Triad lock vs...

[100eyes]

Saying someone don't like a AUS8 because they can't sharpen is a bit of an overstatement IMO. I like thin edges and AUS8 roles to quick for my uses, still not a crappy steel, but not what I am looking for.

To clarify, my point was that those who consider older steels like AUS-8 or 440C or w/e to be "low end" don't know how to sharpen, because if they actually did use and sharpen their knives(or knives in question), they would know it's not low end and wouldn't overlook the entire design of a knife because the steel isn't what happens to be the newst one this month.

 

[hardheart]

I know how to sharpen, I don't care much for AUS8. I can get it to split hairs, but I can get S125V, H-1, and 3V to do the same. It does not have the wear resistance, corrosion resistance, or toughness to match those, and there are other steels with a better balance of those three. Is AUS8 higher end than S30V, M390, Elmax, CPM154, BG-42, etc? Basically, AUS8 has never been a selling point. I have owned many knives with it, and used them well. But that doesn't elevate AUS8, it just means the high end steels aren't really that critical most of the time. It's low end, but low end works just fine.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Seems the thread has gone off from lock to steel

Low end for BF member = high end for average joe that thinks Standard SAKs are high end
These people usually have knives so dull that wear resistance & toughness doesn't matter, as there'll be too much steel behind the edge

 

[swegeek]

People will love to bash on this, but I would group AUS8 together with some of the other common steels out there, like 440C, Sandvik 14C28N, 8Cr13MoV, VG10 and even S30V to some extent. There's some slight differences in corrosion resistance, toughness, edge retention, sharpenability and overall performance; but nothing that really warrants an extra $50 between the one or the other. What I can say is VG10 has the best overall performance of the bunch and S30V the best edge retention, but that's about it. I wouldn't recommend any of my friends to dish out the cash to get VG10 instead of AUS8 cause frankly I don't see the difference in my everyday usage (this is just my opinion and YMMV).

And it's funny to me that some would argue against the need of a strong lock and then argue for a very, very small real world difference in the common steels out there; saying AUS8 will roll too easy and whatnot. I mean, I know I need a good lock if I'm doing some wood carving cause most locks will develop both lateral and vertical blade play or wear quite a bit just from doing simple every day medium duty tasks in the backyard. A steel that wont roll is however something I've rarely found any usage for when I'm not deliberately abusing the knife, not even in the countless cheapo Sandvik 12C27 Moras (and I've used up plenty enough of those to know the limits with my eyes closed, doing everything from food prep and gutting fish to banging chips out of cinder blocks and opening paint cans with it). All the steels mentioned above, including Sandvik 12C27, will imo hold a solid edge unless you profile them to a razor edge or try to cut steel or rock with it... and why would someone even do that with a $100 or even a $50 knife??? And if they do, then odds are that their VG10 will roll just as easily and their S30V will chip out on them so where does that leave us? It means they're paying double the money for a steel that will perform better in a extremely narrow spectrum of abuse where "lower end" steels will roll and "medium" steels wont. Their inproper usage have to be just right for it to make any difference and they're paying a premium for it. They're literally paying an extra $50 to be able to cut a slightly thicker dimension electrical wire. Or $50 to be able to apply a tad bit more sideways pressure if it gets stuck in a stubborn tree knot (which is something you shouldn't do anyways). If that's how someone uses a $100 (or more) knife then he's got no right to poke fun at people who likes to cut branches or whatever with their folders without having the locks transformed into a deformed, beaten up mess. They're using a) a lock that can't handle the abuse b) with a steel that can just barely handle a tiny bit more abuse, and c) with a pricetag that doesn't warrant any abuse at all. I don't get it...

That said. If I want a dress knife or tactical knife, then VG10 and S30V will do the trick. Packaging them in a thicker stock (massive) would also warrant a higher pricetag. I'm simply NOT gonna go beat on a 3 mm thick $110 G10 Endura in my backyard though. If someone out there thinks AUS8 rolling too easy or not is the best argument in that debate they'd better think again.

That happens a lot with Cold Steel and Strider and some others.

Lots of stories, parroting and other made up BS by people who have never even been in the same room with one of those knives let alone owned one.

They read a few forum posts and manufacture their own BS.....

Would these be the ones who opens an argument with "I've owned several Sebenza's and Striders and have no less than a thousand knives of which more than half are Spydercos"? I think I've run into a couple of those...

The great irony of it all is that these are exactly the type of users who would love the kind of usable value Demko designed Cold Steels offer.

I just found a new siggie. :thumbup:

Cool.

Its human nature I think. Scientists, historians and archaeologists have been found to cling to old 'approved of' view points on more than one occasion not able to truly follow the facts where they lead them. Many things can contribute to their inability to step outside the box and view things in a different way. Religious beliefs are one such thing that gets in the way and in some ways I see almost zealot religious following behavior in some crowds of fans for knives. We won't get into name calling but when someone has a boxed in view of the world and something challenges that they either reject and cover up the findings indicating this or they try to change them to fit their paradigm of the world and how it works.

If the people viewing any knife were to simply forget the name on it and look at the knife only for what you see before you sticking with just the facts and not emotional attachment they may see the knife for what is there and what it by itself brings to the table. Look at the knives you love with the same eyes you use to scrutinize and pick apart the knives and companies you hate and it may help also. This is what I would say to people that have trouble following the facts where they lead them.

^This.

 

[Ankerson]

Its human nature I think. Scientists, historians and archaeologists have been found to cling to old 'approved of' view points on more than one occasion not able to truly follow the facts where they lead them. Many things can contribute to their inability to step outside the box and view things in a different way. Religious beliefs are one such thing that gets in the way and in some ways I see almost zealot religious following behavior in some crowds of fans for knives. We won't get into name calling but when someone has a boxed in view of the world and something challenges that they either reject and cover up the findings indicating this or they try to change them to fit their paradigm of the world and how it works.

If the people viewing any knife were to simply forget the name on it and look at the knife only for what you see before you sticking with just the facts and not emotional attachment they may see the knife for what is there and what it by itself brings to the table. Look at the knives you love with the same eyes you use to scrutinize and pick apart the knives and companies you hate and it may help also. This is what I would say to people that have trouble following the facts where they lead them.

Thinking or stepping outside the box is just something most people can't do for a variety of reasons.

There are Zealot followers for a ton of different products ect and nothing would ever change their minds because they would never admit they are wrong.

Heaven forbid something would happen to interfere with their own little perfect world... The Box..... Facts mean nothing compared to Urban legends, hearsay, BS opinions, fanboyism ect...

 

[gooeytek]

There are quite a few posts here where you can substitute the type of steel for the type of lock.

The Tri-ad lock is the strongest lock out there today, that's fine. Unless it's a unique situation, you will seldom need a lock to be that strong.
AUS8 doesn't perform on par with today's high end steels, that's fine. Sometimes you don't really need to be able cut 100 feet of rope an inch at a time.

 

[stabman]

I've noticed a lot of people suggest lock-backs/Tri-Ad are more susceptible to lint, dirt, sand, etc. I've never seen it or experienced it. I had them in my pocket all the time since I was a kid in the late 80's and in sand and in dirt, painted with Iraqi powder sand when left on a pallet, etc. They always locked up nice and safe regardless. they just see it as a potential problem that doesn't actually happen.

Well gee willikers, it happened to me a few times. A FEW times, and only when I carried them loose in the pocket. A couple of times it was lint, the other time it was sand. Strangely, once I encounter something myself, it leaves the realm of "doesn't actually happen", and enters the realm of sometimes occurs.

Notice I never said a damn thing about carrying lock-backs or triad locked knives clipped; having the knife clipped in the pocket eliminates such issues.

I also work & live where I have a modicum of freedom in carrying knives, which I suppose makes your location worse than mine, if that's how you judge it.

Where I live I have more knife freedom than most of you guys stateside.
Where I had to carry loose in the pocket was one worksite I normally won't be working at.
But you're SOOOO right, I should have said "Screw alla youse PC wussies and your regulations, I'm so hardcore I don't like being able to pay bills and eat."

 

[OrdnanceBubbaUSMC]

'tis true - I like all good value folders.

The only thing that sucks is when you go for better/best steel you have to pay a good amount extra for it. Almost like they expect consumers to believe it cost them more than $40 to produce the folder. I would rather just sharpen up soft 80s'/90's era blade steel until there are several folders like Spyderco's Native with S30V for $50-$60.

 

[stabman]

I'm just batting a thousand.

Baseball metaphor=fail.
Only thing less interesting than watching paint dry is baseball.

 

[stabman]

The only thing that sucks is when you go for better/best steel you have to pay a good amount extra for it.

If you wait a few years, it also gets cheaper.
Remember how expensive S30V knives were a few years back?

 

[OrdnanceBubbaUSMC]

clean your pockets stab I actually threw a big thing of lint from my pajamas that were in the dresser into mine between the blade tang and stop pin - it slowed it down when I flicked it open with my thumb but still locked up 100%

I wouldn't try it with any more on purpose - I remember Sal Glesser saying traditional lock-backs can be damaged like that, not sure if it's same with the Tri-Ad but wouldn't push it.

What happens if you have to cut something out in the rain with a liner-lock/frame-lock though? :yawn:

edit to add: I remember my Paramilitary 6 years ago cost me $160 plus tax - it was in an outdoors store though so a bit more than online I'm sure. I wanted to try more S30V and the original Para was the rage online just like Para 2 is now.

 

[stabman]

clean your pockets stab I actually threw a big thing of lint from my pajamas that were in the dresser into mine between the blade tang and stop pin - it slowed it down when I flicked it open with my thumb but still locked up 100%

I wouldn't try it with any more on purpose - I remember Sal Glesser saying traditional lock-backs can be damaged like that, not sure if it's same with the Tri-Ad but wouldn't push it.

I've had less lint issues since the clothes got washed more often.
Except with jogging pants...I think they're a portal to a parallel lint dimension.

I think the Tri-Ad lock knives should be better for resisting flicking forces due to that handily placed stop pin.

 

[STR]

I've actually had many cases where the lock back was still functioning just fine but there was a small amount of lint in the notch. It was not enough to block the lock from working though and it simply compacted down into the gap created in the design to allow for wear.

I see merit in someone pimping these Cold Steel Triad folders in the future as a lot of folks that have bought these knives are asking me to make scales for their American Lawman or Recon 1 folders only to do them in titanium or if I could make a new blade to fit the knife using a better blade steel. These things are possible as all it would take is copying the shapes to a CAD file or other program and having the parts cut out and then fit them in or put the grind on the blade or regrind the one on it or whatever. I'm not going to do it but I see potential there and it is certainly possible just like what we see going on with Emerson knives. One could discard all but the lock bar and pins and basically rebuild a tremendous custom level folder for less $ I'd think. The textured titanium scale would probably sell well for these as a pop on part much like Rick Hinderer is doing for his folders. People would buy them I guarantee it! That is if the price was reasonable and someone was willing to do the work.

STR

 

[gomipile]

Baseball metaphor=fail.
Only thing less interesting than watching paint dry is baseball.

I'll see your watching paint dry, and raise listening to someone else talk about their diet.