Tough thoughts on tough steels.

Mike makes a nice knife for a very reasonable price. I carry the same pattern you have but mine has "worm grooved" bone. It's the bottom one in the pic.

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folder from Mike Alsdorf with black-lip pearl inlays
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OH 'ell yah !
That's gorgeous. Oops . . . did I just use the "G" word ???
Man that looks like it just came to earth in the pocket of a person from outer space.
 
Stay AWAY from climbing LOL
Wowbagger said:
Probably a stupid thing to do on my part (The Chef offered that view on more than one occasion) but it is the fearless scientist in me . . . ever ready " to go where no man has gone before" for the sake of knowledge.

Probably a good thing I am not a climber. I would be watching the cracks in my pitons to see just how far they would go before they broke.
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Blues , the insignio is fine looking blade. I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for one. Maybe with inlays for grip if they come with inlays.
 
^Its the handle that stands out, it looks like it fills the hand nicely. What steel is it?
 
Morrow said:
Mike makes a nice knife for a very reasonable price. I carry the same pattern you have but mine has "worm grooved" bone. It's the bottom one in the pic.

P1010023-1.jpg
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Yep, Mike sure knows how to make a knife alright! He's a very respectable maker and is a great guy to talk to. That's a nice trio you've got there Brother:thumbup:

shinyedges said:
Blues , the insignio is fine looking blade. I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for one. Maybe with inlays for grip if they come with inlays.
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I'd recomend one with Micarta inlays if you are more of a work-with-your-hands kinda guy:D
 
^ ding ding ding, Micarta inlays sounds like a winner.
 
Like most of Mike's knives before he started using CPM-154, it's 440C. I'm not much of steel snob when it comes to traditional patterns. I completely understand chasing the "best" steels is just one facet of our hobby but in the traditional folder arena I don't give it much thought. As long as the steel is done correctly I don't really care. All I usually ask is I don't want anything shiny on my knives. Mike and I went back and forth on the above knife only because he didn't want to do a satin finish on the blades. I'm was surprised when the knife arrived to see a satin finished bolster and cap because he didn't want to do it. :) He's a very nice guy and this has me wanting to pick another up from him.

EDIT: I'm also remembering me asking for black linen micarta and Mike told me "no" as he doesn't like the way it shows. I'm more than happy with the canvas micarta he used.
 
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440c isn't a bad steel, I'm willing to bet a man who makes knives like his, knows how to get the most out of it. Bladeforums might be the single worst thing for a mans wallet. Sigh. I'll be checking out mikes knives as well.
Morrow said:
Like most of Mike's knives before he started using CPM-154, it's 440C. I'm not much of steel snob when it comes to traditional patterns. I completely understand chasing the "best" steels is just one facet of our hobby but in the traditional folder arena I don't give it much thought. As long as the steel is done correctly I don't really care. All I usually ask is I don't want anything shiny on my knives. Mike and I went back and forth on the above knife only because he didn't want to do a satin finish on the blades. I'm was surprised when the knife arrived to see a satin finished bolster and cap because he didn't want to do it. :) He's a very nice guy and this has me wanting to pick another up from him. :)
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shinyedges said:
^ ding ding ding, Micarta inlays sounds like a winner.
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Here's a little eye candy;)

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Morrow said:
Like most of Mike's knives before he started using CPM-154, it's 440C. I'm not much of steel snob when it comes to traditional patterns. I completely understand chasing the "best" steels is just one facet of our hobby but in the traditional folder arena I don't give it much thought. As long as the steel is done correctly I don't really care. All I usually ask is I don't want anything shiny on my knives. Mike and I went back and forth on the above knife only because he didn't want to do a satin finish on the blades. I'm was surprised when the knife arrived to see a satin finished bolster and cap because he didn't want to do it. :) He's a very nice guy and this has me wanting to pick another up from him. :)
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I've been considering the same thing. I've been longing for a traditional knife with a stag handle, and I think I might have to give the job to Mike. Jim Dunlap is another honorable mention when it comes to good traditional knives, he's a great guy!
 
Nice pic, it has enough up sweep to remove a backstrap. Looks very utilitarian.
 
shinyedges said:
Been thinking about tough steels lately, when I first got into hard use fixed blades busse blades were the cats meow. I used my first busse an ASH 1 at .32 thickness, to cut fruit and couldn't believe how poorly it sliced (although looking back I should have known due to thickness, bare with me here its a journey). So moving along I've started liking knives that actually cut and slice well that are "tough", I guess I realized I rarely attempted to cut a car in half and used my knives for cutting and slicing more.

When steel is thick as hell it will be difficult to break, 440a,c,b 420hc, s30v ... whatever make it a third of an inch thick and it will hold your body weight easily. A super tough steel that super thick is just mind boggling to me now a days. I guess for me the cats meow now a days is, cuts and slices like the dickens and *tough* and a fraction of the thickness of a freaking pry bar.

I still like to be rough with my knives, occasionally ill give one a *very* short toss into some wood, light batonning, light chopping and so forth. Anyway, more to the point I think tough steels should be showcased in knives by producing thinner knives that cut and slice well. If a steel is truly tough, take it down to geometry that excels at knife tasks.

I realize production blades are thick as hell because people are stupid and break everything (I was one of those destructive dudes too) so I get why they are stupid thick.

I picked up a big Chris knife the other day, and let me tell you HOLY freaking smokes batman the level of sharpness and geometry of his blade makes for a knife that really opened my eyes to what knives are actually used for, cutting , slicing, piercing. A side effect of excellent knife geometry is weight reduction, the knife weighs just over 4 ounces, it literally disappears when worn, making it able to be carried longer more comfortably and more OFTEN.


This isn't a diss to any manufacturers who make thick knives believe me, they all have their place. This is more just thoughts and a personal progression in our hobby.

I don't know if what I'm trying to convey came out clear, if not I'm sorry. Thoughts?
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FOR cutting fruits try a mora or a big thinner chef knife , do not go to ASH1 .:D

poor performance ？ i call it poor choice .

tough is a word you do not fully understand now , man.
 
Knives are for cutting and slicing... and I understand toughness in the context its being used just fine. Don't like what's being said in this thread your NOT obligated to reply.

What exactly is an ASH1 good at cutting? Please do tell?

Like I said in my OP , I don't chop cars so you're right for slicing and cutting an ASH 1 is a poor choice.

If your coming into this thread to insult me please don't clutter up the thread.
dingy said:
FOR cutting fruits try a mora or a big thinner chef knife , do not go to ASH1 .:D

poor performance ？ i call it poor choice .

tough is a word you do not fully understand now , man.
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If you cut and slice sure go with a thin blade. Bob Kramer's chefs Zwilling is my choice, as I cannot afford his custom one :)
If you camp, I'd go thicker. IMO 5" long about .185" thick is the way to go. Here my choice is 3v (e.g., Fehrman) or INFI (Busse).
If you want your knife to compete with your axe, I'd go Busse and go thick.
And I'd still take an axe. In that dept. I do with Council Tool Velvicut :)
 
shinyedges said:
Knives are for cutting and slicing... and I understand toughness in the context its being used just fine. Don't like what's being said in this thread your NOT obligated to reply.

What exactly is an ASH1 good at cutting? Please do tell?

Like I said in my OP , I don't chop cars so you're right for slicing and cutting an ASH 1 is a poor choice.

If your coming into this thread to insult me please don't clutter up the thread.
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do you felts any insults from my post ? if you feels it , i am sorry about that .

knife are for cutting and slicing , that is not wrong , but not a complete answer.

some knives are not designed only to cutting and slicing , i have some choppers , those things are not good at fine cutting and slicing.

for example i have ontario sp10 , this knife is not a good cutter , but it is a good knife . there are lots of thick and heavy knives , are not good at cutting and slicing .

there is not the fault of ash1 being thick , you are wrong at chosing .

do you still feel insult from me ? take it easy , no one wanna make you hurt . just some sort of grow up man.

good luck.
 
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I'm not sure if your English is very bad or your being rude on purpose telling me to grow up? Either way READ the OP it specifically talks about durable tough steels being used in very thick stock, and myself and others would like to see tough steels showcased in thinner stock where the toughness can shine, and the knife can perform like a knife should.

Different knives have different purposes, what purpose does a 0.32 inch thick knife have? With less than a 7in blade. Lets see

Chopping? Nope an axe will EASILY out chop a short blade.

Cutting or slicing ? Nope

Prying? To some degree it can pry

Open up cars? Professionals use the life of jaws along with real pry bars. So nope

There is uses for a knife .32in thick, but I had an epiphany after realizing how often I needed a knife that thick (NEVER)

that's the point of this thread, maybe you missed it? I KNOW the ash sucks at cutting and slicing, I KNOW it was a poor choice for the job, I didn't really have a purpose or real use for it other than cool factor.

This thread specifically talks about, how tough steels are used in stock thicknesses that are very poor cutting tools. And I and apparently other people as well would like to see tough steels used in thinner stock and geometry, where the toughness of the steel can be shown.



Does that make sense?


I wont take up too much of the thread explaining this too you. If you don't understand or don't want to understand that's your prerogative. You've stated your opinion. Thanks
dingy said:
do you felts any insults from my post ? if you feels it , i am sorry about that .

knife are for cutting and slicing , that is not wrong , but not a complete answer.

some knives are not designed only to cutting and slicing , i have some choppers , those things are not good at fine cutting and slicing.

there is not the fault of ash1 , you are wrong at chosing .

there are lots of thick and heavy knives , are not good at cutting and slicing .

do you still feel insult from me ? take it easy , just some sort of grow up man.

good luck.
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shinyedges said:
I'm not sure if your English is very bad or your being rude on purpose telling me to grow up? Either way READ the OP it specifically talks about durable tough steels being used in very thick stock, and myself and others would like to see tough steels showcased in thinner stock where the toughness can shine, and the knife can perform like a knife should.

Different knives have different purposes, what purpose does a 0.32 inch thick knife have? With less than a 7in blade. Lets see

Chopping? Nope an axe will EASILY out chop a short blade.

Cutting or slicing ? Nope

Prying? To some degree it can pry

Open up cars? Professionals use the life of jaws along with real pry bars. So nope

There is uses for a knife .32in thick, but I had an epiphany after realizing how often I needed a knife that thick (NEVER)

that's the point of this thread, maybe you missed it? I KNOW the ash sucks at cutting and slicing, I KNOW it was a poor choice for the job, I didn't really have a purpose or real use for it other than cool factor.

This thread specifically talks about, how tough steels are used in stock thicknesses that are very poor cutting tools. And I and apparently other people as well would like to see tough steels used in thinner stock and geometry, where the toughness of the steel can be shown.

Does that make sense?
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You are over reacting .

there are things you can not fully understand , right ? you are not GOD.
so , you use ash1 cut fruits felts frustrated and i am here to talk to you :there is no wrong to ash1 , you just need getting some philosophy on tools.

every day , we getting old and grows up , that is a good thing that we still can learn and breathe.

take it easy , i am not here to hurt you .

the last posts in this thread from me , good luck , bye.

dingy.
 
Ooooook...bye.
dingy said:
You are over reacting .

there are things you can not fully understand , right ? you are not GOD.
so , you use ash1 cut fruits felts frustrated and i am here to talk to you :there is no wrong to ash1 , you just need getting some philosophy on tools.

every day , we getting old and grows up , that is a good thing that we still can learn and breathe.

take it easy , i am not here to hurt you .

the last posts in this thread from me , good luck , bye.

dingy.
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Perhaps I should clarify, this thread isn't about any knife in particular although several examples have been used. This thread is about my thoughts on tough steels being used in super thick stock and geometry.

I would like to see tough steels, that have high edge stability, lateral and torsional strength, impact resistance and ill throw edge retention in because typically tough steels now a days have good edge retention as well, in THINNER geometry so that the strengths and advantages of the steels can be seen over an inferior steel.

Take a half inch thick piece of 420, 440, 5160, 1095, 3v, infi... whatever and they will all have poor cutting capabilities, they will all be hard to break, they will all be heavy.

Thin them down and let the tough steels stand out, and shine. Hope that clears up what ever misconceptions anyone has.

These are my thoughts, never did I claim to be god, I'm not quite sure what that dude is talking about.
 
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