Triad lock vs...

stabman said:
Right, which is why I own knives which match those criteria (other than 440A that is:D).
As for a "better" lock, what makes it better?
Strength?
Ambidextrousness?
Ease of manipulation with one hand?
Reliability when full of sand or lint?

You cannot get a measurable definition of what make a lock "better" all around. People just won't agree on that.
Which is part of why there are different locks.:)

Today I carried a frame-lock knife as I had to carry it deep in the pocket rather than clipped due to a "no weapons" policy (it ain't a weapon, but try explaining that...) A lock-back, or even a Tri-Ad lock could get enough lint in it to make it fail.
Plus, titanium is just plain cool! My Tri-Ad lock knives don't have any titanium in them...does THAT make them worse?
It does if one judges a lock by titanium content.;)
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What makes a lock better? Well, I guess we first need to figure out what a lock does on a knife. Once that concept is grasped, then it is pretty easy to see that strength, reliability, ease of operation, etc. actually are metrics to measure improvement in design and execution.

People won't agree on a better steel, a better handle material, a better flavor of Coca-Cola, a better moustrap, a better anything. It causes people to b*tch about these things when they don't meet their personal criteria, just as people b*tch about the Tri-ad for no real reason.

The locks on my knives all work, I keep my pockets clear and my clothes laundered. I also work & live where I have a modicum of freedom in carrying knives, which I suppose makes your location worse than mine, if that's how you judge it. My Demko custom has a Tri-ad lock, titanium liners, and a titanium pocket clip. I'm just batting a thousand.
 
STR said:
I've seen some of that as we all have. There are those that disagree strongly with the over strike and spine whack parts of the testing and feel these are all manner of bad ideas but I think what gnaws at them is that even though they disagree with the tests they still don't want to carry a knife that they know will likely fail that same test they disagree with and that eats at them.

The Triad is the baddest lock. I stand by that and think there are few that would take the same level of sudden shock abuse that we see Triad locks taking without worry. At the very best the nearest competitors to this can do is to stay working condition with noticed blade play from worn parts. What confuses me is all the nonsense over AUS8 vs going to something with better edge keeping. To do this would surely take away toughness and I don't see it really helping Cold Steel or the models they sell to go to a steel that might get 20 or even 40 more cuts in hemp rope over what they currently use before the blade edge needs touched up. To me its nonsense to suggest a steel as easy to touch back up to biting sharp as AUS8 is which takes me all of five to ten seconds, is a bad steel. For most of us if we use our knives during the day and dull them down you know as well as I do that like most all knife nuts they won't be able to stand even their super blade steel models being less sharp so what do they do? They touch it up and get it back to that biting sharpness ready to go for another day. Most that I know do this daily after a day of use so I ask you. When this is the case what the hell diff does it make what steel it is you use if you are bringing it back up to ready to use shape at the end of each day anyways?



STR
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Every once in a while a breeze of common sense wafts through. Some notice, others don't.
 
STR said:
I've seen some of that as we all have. There are those that disagree strongly with the over strike and spine whack parts of the testing and feel these are all manner of bad ideas but I think what gnaws at them is that even though they disagree with the tests they still don't want to carry a knife that they know will likely fail that same test they disagree with and that eats at them.

The Triad is the baddest lock. I stand by that and think there are few that would take the same level of sudden shock abuse that we see Triad locks taking without worry. At the very best the nearest competitors to this can do is to stay working condition with noticed blade play from worn parts. What confuses me is all the nonsense over AUS8 vs going to something with better edge keeping. To do this would surely take away toughness and I don't see it really helping Cold Steel or the models they sell to go to a steel that might get 20 or even 40 more cuts in hemp rope over what they currently use before the blade edge needs touched up. To me its nonsense to suggest a steel as easy to touch back up to biting sharp as AUS8 is which takes me all of five to ten seconds, is a bad steel. For most of us if we use our knives during the day and dull them down you know as well as I do that like most all knife nuts they won't be able to stand even their super blade steel models being less sharp so what do they do? They touch it up and get it back to that biting sharpness ready to go for another day. Most that I know do this daily after a day of use so I ask you. When this is the case what the hell diff does it make what steel it is you use if you are bringing it back up to ready to use shape at the end of each day anyways?



STR
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Well put, but then again, what the hell difference does extreme lock strength make if we don't ever use the knife in applications that would ever stress their locks to their absolute limits? I don't currently have any knives with Tri-ad locks, and have only ever had one. I could really care less about spine whack tests, because they aren't valid in real-world use for the knives I own. Should a Kershaw Leek have a Tri-ad lock? Would it ever be used to the point where the lock would have to withstand 600 lbs hanging from the blade? The CS knives that have the strongest locks in the world aren't bad, but I feel they are too heavy, too large, difficult to open and close one-handed. And for being advertised as being tougher than any other knives out there, I hear their customer service is not up to par with their claims. I don't see myself ever subjecting a knife to any type of treatment that would warrant me having to give up aesthetics, comfort, accessibility, and quality, for the strongest lock in the world. I just don't need it.

However, if there's folder out there that looks great, feels great in the hand, is easy to open and close one-handed, came with a great warranty, sharpens well, holds its edge while having a tough blade, is made with quality components with excellent fit and finish, and had a Tri-ad lock...I'd be all over it.
 
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gooeytek said:
Should a Kershaw Leek have a Tri-ad lock?

The CS knives that have the strongest locks in the world aren't bad, but I feel they are too heavy, too large, difficult to open and close one-handed.
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The 2.2 oz/3" Counter Point II, 2.5 oz/3" Hold Out III, 2.9 oz/2.75" Mini AK-47, 2.6 oz/2.5" Mini Lawman, 1.7oz/2" Mini Tuff Lite are too heavy and too large? The 3 oz/3" Leek is not?
 
You have to take into account also how many people have to use the customer service - you see people mention problems on $100-$300++ folders all the time that you never hear about with $40-70 Tri-Ad folders. I was looking at a couple of custom folders on here the past few days that are 10x the price of my $38 Voyager with a stonewash that doesn't look as nice with several big scratches. Both the ones I've owned and handled had perfect fit and finish, centered blades with razor sharp factory edges...

I opened up the one I'm keeping for my self - super tight construction, uniform screws with loctite, 4 washers, perfect lock-up with zero blade-play even when half disassembled.

To close with one hand you just press the lock bar and the blade tang stops on your index finger, move your index finger out the way and put your thumb on the thumb stud or side of the blade to close it all the way down - maybe one second of time.
 
Quote: gooeytek; Bold is my answers or questions. Thanks

Well put, but then again, what the hell difference does extreme lock strength make if we don't ever use the knife in applications that would ever stress their locks to their absolute limits? It doesn't make any difference. Don't believe I suggested that it did. The question was the Triad vs? and I simply state that I feel it is the strongest most reliable of the lock types we've seen to date since the question came up.

I don't currently have any knives with Tri-ad locks, and have only ever had one. I could really care less about spine whack tests, because they aren't valid in real-world use for the knives I own. Should a Kershaw Leek have a Tri-ad lock? Are you asking me? I never suggested this!

Would it ever be used to the point where the lock would have to withstand 600 lbs hanging from the blade? The CS knives that have the strongest locks in the world aren't bad, but I feel they are too heavy, too large, difficult to open and close one-handed. I'd say here, how can you possibly know they are difficult to open, heavy or anything else if you only owned one Triad lock? BTW- My Mini AK47 opens as easy as any other folder I own. Waves easier than a lot of my Emerson or Spyderco models for that matter, but of course that could be my own custom thumb plate there. I made it wider with a flare.

And for being advertised as being tougher than any other knives out there, I hear their customer service is not up to par with their claims. I don't see myself ever subjecting a knife to any type of treatment that would warrant me having to give up aesthetics, comfort, accessibility, and quality, for the strongest lock in the world. I just don't need it. All these things are subjective as many find they are quite pleasing but I'd say you are not alone. Many feel the Cold Steel line up appeals to the mall ninja types and bikers and perhaps they do. I think the reason I like the American Lawman the most is due to it being more along traditional lines and it has a choil. I really find it to be a great all around knife personally. With me being in my, um hum, 50's I do wish Cold Steel had a few more 'more traditional looking' offerings so I agree with you on styling and aesthetics for most of their folders.

However, if there's folder out there that looks great, feels great in the hand, is easy to open and close one-handed, came with a great warranty, sharpens well, holds its edge while having a tough blade, is made with quality components with excellent fit and finish, and had a Tri-ad lock...I'd be all over it.

Its out there. I have one. Its called the AD10 custom by Andrew Demko. Its the best custom knife I've ever purchased from any maker on planet earth and I have bought more than a handful from all manner of makers all over the planet to compare it to. Its one thing to make a frame or liner lock and that alone requires a great deal of skill but when you evolve as a maker and start doing your own custom lockbacks to this level or caliper it really is above and beyond for skill set and discipline to come up with a creation like this. Its the earmarks of a great maker that I look for even more great things from down the road.

STR
 

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STR, I love the Demko customs myself, and I acknowledge Thrill's sweet Demko custom earlier. I guess I meant to say production knives, since that is what we're mostly talking about here.

As for all those smaller knives with the Tri-ad lock, I'd still find them to be less accessible as far as opening and closing one-handed, and definitely much, much thicker than other knives of that size. I wasn't comfortable with deploying and closing the American Lawman that I had one-handed, and if it were smaller, I doubt it would be any easier. Not even going into how they look. To each his/her own though.
 
gooeytek said:
As for all those smaller knives with the Tri-ad lock, I'd still find them to be less accessible as far as opening and closing one-handed, and definitely much, much thicker than other knives of that size.
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Look how thin this one is, about .3 inches http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/856686-Cold-Steel-Hold-Out-III-%283%29

3" blade, 3 7/8" handle and only weighs 2.5 oz but can hold about double the weight of a Hogue EX-01 and most other heavy-duty knives of other designs that are 5-7 ounces and twice as thick. Compare it to the size of your ZT 0350.
 
gooeytek said:
As for all those smaller knives with the Tri-ad lock, I'd still find them to be less accessible as far as opening and closing one-handed, and definitely much, much thicker than other knives of that size. I wasn't comfortable with deploying and closing the American Lawman that I had one-handed, and if it were smaller, I doubt it would be any easier. Not even going into how they look. To each his/her own though.
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Much, Much thicker than what? The blades are all 3 mm thick (including the medium Voyager, 3.1 oz/3") with the Tuff Lite at 2.5 and the Counter Point at 3.5. Are they thicker than a Delica 4? a mini Griptilian? a Strider PT? a Kershaw Clash? Have you handled any of them other than that full sized Lawman? Are you even bothering to consider them against other "tactical" folders?
 
hardheart said:
Much, Much thicker than what? The blades are all 3 mm thick (including the medium Voyager, 3.1 oz/3") with the Tuff Lite at 2.5 and the Counter Point at 3.5. Are they thicker than a Delica 4? a mini Griptilian? a Strider PT? a Kershaw Clash? Have you handled any of them other than that full sized Lawman? Are you even bothering to consider them against other "tactical" folders?
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Handles are much, much thicker. For many people, uncomfortably so. This includes me.
 
Which handles, and what constitutes "much, much"? Linerless G10 scales and liners nested in grivory are somehow much, much thicker than the same thing on other knives, or on knives where the liners are not nested.

If you want to complain about the AUS8, the short warranty, the customer service, etc., have at it. They are not the best company around. But don't make stuff up.
 
To realize how big of a difference there is even with the small, thin ones -

Spyderco's numbers - 4.2 ounce Spyderco Military 137lbs./inch for it's blade length or about 550lbs./inch

Demko video - 2.5 ounce Cold Steel Hold-Out III over 438lbs./inch for it's blade length or over 1294lbs./inch

So where the Hold-Out III is holding 345lbs. 3.75 inches away from the pivot the Millie would make it to about 147lbs.

It is thinner than the Military, Endura, Delica, Dragonfly, etc. and weighs the same as a Delica.
 
Why are we still arguing about the strength of the Tri-ad lock? I think it's pretty clear that it outperforms any other folder lock out there in terms of how much it will take before it fails. However, like many here, I don't find the need for a lock to be that strong. So with regards to the title of the original post, there is no other stronger folder lock. It's a shame that the knives that the lock is available in, don't appeal to me. I have a couple of CS fixed blades and a khukri which I use pretty hard, but I feel their folder aesthetics just detract from what is inherently a great lock design. Like I said, to each his/her own.
 
like em sharp said:
Handles are much, much thicker. For many people, uncomfortably so. This includes me.
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I have a lawman, a full size Griptilian, and an Endura. the AL is a bit thicker than the Endura and less so than the Griptilian. It has (IMHO) the best ergos of the three and I have average sized hands.
 
If you don't like the designs, that's fine. But they do make lite knives, and the do make thin handled knives, and they do make FFG bladed knives.

I still have a feeling that even if they offered a more traditional design, they'd still get bashed. But, I could be wrong.

Side note:
I was handling a Recon-1 at a local shop last week, and it's very close in thickness to an Endura-4. Opens and closed no differently.
 
ThePharce said:
I have a lawman, a full size Griptilian, and an Endura. the AL is a bit thicker than the Endura and less so than the Griptilian. It has (IMHO) the best ergos of the three and I have average sized hands.
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The handles on the Lawman/Mini Lawman are about 50% thicker than the Endura/Delica. It's not "a bit thicker". I find it incredibly uncomfortable, both in hand and in pocket. I really don't care if I can climb trees using the Mini Lawman because it's such a strong knife, I'm never going to do it and you're never going to do it. It's not a worthwhile tradeoff to me, and it seems that way to a couple other people in this thread as well.
 
like em sharp said:
The handles on the Lawman/Mini Lawman are about 50% thicker than the Endura/Delica. It's not "a bit thicker". I find it incredibly uncomfortable, both in hand and in pocket. I really don't care if I can climb trees using the Mini Lawman because it's such a strong knife, I'm never going to do it and you're never going to do it. It's not a worthwhile tradeoff to me, and it seems that way to a couple other people in this thread as well.
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Endura 4 is .43 inches thick and Lawman is .51 inches thick - 8/100ths of an inch difference.

Thicker is better if you are using a knife for work and not wearing thick gloves. I like my Large Voyager being .64 inches.
 
Delica 4 is .394, 50% thicker would be .591, not even with the larger AL vs the smaller Delica is there a 50% difference. I don't have a mini lawman or mini ak any longer to compare
 
OrdnanceBubbaUSMC said:
Endura 4 is .43 inches thick and Lawman is .51 inches thick - 8/100ths of an inch difference.

Thicker is better if you are using a knife for work and not wearing thick gloves. I like my Large Voyager being .64 inches.
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and yes, the difference of LESS THAN 1/10th of an inch is a 'bit thicker'. Again, less thick than a Griptilian.
 
For people complaining about "mall ninjas", pick up a Hold Out II or III! It doesn't get any more tradtional than a knife that's been in use in use for centuries in gaelic and norse communities.

And if that doesn't do it for you, if you feel you need a mall ninja grip to be safe or whatever, then pick up a Voyager... or buy a Lawman and strip the teflon coating. There ARE options.

And it's funny to me that some would shy away from Cold Steel products just because they've seen Lynn Thompson do his "thing" on account of it being mall ninja:ish, but then totally ignoring that this very shallow judgement essentially makes them no better than teenage girls craving Chanel or Versace. What an odd, odd thing to do for a grown ass man. Do you paint your fingernails to match the G10 as well? Ffs... :D


It's obvious from some of the stuff certain people are writing that they've never held a Cold Steel and are judging it at face value. If it's not too thick then the lock will fail from some pocket lint or be so hard to open it takes a vise and two hands to do it. It's beyond silly and I don't see how anyone could take it seriously. :thumbdn:
 
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