Tough thoughts on tough steels.

Blues Bender,

I've been longing for a traditional knife with a stag handle,
Click to expand...

I was going to shut up and stop hogging the thread but since you mentioned traditional stag I just had to show what came in the mail yesterday.

I was considering a GEC but I wanted a warmer looking stag. The GEC stag for this style seems to be black and white basically. I looked at this Case for a month mulling over handle materials and CV v.s. SS. I couldn't help but think SS just made more sense for this knife.

Up until this year I never really gave stag much of a look but at the beginning of this year I received a Boker and they sent the right knife but with the wrong handle material. I ordered Green bone and they sent stag. I nearly sent it back. Then I realized what I had.
1. a considerably more expensive knife for a give away price and
2. a really beautiful classic knife that was beginning to grow on me. I kept it and ordered another Boker in green bone from a more conscientious vendor.

So the more I looked at this style of Case knife the more I could only see having the stag. And the knife is . . .
Can't be too much more traditional than . . .
A Case Trapper in Prime Stag
(it isn't as orange as in these photos. More white, tans and brown with a little black.
Some stag creeps me out but I really like the example I received.
PS: Case seems to really have it together and is working hard to make well executed knives in this price point. I keep coming back to them this year.

Blues
It will be fun to see what you get from the big dogs.



 
Last edited:
I don't abuse my knives, but things I own tend to break; I guess I'm just clumsy. Because of this I prefer a tougher and thicker blade even if it won't cut as well. I even apply this to traditional knives; the only stockman I own is a Buck 301. :p
 
Kwon Kwang said:
I don't abuse my knives, but things I own tend to break; I guess I'm just clumsy. Because of this I prefer a tougher and thicker blade even if it won't cut as well. I even apply this to traditional knives; the only stockman I own is a Buck 301. :p
Click to expand...

A knife that doesn't cut very well but still cuts nevertheless will be better at cutting than a broken knife...
 
funny, that there is two concurrent threads on thickness of knives. There is a need for thick and there is a need for thin. The only knives that get to half an inch thick regularly are Kukris and they tend to be straight out chopper with very thick edges. But a knife can be thick and be a better cutter than what people think is a cutter. Most competition cutters are 0.25 to 0.3" thick. They are flat ground and nearly two inches wide. This is a great blade profile for cutting. Is it a tomato slicer? no, but then again, that is what my kitchen knives do.

I guess the definition of thick changes with the width of the blade for me. It's more about geometry than it is how thick it is.
 
Cobalt said:
funny, that there is two concurrent threads on thickness of knives. There is a need for thick and there is a need for thin. The only knives that get to half an inch thick regularly are Kukris and they tend to be straight out chopper with very thick edges. But a knife can be thick and be a better cutter than what people think is a cutter. Most competition cutters are 0.25 to 0.3" thick. They are flat ground and nearly two inches wide. This is a great blade profile for cutting. Is it a tomato slicer? no, but then again, that is what my kitchen knives do.

I guess the definition of thick changes with the width of the blade for me. It's more about geometry than it is how thick it is.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
shinyedges said:
Been thinking about tough steels lately, when I first got into hard use fixed blades busse blades were the cats meow. I used my first busse an ASH 1 at .32 thickness, to cut fruit and couldn't believe how poorly it sliced (although looking back I should have known due to thickness, bare with me here its a journey). So moving along I've started liking knives that actually cut and slice well that are "tough", I guess I realized I rarely attempted to cut a car in half and used my knives for cutting and slicing more.

When steel is thick as hell it will be difficult to break, 440a,c,b 420hc, s30v ... whatever make it a third of an inch thick and it will hold your body weight easily. A super tough steel that super thick is just mind boggling to me now a days. I guess for me the cats meow now a days is, cuts and slices like the dickens and *tough* and a fraction of the thickness of a freaking pry bar.

I still like to be rough with my knives, occasionally ill give one a *very* short toss into some wood, light batonning, light chopping and so forth. Anyway, more to the point I think tough steels should be showcased in knives by producing thinner knives that cut and slice well. If a steel is truly tough, take it down to geometry that excels at knife tasks.

I realize production blades are thick as hell because people are stupid and break everything (I was one of those destructive dudes too) so I get why they are stupid thick.

I picked up a big Chris knife the other day, and let me tell you HOLY freaking smokes batman the level of sharpness and geometry of his blade makes for a knife that really opened my eyes to what knives are actually used for, cutting , slicing, piercing. A side effect of excellent knife geometry is weight reduction, the knife weighs just over 4 ounces, it literally disappears when worn, making it able to be carried longer more comfortably and more OFTEN.


This isn't a diss to any manufacturers who make thick knives believe me, they all have their place. This is more just thoughts and a personal progression in our hobby.

I don't know if what I'm trying to convey came out clear, if not I'm sorry. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

When I started reading this post one name came to mind. And then boom, you mentioned him: big chris. What he is doing is amazing. I want to give one of his knives a try!

Another thing to consider is the edge profile. I've got an Esee 4 that did not cut very well. Thinned out the edge to about double what it was and now the thing cuts much better. Now do that with 3v and you can go even thinner!
 
Big Chris knives are an excellent example of using modern tough steels in geometry that makes you say wow. Truly amazing for me as I've only had production blades. Thinning the edge of knives definitely helps ALOT josh at razor edge knives does a fantastic job of this, and gets amazing results.
craytab said:
When I started reading this post one name came to mind. And then boom, you mentioned him: big chris. What he is doing is amazing. I want to give one of his knives a try!

Another thing to consider is the edge profile. I've got an Esee 4 that did not cut very well. Thinned out the edge to about double what it was and now the thing cuts much better. Now do that with 3v and you can go even thinner!
Click to expand...
 
While this thread does pertain to thickness, that is not the sole topic of this thread. Its also about my wanting to see tough steels used in a manner that the toughness of the steel is showcased through better cutting while maintaining toughness. Some people got where I'm coming from, others apparently didn't. That's ok I asked for thoughts from other people and am willing to listen to them, if you don't get my point or agree with it that's ok... by the way geometry isn't just about EDGE geometry its about the Entire knife.

Also I've already stated what you just wrote in this thread, different knives have different purposes and thick knives have a purpose. Seems your trying to repeat the same things I've already said. The OP is MY thoughts and revolve around MY uses, I have no use for a short blade .32 inches thick and gave a short timeline or progression if you will of ME realizing that thick (which is subjective) knives have little purpose in my life.

As such I slowly started appreciating knives with cutting performance in mind, and noticed many tough steels being used in thickness that ANY steel would be *TOUGH* to break. A tough steel doesn't have to always be super freaking thick. Anyway if your still in opposition to my thoughts that tough steels don't need to be a 1/3 of an inch thick than that's fine. Enjoy your knives and I hope they work for YOUR purpose.

Edit to add, on second thought it does have ALOT to do with thickness lol your right. Perhaps two threads on thickness is because there are some VERY thick knives being produced. You don't have to read this thread or the other...

Cobalt said:
funny, that there is two concurrent threads on thickness of knives. There is a need for thick and there is a need for thin. The only knives that get to half an inch thick regularly are Kukris and they tend to be straight out chopper with very thick edges. But a knife can be thick and be a better cutter than what people think is a cutter. Most competition cutters are 0.25 to 0.3" thick. They are flat ground and nearly two inches wide. This is a great blade profile for cutting. Is it a tomato slicer? no, but then again, that is what my kitchen knives do.

I guess the definition of thick changes with the width of the blade for me. It's more about geometry than it is how thick it is.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
No, I totally agree with you that tough steels should come thin. I have no need for a 3/8" thick knife. With a tough steel 3/16" to 1/4" thick is more than enough. I am also not a fan of sub 1/8" thick knives.
 
This guy should be here soon... I have enough CPM4V to make 3 more. This will probably end up becoming a personal EDC.

 
I agree with your thickness ranges as well, maybe when I'm an old man and only peel fruit ill go thinner:D
Cobalt said:
No, I totally agree with you that tough steels should come thin. I have no need for a 3/8" thick knife. With a tough steel 3/16" to 1/4" thick is more than enough. I am also not a fan of sub 1/8" thick knives.
Click to expand...
 
Big Chris has his 3V heat treat and temper down. I thought I got my knives sharp until I got my first Big Chris. It'll cut you if you look at it wrong!
 
Absolutely agree
nickites said:
Big Chris has his 3V heat treat and temper down. I thought I got my knives sharp until I got my first Big Chris. It'll cut you if you look at it wrong!
Click to expand...
 
It seems that some steels should allow you to use a thinner blade and maintain adequate strength. I found it interesting to read BRK catalog descriptions of their various models and for some of the thinner models they explained that using 3V steel they could maintain strength for the thinner blades.

I was thinking about the knives that I typically use. Most of my EDC is with Para2 or Manix2 and neither of them seems too thick to me. My ZT 0561 OTOH does seem pretty thick. Cutting an apple or some thick cardboard I can really tell if a blade is too thick or not. Cutting rope, string, tape, even cutting softer food, it doesn't seem to matter.

I have only broken one knife, a thin cheap carbon blade utility knife. I have an old traditional that was a cast-off by my father, its main blade has the tip broken off. Generally I am pretty careful with my knives although I want them to be able to do whatever I might need them to do. The fixed blade utility knife was clearly not up to the task, it broke just slicing through a thin cardboard box.

I read the specs for various fixed blades and many of them do seem to be pretty thick. I think the thickness at the edge probably has more influence on cutting ability depending on the material being cut.

I think there is a lot more study to be done on how much edge thickness is needed for various uses and various steels. Some of what I read seems to disagree about how much edge thickness you need. I watch for some kind of resolution or consensus on edge thickness so I can sharpen my knives accordingly. It seems there are too many variables in steel, heat treat, edge grind, and just how you do use the knife for the answers to be easy.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top