
I have NEVER met a native who lives on or above the arctic Circle who carries a big chopper. NOT A ONE.
I have never met a native between the 15th latitudes who does not have or carry some sort of a chopper, like a Machete, if they are in a place where it would be needed.
I'd have to say I agree with you in regards to having 'preferences'. I prefer to 'chop' with my knives in most situations as finding a suitable 'baton' is not always possible. Hence, 'chopping' is my preference, but I do 'baton' in certain situations. But I also try to find other means of performing the same job efficiently and safely.
In a survival situation where perhaps I only had a folder or a single fixed blade, I'd 'prefer' to use it as little as necessary and only when I found it absolutely necessary so as to not 'risk' losing or damaging it or risk injuring myself.
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- Jun 24, 2003
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There seems to be some sort of 'orthodoxy' that has developed on these matters in the last decade or so, and some of it before that. Like all things of this sort, such 'sage wisdom' is often more just opinion and fad than wisdom.
A few points:
The need for 'batoning' is largely overrated. A knife's primary job should be to cut, which is what it is used for 99.99% of the time.
Many of these fixed blade scandi knives everyone loves are really not that good at 'batoning'. That is a good way to snap the blade, and I saved a photo of someone's $50 Helle that snapped doing just that. I know of many folders that are tougher and can take batoning, such as the RAT folder and Kabar Mule folder. Note: Well tempered AUS-8A (.75% carbon content), unlike some of the 'better' wundersteels, can generally take a beating without snapping, yet still can dress out and skin a deer without the need for resharpening. Be sure that your folder has a steel pivot pin, not a brass one, if you plan on abusing it in such a manner.
As for large 'choppers' that depends upon what your vision of a 'chopper' is. An axe? A hatchet? A 9" knife? All of those are popular in places like Alaska. Many in the Alaskan bush and the Canadian north consider an axe absolutely essential. Many of the Inuit ulu's (the real ones, not the tourist junk) are made from things like skill saw blades and often have 6" blades. Info from the knife industry I've heard is that knives like the the Cold Steel Trailmaster (9" blade) are some of the more popular knives with some people in places like Alaska, such as with hunters and guides.
The machete countries I have noticed tend to have an abundance of machetes but high quality smaller knives are often hard to get in decent condition and well prized. Small pocket knives, like the old 'stockman' style, seem to be used a lot and can be handily kept in a pocket.
To get a perspective of preferences of those that lived well before my time, I was watching some ancient footage of the Alaskan Scouts of WWII, paying close attention to the gear that they favored back then. Every one of them was packing a blade at least 6" in length (they carried their own gear). Many of the old timers like Brad Angier and men of his era seemed to also often prefer 6" knives as much as 4" blades. The 'essential' survival blade amongst many of the old time northern woodsmen wasn't a knife but an axe. Colorful characters like 'Deep River Jim' and 'Grey Owl' come to mind.
One of the most prolific single models of any knife in history, probably matched in raw numbers only by AK-47 bayonets and the Roman Gladius, is the Buck 110, a 3-3/4" folding lockblade. The 16 millionth Buck 110 was made in 2005. That knife has probably equipped more hunters, campers, sailors, and soldiers than any knife in history. A deer hunter in Alaska a couple of years ago managed to miraculously fight off a grizzly with his Buck 110 a couple of years ago (he was jumped while dressing out the deer). He tried to get his rifle, but couldn't and the muscles and other tissue in his arm was so shredded his hand was essentially 'locked' around the knife, so he just fought for his life with what he had.
*************
A few points:
The need for 'batoning' is largely overrated. A knife's primary job should be to cut, which is what it is used for 99.99% of the time.
Many of these fixed blade scandi knives everyone loves are really not that good at 'batoning'. That is a good way to snap the blade, and I saved a photo of someone's $50 Helle that snapped doing just that. I know of many folders that are tougher and can take batoning, such as the RAT folder and Kabar Mule folder. Note: Well tempered AUS-8A (.75% carbon content), unlike some of the 'better' wundersteels, can generally take a beating without snapping, yet still can dress out and skin a deer without the need for resharpening. Be sure that your folder has a steel pivot pin, not a brass one, if you plan on abusing it in such a manner.
As for large 'choppers' that depends upon what your vision of a 'chopper' is. An axe? A hatchet? A 9" knife? All of those are popular in places like Alaska. Many in the Alaskan bush and the Canadian north consider an axe absolutely essential. Many of the Inuit ulu's (the real ones, not the tourist junk) are made from things like skill saw blades and often have 6" blades. Info from the knife industry I've heard is that knives like the the Cold Steel Trailmaster (9" blade) are some of the more popular knives with some people in places like Alaska, such as with hunters and guides.
The machete countries I have noticed tend to have an abundance of machetes but high quality smaller knives are often hard to get in decent condition and well prized. Small pocket knives, like the old 'stockman' style, seem to be used a lot and can be handily kept in a pocket.
To get a perspective of preferences of those that lived well before my time, I was watching some ancient footage of the Alaskan Scouts of WWII, paying close attention to the gear that they favored back then. Every one of them was packing a blade at least 6" in length (they carried their own gear). Many of the old timers like Brad Angier and men of his era seemed to also often prefer 6" knives as much as 4" blades. The 'essential' survival blade amongst many of the old time northern woodsmen wasn't a knife but an axe. Colorful characters like 'Deep River Jim' and 'Grey Owl' come to mind.
One of the most prolific single models of any knife in history, probably matched in raw numbers only by AK-47 bayonets and the Roman Gladius, is the Buck 110, a 3-3/4" folding lockblade. The 16 millionth Buck 110 was made in 2005. That knife has probably equipped more hunters, campers, sailors, and soldiers than any knife in history. A deer hunter in Alaska a couple of years ago managed to miraculously fight off a grizzly with his Buck 110 a couple of years ago (he was jumped while dressing out the deer). He tried to get his rifle, but couldn't and the muscles and other tissue in his arm was so shredded his hand was essentially 'locked' around the knife, so he just fought for his life with what he had.
*************
Ya, I used to carry my Blackjack MK1. It had a great design for chopping and that's how I used it. Now my knife of choice is the Falkniven S1 but I find it hard on the wrist for chopping so for a large job I baton. For fine work I use a Spyderco or perhaps a Coldsteel Voyager. It all depends on the need, the knife and what I have with me at the time. I wish I could find one knife that I felt was perfect for everything; but then as humans there is always the desire for something more. Now back to the original question: Folder or Fixed in a survival situation - I'd like to have my S1.
Perhaps the reason we say a knife has a Fixed Blade is because those of us who batoned had to fix it one too many times.